Sean Murphy selling new Batman White Knight art tomorrow. 0

[theflashunc]

I still think Sean's Joe the Barbarian work is his high water mark, but what do I know? 

Good for him getting top dollar for his work. Certainly won't begrudge an artist getting what the market will bear for his or her work. 

[Panelfan1]

2 hours ago, Comic Art Factory said:

Your question answers itself. 

Happy 2018.

Yeah - i am that good. Ha ha.  But what i am interested in is - is anyone buying into value at these prices? How do you out there as art collectors feel about it?

[vodou]

16 hours ago, Panelfan1 said:

The art is only a month or 2 old.

For Murphy the art is 16 months and a week (and two days!) old. That's a very long wait in flipperverse.

[RabidFerret]

9 hours ago, Panelfan1 said:

Yeah - i am that good. Ha ha.  But what i am interested in is - is anyone buying into value at these prices? How do you out there as art collectors feel about it?

I think this piece is priced similar to the rest of the WK work SGM is selling on his site now, but it is issue 1 and one of the few actual Batman pages in what is more a Joker book. I *think* this is one that sold at the secret auction, so it would be interesting to hear what it originally sold for.

But to the question of buying in, I've watched the site over the last month and none of it is moving. It seems like a handful of deep pockets are buying a bunch of the best pages on day one and nobody else is. Seems a very small market being propped up by a handful of folks.

[PhilipB2k17]

I think a lot of the criticism of Murphy is from collectors who can't afford his stuff, and do not want to see this trend continue for other modern artists. This isn't necessarily due to worried about overpaying or investment. It could just mean that some collectors may get completely priced out of the market. And that would be a shame.

 

[Bird]

On 1/1/2018 at 10:42 AM, RabidFerret said:

I think this piece is priced similar to the rest of the WK work SGM is selling on his site now, but it is issue 1 and one of the few actual Batman pages in what is more a Joker book. I *think* this is one that sold at the secret auction, so it would be interesting to hear what it originally sold for.

But to the question of buying in, I've watched the site over the last month and none of it is moving. It seems like a handful of deep pockets are buying a bunch of the best pages on day one and nobody else is. Seems a very small market being propped up by a handful of folks.

And this probably works for the artists who price like this. They could get their money with either 3-5 pages or 10-15 pages; same amount of money...I know which route I would take there. Develop a relationship with the ones who do buy and maybe they come back in a year and buy another. Getting bank and keeping more pages to sell later is smart...art is a commodity, even production art because the days when layout was only about storytelling and without an eye to resale are long gone. Hype sells art as well and Murphy is a smart marketer too.

[PhilipB2k17]

27 minutes ago, Bird said:

And this probably works for the artists who price like this. They could get their money with either 3-5 pages or 10-15 pages; same amount of money...I know which route I would take there. Develop a relationship with the ones who do buy and maybe they come back in a year and buy another. Getting bank and keeping more pages to sell later is smart...art is a commodity, even production art because the days when layout was only about storytelling and without an eye to resale are long gone. Hype sells art as well and Murphy is a smart marketer too.

With published comic book art, the artist has already been paid to produce the art by the publisher. So, anything they get for the original pages is gravy for them. And, a well-paid artists like Murphy can just sit on his stuff and demand whatever price point he wants and never feel motivated to reduce the price.

I predict that a lot of these pages will start showing up in a couple of years - being offered by the people who bought them from Murphy - and you can get them for a "discount" at that point.

Edited January 2, 2018 by PhilipB2k17

[vodou]

3 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I predict that a lot of these pages will start showing up in a couple of years - being offered by the people who bought them from Murphy - and you can get them for a "discount" at that point.

It sure doesn't feel like they will be moving up in value (ever?) from such a high starting point, but...neither did $800-$1200 DKR's back in the 80s!

[PhilipB2k17]

49 minutes ago, vodou said:

It sure doesn't feel like they will be moving up in value (ever?) from such a high starting point, but...neither did $800-$1200 DKR's back in the 80s!

I highly doubt it. Even then, TDKR had far more industry and hobby renown and buzz than BMWK does.

[SquareChaos]

1 hour ago, vodou said:

It sure doesn't feel like they will be moving up in value (ever?) from such a high starting point, but...neither did $800-$1200 DKR's back in the 80s!

I obviously have little idea what people are looking for in their modern Batman stories (I don't pull any Bat titles), so what do I know... but having made it through two issues of this mini, I in no way ever see this story becoming a classic. I know Sean has compared himself to Miller already so maybe that is where you're coming from here.

[vodou]

11 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

...so maybe that is where you're coming from here.

Not particularly, more like I'm just leaving the door open that because I don't understand it doesn't me I have all the answers

[SquareChaos]

2 minutes ago, vodou said:

Not particularly, more like I'm just leaving the door open that because I don't understand it doesn't me I have all the answers

WK is difficult to read, but some of the pictures are pretty 

[RabidFerret]

5 hours ago, Bird said:

And this probably works for the artists who price like this. They could get their money with either 3-5 pages or 10-15 pages; same amount of money...I know which route I would take there. Develop a relationship with the ones who do buy and maybe they come back in a year and buy another. Getting bank and keeping more pages to sell later is smart...art is a commodity, even production art because the days when layout was only about storytelling and without an eye to resale are long gone. Hype sells art as well and Murphy is a smart marketer too.

I think it’s too early to say. On paper it  sounds like a good approach dollarwise, but I suspect there are hidden longterm costs.

What happens when your whole market is tied to these few deep pockets and they change their interest and stop buying? You may be pricing art for a market that isn’t there.

And if the handful of buyers unload you risk crashing your whole market since there’s no support underneath it.

And what about the fans that supported you on lesser books and now feel slapped in the face? Will they come back for the next book or have you alienated them?

That last point is true for me right now. I still love the art and will buy the comics, but I think I’m done with buying his art. For the prices he’s asking I’d rather get 20 year old art from more established books and artists.

[aokartman]

My wife is a fine artist, and she always has concerns about the secondary market comparables, and asks me to not mention those in conversations with prospective clients. 

We comic art collectors reference the auctions as price points.  What they really are is starting points.  Or, if the market is falling for that art, it would be ending points.  If you are buying for resale, check the trends. 

Someone buying at retail is likely not thinking about resale in the short term.  They are irrationally exuberant!  Good for them.  David

 

 

[Panelfan1]

I think for regular (not super wealthy) guys - you need to believe that even if the art is not a true investment - you are paying a fair price for it.   And by fair I mean - the price at which others would also buy at if given the opportunity.

[vodou]

14 hours ago, aokartman said:

My wife is a fine artist, and she always has concerns about the secondary market comparables, and asks me to not mention those in conversations with prospective clients.

 

10 hours ago, Panelfan1 said:

I think for regular (not super wealthy) guys - you need to believe that even if the art is not a true investment - you are paying a fair price for it.   And by fair I mean - the price at which others would also buy at if given the opportunity.

The con side to art prices: it's all an illusion, just about everybody is overpaying, nearly all the time. This is not proven often though as very few rush into moving a paper loss to the realized loss column. Contrary to the standard Wall St advice of dump your losers fast and let your winners run, collectors (and most everybody else too!) sell the winners way too early and hold the losers far too long...hoping the market will eventually catch up (and hopefully!!) exceed their costly education. Estate pickers (me) know this dynamic well - tons of works trading everyday with old stickers, sometimes decades old, on the back that are 3x, 5x, 10x and more what they realize today at an heirs dump it all auction. The original owner preferred to die than realize the loss, often over and over and over again from the same collection too. Because winners are sold too early, you (me) can pick the bones of the living too. It's fun being contrarian (to the contrary!)

The pro side to art prices: you set your own 'value' against the intangible joy of ownership, and who can ever convince you that you didn't come out far ahead value:price using your own black box caculation?