Copper craziness 2 2

[Dlux]

Has anyone here worked or bought from standardcoin.com? The sell coins and comic art.  But I have seen the art in old auctions and such.  Seems like a scam maybe.  Any thoughts?

[thethedew]

On 3/8/2018 at 12:34 PM, BCarter27 said:

When will mid-level Bronze start softening? Its days are numbered, but what's the number? 

This is just going to kick open another market discussion, but okay. 

Why do you see Bronze softening?  I don't see it. 

Markets are emotion-based.  They fluctuate whenever sufficient fear is injected into the equation.

The main problem with laying that proof over the OA hobby is that there is another emotion at play which (IMO) trumps the raw investment concern: nostalgia.  I think for some in the hobby (and perhaps, many of the shadow players) there would have to be enormous systemic economic pressure from outside the hobby to make them abandon their nostalgic investments.  That didn't happen even during the Great Recession, (the worst downturn since the Depression); what would it really take to make us consider selling?  I think OA is fairly impervious to outside pressure, and with (thanks to modern technology) a limited supply of OA, prices can only continue to rise.

The only fear I have right now is that I'm going to get priced out of the hobby.

Edited March 11, 2018 by thethedew

[vodou]

4 hours ago, thethedew said:

The only fear I have right now is that I'm going to get priced out of the hobby.

Great post regarding competing "fears". You're lucky to be not priced out yet!

[Rick2you2]

5 hours ago, thethedew said:

When will mid-level Bronze start softening? Its days are numbered, but what's the number? 

There is no "number", but what will happen is likely to catch you by surprise. 

First, look for prices to go "stale", generally on the least interesting pieces first. They will sit in dealer inventories, and/or may occasonally go below similar pieces at auction. I think we may be there now. Good pieces, however, will continue to rise, and top pieces will go up a lot because so little of it is out there for sale.

But, softening doesn't mean you will see a wholesale drop. As "thethedew" pointed out, OA is often bought for nostalgia reasons. That stuff won't get sold unless someone really needs the money; wants to essentially get out the hobby, or the OA is being sold by the heirs. A real collapse may not be for another 20 years. It will happen, but not soon.

[zhamlau]

Speaking of Copper Craziness, anyone see the sale price on that last Newton/Alacala batman page?  3300? for a good panel page from 83?

[NinjaSealed]

6 minutes ago, zhamlau said:

Speaking of Copper Craziness, anyone see the sale price on that last Newton/Alacala batman page?  3300? for a good panel page from 83?

The prices the pages have maintained with the stream of them that have popped up has been impressive. I thought we would see price fatigue but it hasn't happened. Has anyone emailed the seller to know the story of how the pages came to market?

[BCarter27]

1 minute ago, NinjaSealed said:

The prices the pages have maintained with the stream of them that have popped up has been impressive. I thought we would see price fatigue but it hasn't happened. Has anyone emailed the seller to know the story of how the pages came to market?

I couldn't get much info from them. Seems like an ebay consignment shop -- maybe from the estate directly or a storage purchase. I couldn't even get the seller to say how many pages they had.

I think it's been the opposite of price fatigue. Prices for comparable pages have gone up from the time the "tap" came on. I got knocked out of that big splash a few months ago at $1800 and it went for $2400-ish, I think? My guess is it would've done better today now that everyone is watching the seller.

[NinjaSealed]

 

1 minute ago, BCarter27 said:

I think it's been the opposite of price fatigue. Prices for comparable pages have gone up from the time the "tap" came on. I got knocked out of that big splash a few months ago at $1800 and it went for $2400-ish, I think? My guess is it would've done better today now that everyone is watching the seller.

Yup, I would agree. I have not won any of them, been the underbidder on half a dozen or so.

[vodou]

33 minutes ago, NinjaSealed said:

 

Yup, I would agree. I have not won any of them, been the underbidder on half a dozen or so.

I won one or two (can't remember) and underbidder on many 40 of them? Sheesh. But people insist on overpaying, soon the comparable CLink examples that pop up occasionally will look like the deals instead

[lobrac]

2 hours ago, NinjaSealed said:

 

Yup, I would agree. I have not won any of them, been the underbidder on half a dozen or so.

eBay seller is doing great. Kudos to them. But after eBay sales things are not always so rosy. This Batman #367 page with Poison Ivy recently sold on Clink for $600:

http://comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAUCTIONS%2FALLSUB.ASP%3FFocused%3D1%26id%3D1398%26Artist%3DDON%20NEWTON%23Item_1233443&id=1233443&itemType=1

Previously sold on eBay for $790 in October of last year. #flipfail

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Don-Newton-Alfredo-Alcala-Art-Batman-Comic-Page-367-Poison-Ivy-1983-/352188129955?rmvSB=true&item=352188129955&ViewItem=&nma=true&si=2uOR%2FNN6u%2FazXo4ky32ENeJso0A%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

And another Netwon/Alcala page coming to Clink, very nice Batman #371 page with Batman vs. Catman. Sold on eBay last Septmber for $1,363.  Will be interesting to see how this one does.

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAUCTIONS%2FPREVIEW.ASP%3Fcode%3D2018may%26itemtype%3D1%23Item_1242465&id=1242465&itemType=1

Edited March 14, 2018 by lobrac

[INKREDIBLE BULK]

3 hours ago, zhamlau said:

Speaking of Copper Craziness, anyone see the sale price on that last Newton/Alacala batman page?  3300? for a good panel page from 83?

INSANITY AND DEEP POCKETS!!! or someone cashed in their 401K. I was lucky enough to snag one from this story before you had to mortgage the house to get a page. I believe Don Newton lived in AZ, so I figured it might a family member/close friend/local collector who was able to get whole issues and consign, including the super awesome DET 526. With more pages listed every second day, let the madness continue...

[Sideshow Bob]

1 hour ago, INKREDIBLE BULK said:

INSANITY AND DEEP POCKETS!!! or someone cashed in their 401K. I was lucky enough to snag one from this story before you had to mortgage the house to get a page. I believe Don Newton lived in AZ, so I figured it might a family member/close friend/local collector who was able to get whole issues and consign, including the super awesome DET 526. With more pages listed every second day, let the madness continue...

This sale process is a once-in-a-lifetime release of Don Newton art. I have been a culprit for driving up the prices on several of those pages. Tec 526 is my favorite book of all time, and I've gone to the mat several times for good pages during this ebay trickle. I thought it would be just be me looking for some Newton goodness, but I've lost out on many pages from the issue (including last night). There are a lot of pages in that super-sized Tec 526 and it seems like they've gotten nicely spread around to several Copper/Newton collectors. That said, I doubt they'd do this well on resale.

There seem to have been adjacent pages to key pages that have made it in this sale, but not the key pages (first Jason Todd in Batman #357, second Killer Croc).  But the real gem is the 'Tec #526 double-page spread with most of the Rogue's Gallery lined up. That will be a full-on free-for-all if it comes up, with myself in that mix. But I don't think the seller has everything from every issue, as the Robin/Batman splash from #366 was available years ago, so I'm not holding my breath. GLTA!

Edited March 14, 2018 by Sideshow Bob
Clarification

[delekkerste]

On 3/11/2018 at 3:36 AM, thethedew said:

This is just going to kick open another market discussion, but okay. 

Why do you see Bronze softening?  I don't see it. 

Markets are emotion-based.  They fluctuate whenever sufficient fear is injected into the equation.

The main problem with laying that proof over the OA hobby is that there is another emotion at play which (IMO) trumps the raw investment concern: nostalgia.  I think for some in the hobby (and perhaps, many of the shadow players) there would have to be enormous systemic economic pressure from outside the hobby to make them abandon their nostalgic investments.  That didn't happen even during the Great Recession, (the worst downturn since the Depression); what would it really take to make us consider selling?  I think OA is fairly impervious to outside pressure, and with (thanks to modern technology) a limited supply of OA, prices can only continue to rise.

The only fear I have right now is that I'm going to get priced out of the hobby.

I think far more people will abandon their "nostalgic investments", as you put it, due to AGING than due to external economic pressure. 

[Catwoman_Fan]

20 hours ago, Sideshow Bob said:

This sale process is a once-in-a-lifetime release of Don Newton art. I have been a culprit for driving up the prices on several of those pages. Tec 526 is my favorite book of all time, and I've gone to the mat several times for good pages during this ebay trickle. I thought it would be just be me looking for some Newton goodness, but I've lost out on many pages from the issue (including last night). There are a lot of pages in that super-sized Tec 526 and it seems like they've gotten nicely spread around to several Copper/Newton collectors. That said, I doubt they'd do this well on resale.

There seem to have been adjacent pages to key pages that have made it in this sale, but not the key pages (first Jason Todd in Batman #357, second Killer Croc).  But the real gem is the 'Tec #526 double-page spread with most of the Rogue's Gallery lined up. That will be a full-on free-for-all if it comes up, with myself in that mix. But I don't think the seller has everything from every issue, as the Robin/Batman splash from #366 was available years ago, so I'm not holding my breath. GLTA!

I still don't get whats driving up all the pages (not just Tec 526).  It feels like many pages are leftovers (from the family) and not the splash/key pages that should go for big money. 

I am stunned that the "B" pages are going for 1-3,000.  Heritage/Comiclink has been listing "B - C" pages for years and they end up much more affordable. 

[INKREDIBLE BULK]

23 hours ago, Sideshow Bob said:

This sale process is a once-in-a-lifetime release of Don Newton art. I have been a culprit for driving up the prices on several of those pages. Tec 526 is my favorite book of all time, and I've gone to the mat several times for good pages during this ebay trickle. I thought it would be just be me looking for some Newton goodness, but I've lost out on many pages from the issue (including last night). There are a lot of pages in that super-sized Tec 526 and it seems like they've gotten nicely spread around to several Copper/Newton collectors. That said, I doubt they'd do this well on resale.

There seem to have been adjacent pages to key pages that have made it in this sale, but not the key pages (first Jason Todd in Batman #357, second Killer Croc).  But the real gem is the 'Tec #526 double-page spread with most of the Rogue's Gallery lined up. That will be a full-on free-for-all if it comes up, with myself in that mix. But I don't think the seller has everything from every issue, as the Robin/Batman splash from #366 was available years ago, so I'm not holding my breath. GLTA!

I can understand wanting pages from this story but you have to admit the bidding has become a bit absurd. And you are not the only bidder, someone is driving the prices to total insanity.  I have bid on a bunch of them, but at 2500-3000, you are looking at getting caught up in the moment and $$$$ that you will never see again. I guess nostalgia is priceless. I GUESS?

[Sideshow Bob]

1 hour ago, INKREDIBLE BULK said:

I can understand wanting pages from this story but you have to admit the bidding has become a bit absurd. And you are not the only bidder, someone is driving the prices to total insanity.  I have bid on a bunch of them, but at 2500-3000, you are looking at getting caught up in the moment and $$$$ that you will never see again. I guess nostalgia is priceless. I GUESS?

Yep, the $3300 for a Newton/Alcala panel page is way out there on the distribution curve, but I will say that it had Riddler, Cavalier, Mad Hatter, Scarecrow facing off with Batman, Catwoman, and Talia. That is a page that checks a lot of boxes...

[INKREDIBLE BULK]

15 minutes ago, Sideshow Bob said:

Yep, the $3300 for a Newton/Alcala panel page is way out there on the distribution curve, but I will say that it had Riddler, Cavalier, Mad Hatter, Scarecrow facing off with Batman, Catwoman, and Talia. That is a page that checks a lot of boxes...

True. But you have to admit that PG. 16 for 2175 (all fighting) was a better deal. But not really because it was over 2K. I went back on eBay and checked out some of the prices on recent DET 526 pages. Last page that ended PG 15 went for 3.3K, PG 16 went for 2175, PG 20 - went for 2080, PG 24 - 1325 (reasonable compared to the last few) and PG 25 for 1580. That is like a total of 10.4K for 5 pages, you get to admit there is a level of CRAZINESS for a copper age issue. Not sure if you are bidding on these few but when you look at it from here, doesn't it seem a bit much. I love to collect art but when you are closing at crazy numbers, it is tough to even get one. I suppose if you are happy to have a piece(s) of art that means so much to you, it is well worth it. But I just can't convince myself. Anyways, happy collecting.

[MarvelComicsArt]

On 3/14/2018 at 5:46 PM, delekkerste said:

I think far more people will abandon their "nostalgic investments", as you put it, due to AGING than due to external economic pressure. 

I think perhaps it will be a mixture of both. I think as most collectors age they will not have the same "hunger" for treasure hunting.

And unless you have invested /saved wisely during your peek years of earning potential who says you will have disposable income to throw away on nostalgia .

On the other hand there will always be passionate art collectors at the ripe/robust age of between 50-60 . 

When you get the bug and you can afford it ,than trust me buddy  you aren't going anywhere. You just become much more "selective". And your treasures are just bigger trophies.

If you are between 50-60 years of age and have the economic power to make large purchases in this hobby than why on earth would you ever stop doing so.  Its addictive and a pi*sing contest!

Unless you no longer have the means to do so financially. Than that's a whole other story. Or unless you can't due to your old age... than that just flat out sucks.

Your treasure hunting days are only officially over if 

(a) You need the money for other purchases --- such as your kids college fund, new house, retirement .... buying a high end brothel in Paris , than licensing it out in New York and Miami...don't judge)

or 

(b)You already have all your trophies and nothing else gives you the same"high".  --- as crazy as it sounds this is actually possible, but in most cases very rare.

(c)You suddenly look in the mirror and start crying that there is an old man staring back at you and that life just isn't as sweet as it once was . So who cares about anything at this point. 

(Depression) i know i could have just said that.......and avoided this tedious monologue... but...

(d)a tragedy in the family ... ( an actual selfless depression when you see all material objects as totally worthless and joyless )

(e) if your wife finds out about the brothel and than files for divorce .  Takes half of everything... than you need all your leftover money for the shiniest most expensive red car possible to attract hot babes!

(Cause sure as hell your original comic art collection won't attract the ladies or whatever is left over of it after the divorce.)

(f)if one day you wake up and suddenly realize that you have a serious hoarding problem and need help..... nahhhhh this one is just an early april fools joke.... that would never happen........... wink

 

Collectors will stop collecting if there is no money for it... or if they simply don't appreciate the hunt.

Most of the material will always be there for sale. Quadruple the price but still there . But as one generation ages they soon realize that they no longer have anything in common with the next generations taste in art or collecting trends. All of a sudden conventions and get togethers may not be as fun when you don't have your peers to talk smack/gossip/ shop with. 

I hear older collectors complain about this all of the time. It happens to every collecting generation when it just doesn't feel "worth it"  When the magic is gone! When it's just not the same.

Back in my day i had to walk for 20 miles barefoot in the snow just to get to Jack Kirby's House . Where i proceeded to offer him a marvelous shiny nickel for purchase of his art . 

But sadly his art went missing. So he pointed me into the direction of Stan Lees house/mansion instead . Because luckily for me Stan had "borrowed" some art that day from Marvel's office .

And with that shiny Nickel i proceeded to purchase a full issue and a cover of X-MEN 2, DAREDEVIL 4, Captain B*llSh*t #11 and 12.  yeah the good ol days

A whole shiny nickel , had to work six full weeks in the coal mines for it. Even killed a man that was twice my size for that nickel. Ahhhhh those were the days.......(insert happy day's theme song here)

monday , tuesday happy days, wednesday, thursday happy days, ............ 

But i..... am truly special so none of this applies to me... my mom tells me that all of the time... as she brings me freshly baked cookies down to my massive loft sized apartment in the basement...

.......of my moms house.  So Special --- for our bilingual collectors ... yo,  soy especial 

 

Edited March 16, 2018 by MarvelComicsArt