How cheap are OA collectors? 2 2

[Twanj]

1 hour ago, MYNAMEISLEGION said:

number of views I never put much stock in- so even when Jim D had it all rigged to he got a gazillion views and Bill had to change it all as a result- I din't care all that much, but as a secondary consequence, fewer views meant fewer comments, and I find those much more illuminating and indicative of a particular piece of arts popularity - and those comments can spark all sorts of conversations, new information, deals, new friends, and maybe a few enemies.

I REALLY wish that CAF didn't inflate the comment count when you respond to a comment- I actually refrain from doing that so I don't get accused of inflating the number of comments on a piece, but I would participate more, and interact more with other CAF members if that was an option.

Sounds like a reasonable feature request: Restrict comment count to not include owner.

[Panelfan1]

On 04/11/2017 at 9:32 AM, MYNAMEISLEGION said:

number of views I never put much stock in- so even when Jim D had it all rigged to he got a gazillion views and Bill had to change it all as a result- I din't care all that much, but as a secondary consequence, fewer views meant fewer comments, and I find those much more illuminating and indicative of a particular piece of arts popularity - and those comments can spark all sorts of conversations, new information, deals, new friends, and maybe a few enemies.

I REALLY wish that CAF didn't inflate the comment count when you respond to a comment- I actually refrain from doing that so I don't get accused of inflating the number of comments on a piece, but I would participate more, and interact more with other CAF members if that was an option.

What is the objection folks have to comment counts?  The comment area is a great space for more conversation about the art.  I sometimes ask a question in the comments and love getting a response there from the owner

Now anyone that comes across that art with the same question in mind has the answer.

At the same time, If the comments back are just 'thank you' - well thats just polite and how can anyone truly object to manners?

Edited November 9, 2017 by Panelfan1

[eewwnuk]

I typically leave questions in the caf mailbox if I'm curious about something.  seems like that's the more appropriate venue to  have a conversation rather than the comments section. 

[PhilipB2k17]

I just wanted to update everyone that Bill Cox worked with me to figure out why I was being blocked from the CAF, and its network of sites. He was able to diagnose and correct the problem. I want to publicly thank Bill for doing that.

Edited November 9, 2017 by PhilipB2k17

[PhilipB2k17]

On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 8:17 PM, Bill Cox said:

The only time CAF had a decline was a few years back when the CAF site was cloned for EU related comic art. Certain countries no longer come to CAF like they used to.  Some gallery owners closed their galleries to move under their umbrella. It was disappointing but there wasn't anything that could be done about it. Traffic has been the same for over two years and we still get over 40 new registrations every day. The same amount of art is posted every day. 

And I do think FB is the other main culprit. People spend a lot of their available time on the internet there, so it leaves less time to hang out on CAF. But FB is also one of the single biggest referrers to the site after Google, so it's a blessing and a curse at the same time.

Out of curiosity, Bill, how many "unique" registrations would you say there are on CAF? It would help give us an idea of how many serious OA collectors are out there, As I expect a pretty significant portion of them have a CAF gallery, or are registered to the site. (40%? 50%? 60%).

[JadeGiant]

2 hours ago, Panelfan1 said:

What is the objection folks have to comment counts?  The comment area is a great space for more conversation about the art.  I sometimes ask a question in the comments and love getting a response there from the owner

Now anyone that comes across that art with the same question in mind has the answer.

At the same time, If the comments back are just 'thank you' - well thats just polite and how can anyone truly object to manners?

Completely agree about comments. I struggled with this early on as I would hear a lot of comments around when it is appropriate and not to comment. It never made sense and it still doesn’t. The sanctity of comments is somewhat of a sacred cow among many early CAF adopters from what I have gathered – maybe it is just old school vs. new school thinking.

[Panelfan1]

You can go on caf and count the members .  It would only take a bit of work if you wanted to know.  I thought about doing this - but decided I was too lazy.

[Panelfan1]

2 hours ago, eewwnuk said:

I typically leave questions in the caf mailbox if I'm curious about something.  seems like that's the more appropriate venue to  have a conversation rather than the comments section. 

I agree when its a private issue - but if its not - the comments area works for me.  

Would be genuinely curious your own take on comments. Should it be resreved for praise? If so why? Is comment count a measure of a piece of arts worth?

Saying that because people usually dont comment to say negative stuff such as:

"That art sucks." 

Or "you overpaid" 

Or other such rude comments.

Again - just curious.

[Carlo M]

I personally would like to see 1) more elaborate comments as opposed to just a couple of adjectives (there is the "Like" function for that), and 2) more balanced comments.  I am not saying people should feel entitled to freely talk one piece down.  But within a positive comment I would not mind a qualification (for example, "great layouts, but the backgrounds could be more detailed"; or "maybe this other inking style would have been more suited for this particular piece".

 When I posted my Byrne Galactus page from FF, I highlighted in the description the fact that it was in marker, and solicited comments on it.  A few CAFers picked up on it, and that was precisely the point.

Carlo

[JadeGiant]

I enjoy most comments really. It could be a "great piece" or "baller" and I enjoy reading them. Some might say it doesn't add much but I disagree. I have discovered many collections from very simple comments that I wouldn't have if they weren't left and sometimes it ends up being a new art connection and/or deal being struck. 

 

When I leave a comment and someone replies with a simple "thanks" ... that doesn't bother me either. How can a gracious response elicit disdain is beyond me. I get the notion that it may perturb some because they assume someone is trying to get on a "most comments" list but I just don't care about that. If that is the only legit complaint about those replying on their own art then maybe Bill could filter them out when calculating the results for that list. All in all, this is such a nit in my eyes and Bill's energies would be much better applied elsewhere. 

 

As for the really detailed responses - those are great and really enjoyable to read as I always like to know the "why" behind a like, etc. The exception would be if there are critical remarks about the art - that's a pet peeve. Unless requested, I don't really care to read any critical comments. 

[comix4fun]

3 hours ago, Carlo M said:

I personally would like to see 1) more elaborate comments as opposed to just a couple of adjectives (there is the "Like" function for that), and 2) more balanced comments.  I am not saying people should feel entitled to freely talk one piece down.  But within a positive comment I would not mind a qualification (for example, "great layouts, but the backgrounds could be more detailed"; or "maybe this other inking style would have been more suited for this particular piece".

 When I posted my Byrne Galactus page from FF, I highlighted in the description the fact that it was in marker, and solicited comments on it.  A few CAFers picked up on it, and that was precisely the point.

Carlo

If you solicit comments on some aspect of the piece or invite discussion of qualities of the piece that would be some of only situations where non-complimentary comments should be expected. Others would be, stolen artwork, someone making prints and selling them, etc.  

Pointing out weaknesses in a piece that someone liked enough to purchase, scan, post, describe and obviously personally appreciates is lacking in general awareness and perhaps empathy. 

It reflects incredibly poorly on the person leaving such comments. This isn't a museum or art criticism class. It's not even an art gallery. These are people's personal collections. The most basic level of decorum demands "say something nice or say nothing at all". 

Just today I came across a real winner who's dropping comments on pieces such as "not very impressive", "the entire storyline this art came from was just awful", the artwork comes from "a crappy cartoon", "Too bad these female Punishers never look military like the real Punisher....they just look like whores.", "never liked Spider-man....what a f#$K up",  and the winner was a comment left on a commission piece that diverted from the canon of the character enough for him to say "Your fanfic idea is s$%T."

Those were all from the same guy....and he didn't even have the stones to use a real name. He's also lacking in the wedding tackle enough to even post a single piece of artwork in his gallery. 

So, speaking to the general public now, if you're thinking about leaving unflattering, insulting, or negative comments on someone's artwork just know that the only thing being left with a negative label is yourself. 

Edited November 9, 2017 by comix4fun

[JadeGiant]

9 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

If you solicit comments on some aspect of the piece or invite discussion of qualities of the piece that would be some of only situations where non-complimentary comments should be expected. Others would be, stolen artwork, someone making prints and selling them, etc.  

Pointing out weaknesses in a piece that someone liked enough to purchase, scan, post, describe and obviously personally appreciates is lacking in general awareness and perhaps empathy. 

It reflects incredibly poorly on the person leaving such comments. This isn't a museum or art criticism class. It's not even an art gallery. These are people's personal collections. The most basic level of decorum demands "say something nice or say nothing at all". 

Just today I came across a real winner who's dropping comments on pieces such as "not very impressive", "the entire storyline this art came from was just awful", the artwork comes from "a crappy cartoon", "Too bad these female Punishers never look military like the real Punisher....they just look like whores.", "never liked Spider-man....what a f#$K up",  and the winner was a comment left on a commission piece that diverted from the canon of the character enough for him to say "Your fanfic idea is ."

Those were all from the same guy....and he didn't even have the stones to use a real name. 

So, speaking to the general public now, if you're thinking about leaving unflattering, insulting, or negative comments on someone's artwork just know that the only thing being left with a negative label is yourself. 

100% agreed. Internet trolling - pretty sad

[comix4fun]

1 minute ago, JadeGiant said:

100% agreed. Internet trolling - pretty sad

Yes, and I just added to that post that the guy who posted all those trash comments doesn't even have a single piece of artwork posted in his gallery on CAF. 

Smells like a guy who can't take it if it was returned to him.

[SquareChaos]

Btw, that was more than enough information posted to find said CAF user 

Anyway, according to one comment this person is over 30 years old - definitely behaving badly.

[JadeGiant]

3 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

Yes, and I just added to that post that the guy who posted all those trash comments doesn't even have a single piece of artwork posted in his gallery on CAF. 

Smells like a guy who can't take it if it was returned to him.

sounds like someone needs to get the boot

[Pete Marino]

16 minutes ago, JadeGiant said:

sounds like someone needs to get the boot

Sounds like he needs a hug.

 

That's a lot of bitterness to troll other people's collections like that.

[vodou]

bout

1 hour ago, comix4fun said:

Pointing out weaknesses in a piece that someone liked enough to purchase, scan, post, describe and obviously personally appreciates is lacking in general awareness and perhaps empathy. 

It reflects incredibly poorly on the person leaving such comments. This isn't a museum or art criticism class. It's not even an art gallery. These are people's personal collections. The most basic level of decorum demands "say something nice or say nothing at all".

I've struggled with this. I think it's unfortunate that we can't have a critical discussion* about this stuff without folks getting emotional and personalizing the critique. It also bothers me that so many of us (all of us?) suspend our critical evaluation of the artform and specific pieces in question by allowing nostalgia, it's COOOL!!!, or whatever to whitewash what would otherwise be a bit painful to the eye. Hypocrisy came up in another thread and I'll bring it up here now too...that one guy's nostalgia is garbage because it's not yours, but yours is okay because it's yours. Yes that's hypocrisy when bad art (and maybe can develop some criteria other than "is the hero in costume or not", "facing front or -shot", "fighting a major villain or a one-and-done?" hmmm??) is bad art irrespective of who's nostalgic sweet spot it is or isn't but we don't call it that. Just because it's your personal "everything" and you spent 3x more than you could afford, trading away half of your collection to get 'er done, shouldn't mean we can't still use rational criteria to talk about the high and low points of it. And you (the owner and spender) shouldn't get all bent out of shape...because your bad taste is couched in what you read when you were twelve and could only have (by definition) relatively un-refined taste? I think that's all a shame. But I don't want to be the guy that forces this issue by my actions or annoys a lot of people by being myself (which means commenting honestly on any piece that catches my eye to the extent that I'd take the time to comment, positively or negatively, but not only one or the other in exclusion)...so I don't comment much at all. (I haven't pulled my stats on CAF, but it couldn't be more than a handful over the last many years.) It doesn't seem intellectually honest (to me) to only leave the positive comments and self-censor the negatives out; I'd prefer to abstain altogether.

Just my two cents. And my CAF is currently blank too, which I agree isn't cool if you're laying junker comments all about on other's pieces.

 

*Assumption being that the critical is not just bully/bashing and worse!

[SquareChaos]

9 minutes ago, vodou said:

bout

I've struggled with this. I think it's unfortunate that we can't have a critical discussion* about this stuff without folks getting emotional and personalizing the critique. It also bothers me that so many of us (all of us?) suspend our critical evaluation of the artform and specific pieces in question by allowing nostalgia, it's COOOL!!!, or whatever to whitewash what would otherwise be a bit painful to the eye. Hypocrisy came up in another thread and I'll bring it up here now too...that one guy's nostalgia is garbage because it's not yours, but yours is okay because it's yours. Yes that's hypocrisy when bad art (and maybe can develop some criteria other than "is the hero in costume or not", "facing front or -shot", "fighting a major villain or a one-and-done?" hmmm??) is bad art irrespective of who's nostalgic sweet spot it is or isn't but we don't call it that. Just because it's your personal "everything" and you spent 3x more than you could afford, trading away half of your collection to get 'er done, shouldn't mean we can't still use rational criteria to talk about the high and low points of it. And you (the owner and spender) shouldn't get all bent out of shape...because your bad taste is couched in what you read when you were twelve and could only have (by definition) relatively un-refined taste? I think that's all a shame. But I don't want to be the guy that forces this issue by my actions or annoys a lot of people by being myself (which means commenting honestly on any piece that catches my eye to the extent that I'd take the time to comment, positively or negatively, but not only one or the other in exclusion)...so I don't comment much at all. (I haven't pulled my stats on CAF, but it couldn't be more than a handful over the last many years.) It doesn't seem intellectually honest (to me) to only leave the positive comments and self-censor the negatives out; I'd prefer to abstain altogether.

Just my two cents. And my CAF is currently blank too, which I agree isn't cool if you're laying junker comments all about on other's pieces.

 

*Assumption being that the critical is not just bully/bashing and worse!

I think there is a time and a place for sharing such thoughts, but your average CAF member's item comment thread is not that place.

[vodou]

10 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

I think there is a time and a place for sharing such thoughts, but your average CAF member's item comment thread is not that place.

Where's that place? I don't think it exists. That's what bums me out, that what currently exists doesn't support that level of discussion without somebody crying.

[SquareChaos]

2 minutes ago, vodou said:

Where's that place? I don't think it exists. That's what bums me out, that what currently exists doesn't support that level of discussion without somebody crying.

I don't see why you can't critique art here - no one would stop you from posting about it I don't think. Assuming it was done in a mature way, assuming you picked items that had characteristics about which you could write both positively and negatively. It would be hard to keep it interesting though because I believe that most of us are well aware of what we're collecting, we know if our beloved page is schlock, and much of the allure often seems to be tied up in the schlockiness of the entire thing when it is in fact schlock. For those few that are deep enough involved to spend time here that do not think about it very deeply... well, you may risk offending a few people if you don't handle things properly, but that can happen in the normal course of a conversation and I don't think it should be held against people if it happens while they're attempting to engage in relevant conversation.