ned Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 (edited) Fantastic Four #2 lays flat, nice gloss, healthy spine with both staples attached to cover and centerfold. Main drawback is small chunk out of bottom right front cover and first 4 pages which gets smaller at each page. Edited December 29, 2018 by ned add details Lucky Baru 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoggyNelson Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 Holy smokes you have a nice one except for the tear I think it is still 5.0 ned, Lucky Baru and ComicConnoisseur 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D84 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 4.5-5.0 ned 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davet75 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I believe any Fine grade cannot have a piece missing, especially a significant cover piece (that piece looks to be at least 1/4 inch), which technically keeps this beautiful book out of even VG/F 5.0. Grade: 4.5 VG+ note: since CGC seems to use a "general overall appearance and structure grade, minus any major defects = final grade" formula, it's certainly possible this may grade higher. However, i can't think if I've seen any cgc graded 5.0 or above with a significant piece missing from the cover (a tiny corner 1/16 - 1/8 inch triangle piece definitely). Would be interested to know if anyone on the board can post a scan of such a graded book. ned and James J Johnson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ned Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 The missing corner piece is about 1/4" wide by 3/8" tall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR.X Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 5.0 ned 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 4.5, maybe 5.0... Love the date stamp... Are you thinking about getting it slabbed? ned 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 2 hours ago, The Lions Den said: 4.5, maybe 5.0... Love the date stamp... Are you thinking about getting it slabbed? This. But stopping at 4.5. I can't recall ever seeing a CGC graded silver age book with any grade attached inclusive of the term "Fine", including VG/FN, with a missing piece quite this size. Also, IMO, disqualifying it for a VG/FN if not for the cover alone, the immediate underlying pages are also similarly affected, though to a lesser degree. Presents nicely, but with accumulation of minor flaws plus the piece and pieces of pages, I'd go VG exceptional (if there is such a thing in the VG range), outside shot at 4.5. Just slightly less than your astute analysis. And +1. You have to love the historical aspect of any 1961 date stamp on silver age Marvel superhero books. Gnasher, davet75, ned and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnasher Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 21 minutes ago, James J Johnson said: This. But stopping at 4.5. I can't recall ever seeing a CGC graded silver age book with any grade attached inclusive of the term "Fine", including VG/FN, with a missing piece quite this size. Also, IMO, disqualifying it for a VG/FN if not for the cover alone, the immediate underlying pages are also similarly affected, though to a lesser degree. Presents nicely, but with accumulation of minor flaws plus the piece and pieces of pages, I'd go VG exceptional (if there is such a thing in the VG range), outside shot at 4.5. Just slightly less than your astute analysis. And +1. You have to love the historical aspect of any 1961 date stamp on silver age Marvel superhero books. I know we're in the area of size matters, J. J., imo the area of the piece missing here, http://www.dacardworld.com/comic-books/fantastic-four-12-cgc-5-0-ow-w-0006074029 is comparable to ned's copy of FF's 2:what do you think? davet75, Lucky Baru and ned 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, Gnasher said: I know we're in the area of size matters, J. J., imo the area of the piece missing here, http://www.dacardworld.com/comic-books/fantastic-four-12-cgc-5-0-ow-w-0006074029 is comparable to ned's copy of FF's 2:what do you think? I'm not a fan of books with missing pieces at all, but if I had to pick one, I'd take a comparably sized sliver over a rectangular piece. The visual impact is not as striking on this 12 as it is on the 2, where the piece makes a bellyflop compared to just a splash on the 12. The condition of this 12 is very comparable to the 2 pieces aside so you picked a great example for comparison, thank you for that. I would not quite go 5.0 on the 12, not just because of the piece but the hole through the cover in the c of epic as well as the piece, but I can definitely see 4.5 or 5.0 being representative of the 12, one ring higher than the 2. davet75, ned, The Lions Den and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 8 hours ago, ned said: Fantastic Four #2 lays flat, nice gloss, healthy spine with both staples attached to cover and centerfold. Main drawback is small chunk out of bottom right front cover and first 4 pages which gets smaller at each page. An important question based on a few things that Lion's Den and I have been discussing. Where did the 2 and 5 come from? Any info on their back story would be helpful. ned 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davet75 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, Gnasher said: I know we're in the area of size matters, J. J., imo the area of the piece missing here, http://www.dacardworld.com/comic-books/fantastic-four-12-cgc-5-0-ow-w-0006074029 is comparable to ned's copy of FF's 2:what do you think? Great work Gnasher! This indeed demonstrates that CGC has used a "general overall appearance and structure grade, minus any major defects = final grade" formula in overriding strict and technical Overstreet grading criteria. While all this suggests that the FF2 COULD grade higher than a 4.5, I agree with JJJ that the pieces out of the first few pages in addition to the cover would prevent it reaching above a 4.5. If it were the cover only, then I think there would be a chance to reach 5.0 as seen in the FF12 CGC 5.0 example that Gnasher found. Nice discussion Boardies! I feel like my grading skill improves with every book I analyze, every discussion I read, and every debate I engage in on this board. ned, The Lions Den and Gnasher 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnasher Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, James J Johnson said: I'm not a fan of books with missing pieces at all, but if I had to pick one, I'd take a comparably sized sliver over a rectangular piece. The visual impact is not as striking on this 12 as it is on the 2, where the piece makes a bellyflop compared to just a splash on the 12. The condition of this 12 is very comparable to the 2 pieces aside so you picked a great example for comparison, thank you for that. I would not quite go 5.0 on the 12, not just because of the piece but the hole through the cover in the c of epic as well as the piece, but I can definitely see 4.5 or 5.0 being representative of the 12, one ring higher than the 2. Cheers J.J., Like you I wouldn't go past the 4.5 mark on either. James J Johnson, ned, The Lions Den and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davet75 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 but related. Would be interested in everyone's analysis of Ned's FF5 book with a larger chunk missing. Here's the link: ned 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 2 hours ago, davet75 said: but related. Would be interested in everyone's analysis of Ned's FF5 book with a larger chunk missing. Here's the link: Dave, you might have missed my post. If I might ask, was this 2 from an original owner or the byproduct of a purchase from a seller? ned 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ned Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Thanks for all the input guys, I really appreciate it. I don't have much backstory for these books, I got the FF2 and FF5 at a Nashville gaming and comic shop about 6 months ago where they were hanging on the wall behind the register for about another 6 months. The clerk said they had a run brought in but the #1 was a Golden Record Reprint and these were the last two books they hadn't sold. I don't know if I will send off to CGC for grading, but if I do then I will post the results here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Baru Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 4.5 - 5.0, good luck! ned 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Knight Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 5.0 for me. Im digging the date stamps too! Both books definitely worth grading to make sure everything is 100% original also. ned 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, ned said: Thanks for all the input guys, I really appreciate it. I don't have much backstory for these books, I got the FF2 and FF5 at a Nashville gaming and comic shop about 6 months ago where they were hanging on the wall behind the register for about another 6 months. The clerk said they had a run brought in but the #1 was a Golden Record Reprint and these were the last two books they hadn't sold. I don't know if I will send off to CGC for grading, but if I do then I will post the results here. I would send them in. For no other reason than if you paid fair market value for unrestored books, and it would disturb you to discover otherwise, you may wish to seek remedy from the vendor. There are several tells for trim on the 2, both on the top and bottom, and while I can't fathom why anyone would trim a book with a piece that large that wouldn't deceptively improve the overall appearance, I can't ignore what I see as far as the abnormal top and bottom edges on it and remain mute. I'm leaning 75/25 on it being trimmed, just the cover on the top edge and both cover and pages on the bottom edge. The idea of this is further reinforced by what looks to me like black color touch on the crease in the gray area on the right bottom that suddenly disappears as it intersects the black area, a major tell for color touch. Again, why? On a book that wouldn't be improved by it, I can't imagine, but by far no stranger than many other seemingly illogical acts I've seen conducted on comics. I'm 60/40 on the color touch on the 2. I would send the 2 to CGC for grading. It's a win-win for you. If I'm right, the CGC will nail the trim on this, and you'll know. And if that's the case, then send the 5 for similar confirmation because I see the same type of tells there that I see on the 2, but to a lesser degree. If the 2 comes back purple, you're going to definitely want to follow up with submitting the 5, because chances would dictate that is too. And a shout out to LionsDen here because he pointed something out to me that would have escaped my notice because the book is missing a piece and I never would have thought to look for it. Edited August 21, 2018 by James J Johnson Gnasher, The Lions Den, ned and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunsicker Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 18 hours ago, davet75 said: I believe any Fine grade cannot have a piece missing, especially a significant cover piece (that piece looks to be at least 1/4 inch), which technically keeps this beautiful book out of even VG/F 5.0. Grade: 4.5 VG+ note: since CGC seems to use a "general overall appearance and structure grade, minus any major defects = final grade" formula, it's certainly possible this may grade higher. However, i can't think if I've seen any cgc graded 5.0 or above with a significant piece missing from the cover (a tiny corner 1/16 - 1/8 inch triangle piece definitely). Would be interested to know if anyone on the board can post a scan of such a graded book. From my collection: ned, Gnasher, davet75 and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
