Sour Art 0

[MagnusX]

Yes,
That piece of art that leave you with a nasty flavor once that you got it.

Reasons are many Price, Quality, Description, Shipping, etc...
For me was the Politic Views of the artist
He was so outspoken
I try to forget the nasty things he say and focus on the art
the more I try the more I resent it,
It feel like his art is burning my hands.

Anyone in the same position?

 

[Rick2you2]

40 minutes ago, MagnusX said:

Yes,
That piece of art that leave you with a nasty flavor once that you got it.

Reasons are many Price, Quality, Description, Shipping, etc...
For me was the Politic Views of the artist
He was so outspoken
I try to forget the nasty things he say and focus on the art
the more I try the more I resent it,
It feel like his art is burning my hands.

Anyone in the same position?

 

And that would be what piece of yours, and why?

[The Voord]

No idea who the artist is but he's entitled to his political views.  I have friends and family with different political viewpoints but I try never to take it personal.  

 

[Will_K]

Did you only learn about the artist's political views while you were transacting ( with the artist?? ) for the art ?? 

Does it bother you that maybe the artist's views contributed to WHY you liked the art ?  You obviously liked the art at some point.

So does that mean in the future, you will investigate an artist's political views before buying any artist's art ?

[DeadpoolJr.]

8 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

And that would be what piece of yours, and why?

My bet would be Ethan Van Sciver. He's the only artist I know of that has status and a political following.

[MagnusX]

No names,

I have 3 pieces
the first 2 before I knew his point of  view
the third after.

I realy like his art
but there is a discomfort now when I look at them...

 

[ESeffinga]

First to mind for me were EVS or as I always have known him "the Cyberfrog Guy), or to a more blunted with time degree, Frank Miller.

But to be fair, with Social Media and fans following the artists of their choice, it'd be hard not to be at least somewhat inundated by political nastiness of all sorts. I primarily use social media as a way of following artists I enjoy. Not for talking about my family. Not for trying to make a name for myself or my pet, or to be clever or make a buck. But just so I know when an artist is having a show, making an appearance, releasing a book or project, etc. For me its largely been a modern tool to keep up with whatever is going on around the artists I enjoy. And I've been very happy with info it's brought me the last number of years. But increasingly it is becoming more useless to me. The acrimony in the country is so foul and childish (not just politically, but socially as well) that it's become harder and harder to glean useful information... my own purpose in following artists, as they are more and more using their online platforms to speak to the things they are passionate about that don't include their art.

And this goes for artists of all stripes. Some are more eloquent about it, and some aren't much more than parrots of things they've read elsewhere, or simply yelling "you suck" to the netherverse. I don't blame them for speaking their truth or whatever, but some of these folks wear it like a badge of pride, and have been drawing lines in the sand for their fans etc. It's just... I dunno. I've seen a few folks split their social media presence up into fan-based accounts and family and friends" accounts. Probably in an effort to not mix the two up so much, but a great many folks are all-in with whatever thing pops into their head, or sharing whatever thing they've just read that has nothing to do with why most folks are following that individual in the first place.

Anyhow, so to my thinking, it could be anyone.

For my own part, I've had art that soured the moment I opened it and wasn't what it was purported to be, but that was sent back.
I've also sold art by folks that I once admired because they turned out to not be worthy of that admiration after knowing them for some time, and I kind of bailed.
But most often I have sold art that I just fell out of love with as my appreciation for other types of art, or my level of taste has shifted over time. Nothing wrong with the piece, so much as my level of enjoyment of it waned. Less about being soured but more about falling out of love.

Though there have been modern musicians that I liked that I no longer listen to or buy music from because they turned out to be straight up racist, woman beaters or the like. I can't think of too many modern artists I've had that reaction too, but be careful where you start drawing the line, or you could dig up heinous things about all kinds of historical artists, that will damage your appreciation of their work. It's a big scab, and one that can be painful to pick at, lest you find your favorites were terrible people!

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by ESeffinga

[delekkerste]

3 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

First to mind for me were EVS or as I always have known him "the Cyberfrog Guy), or to a more blunted with time degree, Frank Miller.

The list is long of potential candidates, from across the political spectrum:  

Aside from Ethan Van Sciver and Frank Miller (who were also the first two I thought of), there's also Jim Steranko (who alienated lots of fans with his pro-DJT Twitter rants in 2016), Bill Sienkiewicz (very outspoken about his left-wing views), George Perez (threatened to boycott all "Red" states in the aftermath of the 2016 election), just to name some candidates off the top of my head.  I'm sure there are a lot more candidates, especially among younger artists. 

Edited July 2, 2018 by delekkerste

[Pete Marino]

For me, the one that comes to mind is Mike S Miller.

he did some nice art from the Song of Ice and Fire universe.  The 1st art I ever purchased was a splash from the Hedge Knight from him.  It was a gift to the best man of my wedding.

It's still great art, but given what he's espoused over the years, I'll never buy anything else from him.

[jqa3]

Disappointed.  I thought this was a thread about the art of John Sauer (SOUR). 

johnsauer.com

Even so, here's a piece he did for me.  Nothing sour about this (other than than artist's name...)

silverfishgallery.blogspot.com/2014/01/sours-silverfish.html

[Rick2you2]

I don't think an artist's views are relevant to the quality of the art, so I don't pay attention to them. I'm not planning to go hang out with the artist, so why would it matter?

I feel the same about actors, sports figures and others who are famous for specific reasons.

[Andahaion]

I find I'm prone to avoid a certain person because I find them to be a person of low character, or a "bad" person, and not necessarily if their viewpoints are contrary to mine.  I wish I saw more people take that approach.  It seems these days that just being affiliated with one group or another automatically makes one a "bad" person.  That said, if they're espousing something really repugnant I'll of course do what I must.  Context, as usual, plays a huge part in these type of decisions (for me).

[BCarter27]

See Dan Jurgens on airplanes and Tony Harris with cosplayers. Ugh!

[MagnusX]

Justiniano is one that I stay away,
I like his art but is a NO NO for me...

[The Voord]

Stay away from Steve Ditko artwork.  Steve was (and maybe still is) a follower of Ayn Rand.  

Better still, dump his OA in my direction. 

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by The Voord

[ESeffinga]

4 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

I don't think an artist's views are relevant to the quality of the art, so I don't pay attention to them. I'm not planning to go hang out with the artist, so why would it matter?

I feel the same about actors, sports figures and others who are famous for specific reasons.

Really? I know by and large we are talking about comic art on this board, so it's probably slightly less relevant in the day to day. I say slightly because quite frankly I don't think much of Miller's body of work would exist without his "views". And that goes for a great many revered comic artists and writers. And God knows, it is crucial for fine art.

If one only sees "art" or "Art" with a capital A as being decorative, and thus a skillset, then I fear that person is missing a huge part of what makes art work. Art is about a connection through shared human experience (among many other things) and it's why stories carry us away. Either to totally new places, or places unfamiliar. Would Green Latern 76 be what it is without "views"? And it doesn't even have to be an example so on the nose. Subtly, all art is infused with the "views" of it's creator. Some intentional, and much unintentionally so. It's just part of who they are. Through the choices of dialogue, through character depiction, through the stories they tell and how they tell them. I get it with a sports star. Maybe less with say... a musician, because here again too, many great songs and songwriters and bands have had plenty to say to the world through their art. Actors... that can be down to the editorial choice of the types of pictures they choose to be in, and whatnot. moreso than their "public persona" via social media, appearances and the like. But still can be a pretty decent reflection of their "views".

All in all, I am all about artists with "views", because it means the work they are creating has a deeper meaning to them than just a paycheck. And there's nothing wrong with doing a job for a paycheck, but honestly, to me that speaks nothing to the human condition, and therefor is less an art than a skill. Plenty of guys can draw a Toyota Rav 4, or Superman, or a squirrel. Far fewer can make an impact on the community around them, and the world. No matter how subtle or under the radar.

And FWIW, I never go out of my way looking for work that line up with my own viewpoints on the world. instead I find, I tend to connect with work that speaks to me in a more personal humanistic way. I'd shudder to think what the world would loose if "views" were not expressed through art.

 

But that's just me...

[BCarter27]

All fine points when the artist is the "author" of the message, but how about when the artist (with their possibly undesirable politics) is just a hired gun executing a writer, editor, or company's vision/statement, as is often the case with comic art?

I remember when Dark Horse (or was it First Comics?) published an open letter from Gary Martin in their lettercol for Nexus. Gary's religious beliefs didn't align with Mike Baron's story. I thought it was a great editorial decision to allow that dialogue regardless of the side you agreed with. Sometimes it is nice to hear from the drummer, if you will. But with social media, we now have the drummer shouting over the top of the song.

That all said, I definitely have pieces from artists that I wish I could bury my head in the sand and forget about.

I just have one question... Is it safe to watch Annie Hall yet?

[Kizarny]

I've had pieces turn sour, but never because of the artist. For me it was because of the process of the deal (and more specifically the seller).... 

[ESeffinga]

Indeed. THe real kicker in comics is that many (most?) books are not from a single author. It's been one of the joys and challenges of the medium. I'm sure it's why in my own personal case, the stuff i like the most tends to be books from a single creator. BUT, I have some real favorites that either started off as single creator, books, or just had really great teams on them. As to the message, I think everybody gets to put in their "say" to some degree. How often have little messages been dropped in comics in background street names, stores, graffiti, etc. Often these are simple nods to influences or past "names" on the book. Sometimes not.

I seem to recall an artist from somewhere (Malaysia?) recently, that got into a whole mess of trouble (fired?) over putting some hidden messages in his work for one of the big two. I'm sure someone here will remember the guy/book. That didn't go over so well for him.

Creative teams do make for interesting dynamics. In fact, they don't always have to get along, or even have a singular vision, for a work to be interesting. Sometimes conflict can lead to happy accidents in art. Though I don't think those creative teams tend to last very long as working relationships, before they melt down, or decide to go separate ways.

The pieces I've sold off because I just didn't want to look at them any more were all let go over personal dismay, rather than larger political,social views, or the person just being a general "d i c k". I'd bet there are folks who don't want to look at some work because it was shared with a former spouse or things like that. Anybody ever sold art because of an Ex, and the emotional baggage that carries? Knock on wood, I've never had that experience. Though I've had friends with guitars that sold them because a former significant other gave them to them, and they just couldn't stand the sight of them anymore. That's gotta be a tough one for OA. There is on;y one, after all.

[MagnusX]

4 minutes ago, ESeffinga said:

I seem to recall an artist from somewhere (Malaysia?) recently, that got into a whole mess of trouble (fired?) over putting some hidden messages in his work for one of the big two. I'm sure someone here will remember the guy/book. That didn't go over so well for him.

His name is Adrian Syaf he was fired from Marvel for his anti-christian and anti-semitic references...
famous words from him: "My career is over now"