NYCC 2017 art pics 1 1

[SquareChaos]

3 hours ago, Mr. Machismo said:

It was brilliant, yes. This is my understanding, and of course speculative. I'll preface this by saying I had a proxy go for me, and while I learned a lot, did not physically attend.

They contacted an existing pool of SGM buyers, inviting them to a "VIP", "exclusive" event. The purpose: test the market, see just how far they can push prices while sustaining sales.

About 18 guests showed up, half buyers and half observers/+1s. There were only 14 pieces – 5 buy it now and 9 to silent auction. This resulted in a highly-biased buying pool (existing SGM collectors) pitted against one another for a limited number of pages from the first issue.

The BIN prices ranged from $2400-$5000 for panel pages. Two sold – the $5000 one and a $3200 one. With the exception of the $3200 page, the rest were essentially talking-head pages (no costumes, heavy dialogue.) The remaining auction pages went up, 9 in all, closing one-at-a-time in 5 minute increments. The lowest starting bid was two pages at $1800, the highest starting bid was two variant covers at $10,000. Everything sold above starting bids. Average panel page price exceeded $3K. No splashes available that night.

The pricing was bullish. If it was so high that no one bought – and that was a very real possibility – that would look pretty darn bad for sales. But, since there was only a small handful of buyers there, they could adjust before presenting to the wider market with no skin off their back.

They tested in a highly-biased, fast-paced "you vs. me" environment with limited supply and high demand. Had they offered it publicly, people could've seen the prices, gasped, walked away, and that would set the tone. Instead, they can now boast they've sold out of most all pages, and at steep prices, pricing future pages accordingly.

All that said, I'm not sure that was an accurate test. Existing SGM collectors only have so much budget, a number of whom were possibly the most interested (highly speculative) may now have a page or two, and there's ~70-80 more pages to come (Sean is keeping half of each issue, 8 issues total.) I'm not sure the kind of pricing they've settled on can be sustained, so it'll be very interesting to watch. Pages can either sit, they can begin to process why this happened, given their highly-biased testing pool, and mark down accordingly...or the initial hype of the first page sell-out could drive sales, and thus prices, up.

They've pretty much pulled off Capullo pricing with the attached sales, and while even Capullo's sold out of all his good [Court] splashes at absurd pricing, there's still a number of panel pages available. Sean is even selling the B and C-rated panel pages at 2-3K+. AND he's doing it AS the issues release, with a possibility it could all fall apart, where as Capullo at least had the backing of his work being a modern classic.

Sucks as a buyer, but I respect Sean and his rep's strategic and marketing abilities.

 

After watching Capullo do what he has done with his art, I predicted that this is the likely future. I mean... not that pieces haven't always been offered first to the bigger players, but I bet it becomes more formal...

If one artist can do it, others will think 'why not me?'

[RabidFerret]

5 hours ago, BCarter27 said:

Was it? Did all the people who could afford it know about the auction? If not, then money was left on the table.

I think exclusivity works in fixed-priced gallery sales when you are trying to get your buyers to stretch upward, but with auctions it is all about exposure.

Thoughts?

As a fan of Sean's work who reached out multiple times to the art sales team about getting pages I had zero idea there was a 'secret auction'.

Instead I kept being told 'we want to be fair to everyone, we don't want to presell or reserve any pages, we want everyone to have a shot'...but apparently not.

And that's not even touching on the pricing,  where it's $2-3k for a Commissioner Gordon panel page? Ouch! The last two books SGM did were in the $500-700/page for the central characters. A DPS would be in the $2-3k range. A Gordon-like page would likely be $300-400. So this is a huge markup where it feels like they believed their own hype too much.

The first issue was decent, but it's certainly no groundbreaking Dark Knight or Year One.

Sure, I want the artist to maximize the money they get, but this felt like a weird and alienating approach...

[SquareChaos]

I would have to say 'get used to it.' If they think they are in the position to make a big score, they'll go after it. The timing may never be right again, and right now they've seen some really high profile, high cost modern work evoke interest from a number of people.

[Sideshow Bob]

1 hour ago, RabidFerret said:

As a fan of Sean's work who reached out multiple times to the art sales team about getting pages I had zero idea there was a 'secret auction'.

Instead I kept being told 'we want to be fair to everyone, we don't want to presell or reserve any pages, we want everyone to have a shot'...but apparently not.

And that's not even touching on the pricing,  where it's $2-3k for a Commissioner Gordon panel page? Ouch! The last two books SGM did were in the $500-700/page for the central characters. A DPS would be in the $2-3k range. A Gordon-like page would likely be $300-400. So this is a huge markup where it feels like they believed their own hype too much.

The first issue was decent, but it's certainly no groundbreaking Dark Knight or Year One.

Sure, I want the artist to maximize the money they get, but this felt like a weird and alienating approach...

The Sean Murphy work you're comparing to is The Wake, Punk Rock Jesus, Chrononauts, and Tokyo Ghost. This is Batman, even if its an Elseworlds Batman. That's a different level of pricing entirely. 

[RabidFerret]

1 hour ago, Sideshow Bob said:

The Sean Murphy work you're comparing to is The Wake, Punk Rock Jesus, Chrononauts, and Tokyo Ghost. This is Batman, even if its an Elseworlds Batman. That's a different level of pricing entirely. 

Oh sure, of course Batman deserves a premium - but what is that 'Batman premium'?

A markup of 4-5x seems high but understandable given the character.

But per my Gordon example and the other pricing we've seen, this seems closer to 8-10x+.

For perspective, the floor for White Knight seems to be higher than the floor for Jim Lee Hush pages that are 15 years old. That seems a bit presumptuous.

Edited October 11, 2017 by RabidFerret

[Mr. Machismo]

As someone purchasing both Hush and White Knight artwork, they are absolutely not on par. Hush is still a multiple of what White Knight costs, rightfully so. 

As Bob said, the Batman factor justifies even an 8-10x multiple vs Indy comics. Just the way it is. 

And Bob, I know you gots stuffs! I’m waiting to see it! Me thinks a certain Joker cover, perhaps?  

[RabidFerret]

1 hour ago, Mr. Machismo said:

As someone purchasing both Hush and White Knight artwork, they are absolutely not on par.

I didn't say they were on par. I said the floor for WK is higher.

Here are 3 low end Hush pages that sold in the last year on Heritage, all for less than a $2400 Gordon page from WK:

$1673 - https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jim-lee-batman-609-hush-story-page-20-original-art-dc-2003-/a/7137-93529.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

$2091 - https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jim-lee-batman-609-hush-story-page-19-original-art-dc-2003-/a/7137-93528.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

$1015 - https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jim-lee-and-scott-williams-batman-610-hush-chapter-3-story-page-8-original-art-dc-2003-/a/121613-14049.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

In addition, I thought I read the WK Joker in the library splash sold for $8k, and have seen photos of the Mr. Freeze splash priced at $8k. Here's what sold in that range from Hush:

$9560 - https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jim-lee-and-scott-williams-batman-615-hush-chapter-8-the-dead-story-page-19-nightwing-original-art-dc-2003-/a/7166-92021.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

$8365 - https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jim-lee-and-scott-williams-batman-612-hush-chapter-5-the-battle-page-13-superman-original-art-dc-2005-/a/7124-92157.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

$9261 - https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jim-lee-and-scott-williams-batman-612-hush-chapter-5-the-battle-page-12-original-art-dc-2005-/a/7124-92156.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

I'm sorry, but an out of costume Joker in a dark library or a Mr. Freeze splash is not at the same level as Lee/Williams Hush of Batman and Superman battling it out.

1 hour ago, Mr. Machismo said:

Hush is still a multiple of what White Knight costs, rightfully so. 

On the highest end pieces I don't doubt that, but from what we've seen so far WK is incredibly pricey for it's first month of release.

Edited October 11, 2017 by RabidFerret

[BCarter27]

7 minutes ago, RabidFerret said:

we know the WK Joker in the library splash sold for $8k.

This is the page you mean?

[RabidFerret]

3 minutes ago, BCarter27 said:

This is the page you mean?

Yes, that was the page I meant...but to be honest now I'm not sure where I heard/read the $8k price. Twitter? Or maybe I'm mistaken and was confusing it with the Mr Freeze splash priced at $8k. 

[Mr. Machismo]

Ah. Well, if you want to base the floor on ~13 pieces sold, yes.  

That library page was not 8k. Out of respect for the buyer I won’t disclose price, but it was not cheap. That said, it was his favourite page and he was happy to pay what he did. Sean actually didn’t want to post that for sale, but his rep convinced him and priced it accordingly, and it surprisingly sold. Not sure why he wouldn’t just hold it back like the other half of the pages. It was posted to CAF today.

Agreed, WK prices are tremendously high, especially since sales started two days after release. Trust me, I’m not arguing the absurdity of the prices. I’m personally fine paying what I did because I am completely floored by the art — it’s tremendous. I loved the first issue and read it multiple times in a short period, which I’ve never done, and have plenty of faith in the rest of the story. It’s hitting all the right notes [for ME], and barring a horrible ending, I believe this will cement itself as a classic in due time.

Those Bat/Supes Hush pages would go for quite a bit more now, IMO. Hasn’t been long, but based on some other recent sales I’ve seen, I’m confident of that.

I own the Freeze splash but don’t like to publicly disclose purchase prices of anything I own. Of course I’m biased, but I have yet to see a Freeze page as good as this. It’s oozing with emotion and is a tremendous representation of Freeze, harkening Heart of Ice upon viewing. Freeze is often under utilized, so I’m pleased to hear Sean mention how important a role he plays in WK. 

Anyhow, good discussion and all valid points. Though I see we’ve derailed the thread a bit ? 

Edited October 11, 2017 by Mr. Machismo

[SquareChaos]

It seems very early to have any opinion on the potential for 'classic' that this story has. I mean, maybe that will end up being the case, but it is issue #1.

 

The thing I've gotten most out of this thread is a strong curiosity around which artist will try to do this next. Also, if successful in this endeavor, does it do anything to Sean's existing body of work? I personally think Tokyo Ghost still looks like his most visibly interesting work, but Batman being Batman...

[RabidFerret]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Machismo said:

Ah. Well, if you want to base the floor on ~13 pieces sold, yes.  

That library page was not 8k. Out of respect for the buyer I won’t disclose price, but it was not cheap. That said, it was his favourite page and he was happy to pay what he did. Sean actually didn’t want to post that for sale, but his rep convinced him and priced it accordingly, and it surprisingly sold. Not sure why he wouldn’t just hold it back like the other half of the pages. It was posted to CAF today.

Agreed, WK prices are tremendously high, especially since sales started two days after release. Trust me, I’m not arguing the absurdity of the prices. I’m personally fine paying what I did because I am completely floored by the art — it’s tremendous. I loved the first issue and read it multiple times in a short period, which I’ve never done, and have plenty of faith in the rest of the story. It’s hitting all the right notes [for ME], and barring a horrible ending, I believe this will cement itself as a classic in due time.

Those Bat/Supes Hush pages would go for quite a bit more now, IMO. Hasn’t been long, but based on some other recent sales I’ve seen, I’m confident of that.

I own the Freeze splash but don’t like to publicly disclose purchase prices of anything I own. Of course I’m biased, but I have yet to see a Freeze page as good as this. It’s oozing with emotion and is a tremendous representation of Freeze, harkening Heart of Ice upon viewing. Freeze is often under utilized, so I’m pleased to hear Sean mention how important a role he plays in WK. 

Anyhow, good discussion and all valid points. Though I see we’ve derailed the thread a bit ? 

My bad on the Joker piece! Apologies. It is a gorgeous piece, as is the Freeze. I'm certainly not knocking the art, which I also love:)

It will be interesting to see how quickly the art moves once the larger public gets access to it and the rest of the series continues to roll out.

Hopefully the series finishes strong

Congrats again on the Freeze!

[Mr. Machismo]

Yeah, I’m watching closely re: public offering. It’ll be interesting at the very least.

And yes, it’s absurd and impossible to call it a classic at this point, I’m just saying I strongly believe in the direction it’s going, and the art is ridiculously good. 

Edited October 11, 2017 by Mr. Machismo

[Mr. Machismo]

Here's first 2/4 pages posted to CAF, if interested:

http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1427972

http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1427973

[Comic Art Factory]

I'm more than surprised by this way of doing business. and I disagree on so many things mentioned here. Talking about strategy, really ? Even the price multiplication factor. And I love Sean Murphy's work. I've enjoyed it since Joe the Barbarian went out.  And collected his art since then.

First of all, not so many people were invited to this 'private auction". Not going into details, but I don't see any rep action here, as nearly all previous buyers of Sean Murphy art did not know about an auction (and some of them bought a lot when he was repped by Essential Sequential), mostly based on a very recent pool of buyers. Some people who just bought a 300 USD page through his actual website got an invite while people having bought covers in the past didn't even know about the event.

But even considering this flaw, with the word of mouth among collectors, it should have been way more people there actively looking to buy. But who's interested in silent auctions for a book just released ?  

I see absolutely no marketing there. No long-term vision. No thinking ahead. Just fast cash.

This is not the way of consolidating trust and business with previous customers.

Just making a buzz by putting people vs one another. And losing people interested in his art by setting abusive prices. Sorry, but sometimes the ego is your enemy. You could felt on many Twitter posts that something went wrong when comparing to Miller before even releasing a single issue. And for buyers too, ego can be your worst enemy. 

In my opinion, this is not the way to build. This is just gambling. This is a house of cards. 

Taking a chance to cut yourself from your previous customer base. Who could very possibly lose interest in the art and put it back on the market as they will not be able to buy further pages, or just wait for new customers to offer aggressive prices. This is not strategy at all.  

Edited October 11, 2017 by Comic Art Factory

[Khazano]

I am blissfully ignorant of most artists/artwork/stories that have come out in the last five years, so this is a genuine query on my part. 

Can someone explain to me what body of work this artist has done prior to this Batman comic to warrant these kind of numbers? Also, for an elseworld story, why this is being SO highly regarded?  The money being quoted in these threads for these WK pages is absurd. So Im really trying to understand the mentality...  Or is it just that deadly combination of hype and pretty pictures warranting these prices?

As for how these pages were sold... I think that was brilliant on the reps part. But thats easy for me to say when Im no longer buying current artwork. 

[Khazano]

45 minutes ago, Comic Art Factory said:

 

First of all, not so many people were invited to this 'private auction". Not going into details, but I don't see any rep action here, as nearly all previous buyers of Sean Murphy art did not know about an auction (and some of them bought a lot when he was repped by Essential Sequential), mostly based on a very recent pool of buyers. Some people who just bought a 300 USD page through his actual website got an invite while people having bought covers in the past didn't even know about the event.

 

Odds are most of the people invited weren't a group of devoted SM collectors, and more likely a group of collectors who are known to pay high asking prices.  

Edited October 11, 2017 by Khazano

[Mr. Machismo]

Valid points, @Comic Art Factory, and an interesting opposing view.

@Khazano I believe SGM is most well known for his indy work. The Wake, Chrononauts, Tokyo Ghost, etc. He's worked with some tremendous writer, and as an incredibly visual story teller himself, as a track-record of exceptional books.

[Mr. Machismo]

SGM posted some art for sale just now, as well as about half of the pages that sold along with prices. Not sure why half. http://seanmurphyart.bigcartel.com/category/batman?page=1

[NinjaSealed]

23 minutes ago, Mr. Machismo said:

SGM posted some art for sale just now, as well as about half of the pages that sold along with prices. Not sure why half. http://seanmurphyart.bigcartel.com/category/batman?page=1

If those are the prices paid for the pieces at NYCC they are not THAT crazy.

a deal compared to what they are asking for the pages they listed for sale today.