Yep, we are in the 1990's collectibles pre-crash 2 2

[Bronty]

9 hours ago, Foley said:

And the trimming wasn't caught by the grading service?

I'm no expert on sports cards but I remember hearing it was trimmed from an uncut sheet, which would be harder to detect

[chrisco37]

At the end of the linked article, it says the card was originally from an uncut sheet.  But that was before Mastro ever bought it.  He subsequently trimmed it even further.

 

[Lucky Baru]

On 4/24/2018 at 6:33 AM, FineCollector said:

There's only one copy, so there's that.  I don't know what 1 of 1 cards sell for normally, but if nothing else, it's advertising for the store.  Baseball collectors are nuts anyway, remember what the Mark McGuire home run balls were selling for?

Todd does.

[Lucky Baru]

On 4/27/2018 at 12:22 PM, Foley said:

Random off topic question:

Does Wayne Gretzky still own that T-206 Honus Wagner? The one that's high grade but almost certainly trimmed?

Bill Mastro admitted tha he trimmed the card.  He also admitted that he had people shill bid different items at auction to increase their value.

[Shadow Images]

Collectible markets always yoyo. At some time there is a tipping point where everyone is a investor and no one is a collector. At that point it starts to crumble. The" its worth x dollars" becomes untrue as no one want to pay as they think they need to have it at wholesale cost. This has happened many time in all form of collecting and will continue to go that cycle.The internet has only made this cycle happen more often. jmho

[ComicConnoisseur]

On 4/24/2018 at 7:04 AM, Mercury Man said:

$60K for a baseball card for a player with 3 games under his belt.   Look out belooooooowwwww.....<<splat>>! 

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/shohei-ohtani-card-going-60000-isnt-even-yet-044305844.html

They now upped the $60k offer to $75k.

https://www.blowoutcards.com/blog/blowoutcards-com-offers-60000-for-bgs-9-5-shohei-ohtani-superfractor-autograph-from-new-2018-bowman-boxes/

 

[Mercury Man]

1 hour ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

They now upped the $60k offer to $75k.

https://www.blowoutcards.com/blog/blowoutcards-com-offers-60000-for-bgs-9-5-shohei-ohtani-superfractor-autograph-from-new-2018-bowman-boxes/

 

Good luck to all parties involved.   His 2-1 record seals his HOF ballot for me. 

[deadleg]

Man that would suck if the 1/1 card didn’t get the 9.5 grade.

[David-Lance Roten]

I tend to stick with older stuff, established. Comics and cards.  Maybe 1% of what I have would be considered modern. Hell even my cologne and aftershave that I use in heavy rotation is from the 70's  / early 80's   

Edited April 30, 2018 by PinkRoseCollection
spelling

[valiantman]

3 hours ago, PinkRoseCollection said:

Hell even my cologne and aftershave that I use in heavy rotation is from the 70's  / early 80's   

 

[FoggyNelson]

On 4/24/2018 at 6:37 PM, Brian48 said:

Modern sports cards are like modern comics.  They're printed in quantities far lower than anything in the '90s which were printed in the MILLIONS.  This is for both comics, cards, toys, you name it.  I am so glad I was not collecting anything back in the '90s. 

Me too except I wish I was buying comic keys back then?

[the blob]

On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 7:56 PM, Mercury Man said:

Good luck to all parties involved.   His 2-1 record seals his HOF ballot for me. 

Let's say he wraps up at 150-75 with a 126 era+ and 1500 hits with a .300 BA/136 OPS+?  Neither one enough, but either one probably half way there? (I won't even try to get into WAR)

[revat]

3 hours ago, the blob said:

On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 4:56 PM, Mercury Man said:

Good luck to all parties involved.   His 2-1 record seals his HOF ballot for me. 

Let's say he wraps up at 150-75 with a 126 era+ and 1500 hits with a .300 BA/136 OPS+?  Neither one enough, but either one probably half way there? (I won't even try to get into WAR)

I think I'd need at least 200 wins OR 2000 hits paired with the other stat you posted to go HOF.  We can lower the numbers a little if he gets a CY Young/MVP, or is exceptional in the playoffs at some point.  Note that MVP is extremely far fetched as Trout would almost certainly split the vote against him, and Cy Youngs are hard because he gets less starts.  But who knows, rookie of the year this year would be a good start.  And his ancillary pitching stats will always be at somewhat of a disadvantage because he'll likely always play in the American League (so he can DH), and yes I get that you can make sabermetric adjustments, but less K's is less K's, and higher ERA is higher ERA.

[the blob]

43 minutes ago, revat said:

I think I'd need at least 200 wins OR 2000 hits paired with the other stat you posted to go HOF.  We can lower the numbers a little if he gets a CY Young/MVP, or is exceptional in the playoffs at some point.  Note that MVP is extremely far fetched as Trout would almost certainly split the vote against him, and Cy Youngs are hard because he gets less starts.  But who knows, rookie of the year this year would be a good start.  And his ancillary pitching stats will always be at somewhat of a disadvantage because he'll likely always play in the American League (so he can DH), and yes I get that you can make sabermetric adjustments, but less K's is less K's, and higher ERA is higher ERA.

I don't think they would analyze it that way. Other than Babe Ruth, nobody is in that discussion. 200 wins alone with those numbers has gotten people in. Look at Catfish Hunter (whose other numbers were way worse than that, but he was iconic and had a cool name). Numbers that half way get you there in both areas would be sufficient for a unique player like that. Plus his WAR would likely be high enough. He is only 23. 15 years in the bigs he should be able to hit 150/1500, maybe better. Obviously he needs to stay healthy.

[Michelangelo]

consider what causes a market bubble... i.e. the stock market

participlants within the market place drive the prices up beyond their true value. Bubbles may be attributed to the way a group thinks or perceives the market, biases, etc. It's a herd-like mentality.

Now, attribute that to the comic market. Speculation, movie hype, the soaring prices, the variants, the feeling to 'get in before it's too late'... this is driving prices up beyond true values.

You cannot tell me that a book which appreciated in value at a slow and steady pace for 50-60 years suddenly skyrockets up 250-300% in 12 months and that's normal behaviour..

once the movies die down, the trend changes and the dust settles, many people will be left holding books they overpaid for today

[ygogolak]

3 hours ago, Michelangelo said:

consider what causes a market bubble... i.e. the stock market

participlants within the market place drive the prices up beyond their true value. Bubbles may be attributed to the way a group thinks or perceives the market, biases, etc. It's a herd-like mentality.

Now, attribute that to the comic market. Speculation, movie hype, the soaring prices, the variants, the feeling to 'get in before it's too late'... this is driving prices up beyond true values.

You cannot tell me that a book which appreciated in value at a slow and steady pace for 50-60 years suddenly skyrockets up 250-300% in 12 months and that's normal behaviour..

once the movies die down, the trend changes and the dust settles, many people will be left holding books they overpaid for today

Hulk 181....

[ADAMANTIUM]

1 minute ago, ygogolak said:

Hulk 181....

hulk 180 too

[revat]

4 hours ago, Michelangelo said:

consider what causes a market bubble... i.e. the stock market

participlants within the market place drive the prices up beyond their true value. Bubbles may be attributed to the way a group thinks or perceives the market, biases, etc. It's a herd-like mentality.

Now, attribute that to the comic market. Speculation, movie hype, the soaring prices, the variants, the feeling to 'get in before it's too late'... this is driving prices up beyond true values.

You cannot tell me that a book which appreciated in value at a slow and steady pace for 50-60 years suddenly skyrockets up 250-300% in 12 months and that's normal behaviour..

once the movies die down, the trend changes and the dust settles, many people will be left holding books they overpaid for today

but consider the REASONS things are bought and sold in terms of comics and collectibles.  People buy them for OTHER reasons than financial, and any given market is more opaque to your average consumer.  The stock market is full of MILLIONS of people who do nothing but trade and research stocks all day.  How many comic investors have such perfect knowledge?  And yes any 1 or 5 comics can crash at the same time, but what would cause ALL of them to crash? Wouldn't the money just move to something else?  Wouldn't there be cushions of ebay buyers letting you down gently instead of a massive crash?  Except for the dumbest of speculators who would have failed anyways? And how many people buy 10's or hundreds of a given comic that if the market for that comic crashed they'd be broke?  It just doesn't happen anymore.  So yes, the occasional dummy might get crushed from time to time, but what would cause a major chunk of dealers/sellers/flippers to get crushed at the same time?  I just don't think its possible any more with the internet.  Which is not to say any individual can't make a string of bad decisions and lose money, just that I don't think it can easily be system wide.  I think that scenario only occurs in the event of a CGC scandal.

[Michelangelo]

The price of gold has increased 335% in 30 years.

Some comic books have increased by roughly the same percentage in 12 months!.. No one can tell me that's sustainable or that we shouldn't be looking at that cautiously - regardless of how knowledgeable a collector is or how many bad decisions buyers make.

As for the Hulk 181 Kool-Aid drinkers, I get that it's a key book and people love it. But, if 4.0's were selling for $5,000 12 months from now there are people on this board that would be preaching it was still a worthwhile investment and completely justified.

[ygogolak]

45 minutes ago, Michelangelo said:

The price of gold has increased 335% in 30 years.

Some comic books have increased by roughly the same percentage in 12 months!.. No one can tell me that's sustainable or that we shouldn't be looking at that cautiously - regardless of how knowledgeable a collector is or how many bad decisions buyers make.

As for the Hulk 181 Kool-Aid drinkers, I get that it's a key book and people love it. But, if 4.0's were selling for $5,000 12 months from now there are people on this board that would be preaching it was still a worthwhile investment and completely justified.

Are there people on here that don't understand the movie hype curve yet?