9.8 book received from CGC with detached cover 2 2

[MadGenius]

Just got this in the mail from CGC. Staples popped and the cover is completely detached.

I've already sent photos to CGC customer service so I can be compensated, but would much rather have the book than the money. Not the first time I've seen this happen with the new holders, but the first time I've gotten one directly from CGC.

Thoughts on whether this occurred during encapsulation or in transit with the shipping company?

[The Lions Den]

Very sorry to see this happen...big-time bummer. I do have a couple of questions for you...  1) Was the box damaged or did it show signs of having been mistreated? 2) Is the CGC case damaged in any way?  3) Did the packing material seem sufficient to you? Again, I'm sorry this happened, but maybe we can put our heads together and figure out how it happened...

[Bomber-Bob]

I've seen this happen, even with the previous generation of slab. The cover 'sticks' to the wall of the inner well (static electricity?) while the rest of the book is free to move around a little. Usually it's not a problem but if the shipment was packed so the contents had some wiggle room inside and could shift a little with movement, this is what happens. I think it happens more than we think but only to a lesser degree and not popping staples. BTW, the box doesn't necessarily have to show signs of damage or rough play, it's the inside packaging we are talking about here. I believe CGC will make good on this. I'm sure they will ask to have you send it back and maybe there's a chance there is no real damage. They may have to press it for you.

[MadGenius]

41 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I've seen this happen, even with the previous generation of slab. The cover 'sticks' to the wall of the inner well (static electricity?) while the rest of the book is free to move around a little. Usually it's not a problem but if the shipment was packed so the contents had some wiggle room inside and could shift a little with movement, this is what happens. I think it happens more than we think but only to a lesser degree and not popping staples. BTW, the box doesn't necessarily have to show signs of damage or rough play, it's the inside packaging we are talking about here. I believe CGC will make good on this. I'm sure they will ask to have you send it back and maybe there's a chance there is no real damage. They may have to press it for you.

CGC seemed to pack this one pretty well, so I was surprised it arrived in the condition it did. Both the case and the box looked good as well. Sadly a press is not going to fix this one as the cover is fully detached. Looking at the top of the book there is a sizable gap between the spine of the cover and where the pages are. Total loss.

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

3 hours ago, MadGenius said:

Thoughts on whether this occurred during encapsulation or in transit with the shipping company?

It's a clear case of Shaken Comic Syndrome (SCS).  Damage like this wouldn't happen during encapsulation (although it's theoretically possible).  It's very common (I have an entire thread full of examples) and doesn't require much force for it to occur - normal mail handling can cause it.  This was the exact reason (and a noble one) why CGC designed their Creep-Engine case.  It applied pressure to the comic to prevent this kind of damage - unfortunately the design-type chosen had terrible, unforeseen consequences, and we are now back to a non-pressurized case.

Bottom line - any time an encapsulated book is shipped through the mail, there is a risk of SCS.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Ditch Fahrenheit

[MadGenius]

4 hours ago, MadGenius said:

Just got this in the mail from CGC. Staples popped and the cover is completely detached.

I've already sent photos to CGC customer service so I can be compensated, but would much rather have the book than the money. Not the first time I've seen this happen with the new holders, but the first time I've gotten one directly from CGC.

Thoughts on whether this occurred during encapsulation or in transit with the shipping company?

Could this be SCS? Maybe. It's just very hard to tell. With this particular case design, it doesn't seem like there's much wiggle room for the book. That tabbed slot should theoretically hold the book in place, and if it suffered some kind of trauma during shipping I would expect to see crunched corners rather than a cover detachment.

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

7 minutes ago, MadGenius said:

Could this be SCS? Maybe. It's just very hard to tell. With this particular case design, it doesn't seem like there's much wiggle room for the book. That tabbed slot should theoretically hold the book in place, and if it suffered some kind of trauma during shipping I would expect to see crunched corners rather than a cover detachment.

It's not difficult to tell.  Do you see the interior pages pulled away from the right edge of the cover and then slammed into the right edge of the inner holder?  Basically, the cover stayed on the left, and the interior pages moved to the right, severing the cover from the rest of the book.  Like I said, this happens all the time when shipping encapsulated books through the mail.  It's not unusual in the least.

[Yorick]

The interior plastic trough appears to be too large for this book.  Too much room for this one to "play" around in there.  I think I may have just bought one like this, but not nearly as obvious.

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

15 minutes ago, Yorick said:

The interior plastic trough appears to be too large for this book.  Too much room for this one to "play" around in there.  I think I may have just bought one like this, but not nearly as obvious.

Well, it's kind of rare to find one that fits the comic book exactly.  Comic book dimensions are not a constant...they are a range.  But even if you find one that fits perfectly, it's still subject to Shaken Comic Syndrom (SCS).  The book can still move around inside, and the edges of the cover either get smashed or are caught between the two layers of plastic and torn.  This is actually more common than the detached cover example above.

One of these days I'll get my act together and make a video explaining all of this with tons of examples.  For whatever reason, this is one area of the hobby that is not well understood; in fact, most collectors aren't even aware that this kind of damage can occur.

As you might imagine, this begs a few questions about the ACTUAL grade of an encapsulated book that has been shipped through the mail.  There are tons of encapsulated books out there which are nowhere near the grade affixed to their case.  And, by the way, this isn't just a CGC problem, it can happen to ANY encapsulated book from ANY grading company.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Ditch Fahrenheit

[Bomber-Bob]

2 hours ago, Ditch Fahrenheit said:

Well, it's kind of rare to find one that fits the comic book exactly.  Comic book dimensions are not a constant...they are a range.  But even if you find one that fits perfectly, it's still subject to Shaken Comic Syndrom (SCS).  The book can still move around inside, and the edges of the cover either get smashed or are caught between the two layers of plastic and torn.  This is actually more common than the detached cover example above.

One of these days I'll get my act together and make a video explaining all of this with tons of examples.  For whatever reason, this is one area of the hobby that is not well understood; in fact, most collectors aren't even aware that this kind of damage can occur.

As you might imagine, this begs a few questions about the ACTUAL grade of an encapsulated book that has been shipped through the mail.  There are tons of encapsulated books out there which are nowhere near the grade affixed to their case.  And, by the way, this isn't just a CGC problem, it can happen to ANY encapsulated book from ANY grading company.

I agree with everything you said. Sometimes the effect of the 'slide' is so subtle you have to study the before and after scans. Whenever I receive a book purchased online, I immediately compare it to the original scan. If it shifts a little in the slab, no biggie but in this case the cover stayed put while the rest of the book shifted. Your point that it happens a lot is true, unfortunately.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Bomber-Bob

[Yorick]

21 hours ago, Ditch Fahrenheit said:

Well, it's kind of rare to find one that fits the comic book exactly.  Comic book dimensions are not a constant...they are a range.  But even if you find one that fits perfectly, it's still subject to Shaken Comic Syndrom (SCS).  The book can still move around inside, and the edges of the cover either get smashed or are caught between the two layers of plastic and torn.  This is actually more common than the detached cover example above.

One of these days I'll get my act together and make a video explaining all of this with tons of examples.  For whatever reason, this is one area of the hobby that is not well understood; in fact, most collectors aren't even aware that this kind of damage can occur.

As you might imagine, this begs a few questions about the ACTUAL grade of an encapsulated book that has been shipped through the mail.  There are tons of encapsulated books out there which are nowhere near the grade affixed to their case.  And, by the way, this isn't just a CGC problem, it can happen to ANY encapsulated book from ANY grading company.

I agree with most of what you have written.  However, the interior trough is/was adjustable to the size of the specific comic (when there is a trough).  There is an adjustment piece typically centered next to the spine.  I suppose that could also cause damage with the SCS.  It would be interesting to see an image of the full book rather than just the top portion where the staple pull shows.

[VintageComics]

There is no actual bulletproof way of shipping a comic.

Certification holders and packaging methods are designed to keep books as safe as possible but no method is perfect, unfortunately.

If you leave too much room the book can move. If you don't leave enough room the book gets bumped with every small movement.

You are simply mitigating your odds no matter what you do.