Cgc and brittle pages 1 1

[rjpb]

7 hours ago, TheFifthHorseman said:

+1

I love the look of mylites2. Add in a piece of microchamber and you're probably good to go.

I do love slabs for the restoration detection though. Also when it comes to resale it seems a CGC slab is a wise investment.

I'll "chip" in on the PQ issue...I think a more specific brittleness designation is a brilliant idea. PQ vs PColor...is it possible to have a WHITE PAGES BRITTLE???!?!?

I've seen SB pages that were clearly OW otherwise.

[Brian48]

I think including the grader's notes on the back would be enough to resolve this. 

[Bomber-Bob]

18 minutes ago, Brian48 said:

I think including the grader's notes on the back would be enough to resolve this. 

That would cause other problems. Listing flaws on the label would be the 'kiss of death' for many books.

[Zolnerowich]

9 hours ago, szavisca said:

Hard to imagine CGC giving up the relatively effort free cash cow of having people pay extra to get the graders notes... I've caved in and forked out the 5-10$ for expensive (for me) books I was bidding on 3 or 4 times now.  I imagine they make a fair amount off this.

What bugs me is that even when I fork out the dollars to get the CGC grading notes, frequently the notes are slim and lacking details, making it impossible to know why the book was graded 4.0, 2.0, SB, etc., and what defects drove down the grade. It is unclear to me why there is so little transparency in providing informative grading notes. Is it too much work for the grader to justify how they arrived at the grade and to type out the notes? Especially if people are paying for this information.

If this issue can’t be addressed, it’s not clear to me that the subtle differences in degree of brittle will be addressed either. 

Grading transparency is one thing that Voldemort does well, and for free, whether or not one agrees with the actual grade. 

[lou_fine]

On 10/11/2017 at 11:41 AM, bluechip said:

I had a book like that, with one small corner that was off white and supple everywhere but one corner, which was obviously exposed in storage, and ended up chipped away, so it was said to have "brittle pages."

 

On 10/12/2017 at 8:36 AM, rjpb said:

CGC doesn't seem to acknowledge cover brittleness, and this is the frequently the norm in the hobby, but any comic with chips out of the cover, that don't look like they were the result of handling tears or worn creases, is by definition slightly brittle at least.

And yet at the same time, we see so many cases with the early SA Marvel books such as AF 15 with extensive Marvel chipping down the entire right edge of the book, and yet CGC still give them grades into the 6's and 7's.

Whenever I see a book with Marvel chipping, I personally feel that it renders the assigned grade to be absolutely meaningless.  Especially when it's totally absurd to see a book with a tiny corner of the cover chipped away come back as a CGC 2.0 graded book, while an early SA Marvel book with the entire right edge chipped away come back as a CGC 6.0 graded book. 

Edited October 14, 2017 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

15 hours ago, Zolnerowich said:

What bugs me is that even when I fork out the dollars to get the CGC grading notes, frequently the notes are slim and lacking details, making it impossible to know why the book was graded 4.0, 2.0, SB, etc., and what defects drove down the grade.

In one of the very few times that I did purchased the CGC grading notes, I was absolutely surprised that the paid grading notes was nothing more than a shortened and abbreviated version of the notes that was a;ready on the CGC label itself.  

Talk about paying for nothing in this particular case.   

[gino2paulus2]

 this thread. I thought this scale thing was a great idea!! Talking about brittle books can always be a “delicate” subject!! I often find examples when perusing books that intrigue me and this is no exception. Full disclosure this is Not my book in fact it is being sold by one of my favorite sellers who I have bought from many times and always is coming up with super tough books!! So from the looks of things this book was originally sold as a CGC brittle incomplete with noted chips in the bottom of the case along with a coverless copy... then (and for good reason because it’s a match made in heaven and looks better) married together but now magically has lost its brittle designation altogether? It was my understanding that if just part of the book was brittle it would get a SB designation. We are talking big money on some these books folks and I have heard COUNTLESS times, “I avoid brittle books like the plague” or that brittle books should command a massive discount on a book. What do you do in examples likes this? I am honestly curious as it’s rather inconsistent and this scale with some notes could be beneficial. Cover brittle, pages C-OW? Although in this case the spine in the pic looks more delicate than some of the books I have subbed that came back SB but could just be tears too hard to tell from just a pic...Again not knocking this particular book i may even make a run at it just bringing up issues I think need to be discussed that I am intrigued about...

Edited to add: I think the following post from Mr Ludy Luck just made me understand this scenario a bitter as you can see from post after his.

 

Edited December 30, 2017 by gino2paulus2

[Mr. Lady Luck]

I've always assumed that the page quality refers to the pages inside the comic, and not the cover. Since covers are a thicker and more durable paper stock, it makes sense that many books have brittle or SB pages on the inside with covers that are still holding up to cream/off-white.

 

[gino2paulus2]

18 minutes ago, Mr. Lady Luck said:

I've always assumed that the page quality refers to the pages inside the comic, and not the cover. Since covers are a thicker and more durable paper stock, it makes sense that many books have brittle or SB pages on the inside with covers that are still holding up to cream/off-white.

 

You may have something there then my friend. So in the example that I listed maybe it was just the pages on the inside of the slabbed 0.5 that were brittle and since the cover was not and it was married with the raw copy that wasn't brittle and now we have get a complete C-OW copy!! Cool!!

Edited December 30, 2017 by gino2paulus2

[Sqeggs]

2 hours ago, Mr. Lady Luck said:

I've always assumed that the page quality refers to the pages inside the comic, and not the cover. Since covers are a thicker and more durable paper stock, it makes sense that many books have brittle or SB pages on the inside with covers that are still holding up to cream/off-white.

 

Looks like there may be a bit of flaking to both cover and pages in the lower left corner.  Still a nice looking book, though. 

[Sqeggs]

On 10/13/2017 at 10:15 PM, Zolnerowich said:

What bugs me is that even when I fork out the dollars to get the CGC grading notes, frequently the notes are slim and lacking details, making it impossible to know why the book was graded 4.0, 2.0, SB, etc., and what defects drove down the grade. It is unclear to me why there is so little transparency in providing informative grading notes. Is it too much work for the grader to justify how they arrived at the grade and to type out the notes? Especially if people are paying for this information.

If this issue can’t be addressed, it’s not clear to me that the subtle differences in degree of brittle will be addressed either. 

Grading transparency is one thing that Voldemort does well, and for free, whether or not one agrees with the actual grade. 

Interesting.  I hadn't realized that their grading notes were more complete (they could hardly be less complete than CGC's, though!).

Volume of books processed probably has something to do with it.  With much higher volume, the CGC graders are probably under more pressure to turn the books around.  I would guess lowering TATs trumps providing more extensive notes.

[Artboy99]

I like the idea of a brittleness scale I also would like to see a graphic that indicates where the brittleness is on the label. The back of the label could be revised and on the back include:

-Graders notes

-Any other important information such as the proposed brittleness graphic with areas of brittleness indicated.

[Primetime]

Great topic that CGC should detail more at some point on their labels. A brittleness (or even whiteness) scale for covers and Interior pages seems inevitable and necessary given the high price points that books continue to trend towards. It would be a lot more info printed on the labels but it would help buyers know what they are getting on a slabbed book. I once got a Tec 8 from Gator and we agreed that the pages were 99% cr/ow but for one tiny area on one page that was a little delicate..but CGC gave it slightly brittles pages which was not really telling the whole story. 

[gino2paulus2]

5 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

Interesting.  I hadn't realized that their grading notes were more complete (they could hardly be less complete than CGC's, though!).

Volume of books processed probably has something to do with it.  With much higher volume, the CGC graders are probably under more pressure to turn the books around.  I would guess lowering TATs trumps providing more extensive notes.

 

4 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

I like the idea of a brittleness scale I also would like to see a graphic that indicates where the brittleness is on the label. The back of the label could be revised and on the back include:

-Graders notes

-Any other important information such as the proposed brittleness graphic with areas of brittleness indicated.

 

3 hours ago, Primetime said:

Great topic that CGC should detail more at some point on their labels. A brittleness (or even whiteness) scale for covers and Interior pages seems inevitable and necessary given the high price points that books continue to trend towards. It would be a lot more info printed on the labels but it would help buyers know what they are getting on a slabbed book. I once got a Tec 8 from Gator and we agreed that the pages were 99% cr/ow but for one tiny area on one page that was a little delicate..but CGC gave it slightly brittles pages which was not really telling the whole story. 

yes to all of the above!!