Ditko's estate... 6 6

[Artboy99]

16 hours ago, comicjack said:

The sad thing aside from the money was passing away all alone that bothers me more.I know as a fan boy who grew up on his work his Spiderman will always be the best to me.

One thing about that: Ditko was a major introvert and it is well known he greatly preferred to be alone over constantly being in someone else's presence. Don't be bothered by someone living their life the way they wanted to, be happy for him.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Artboy99

[valiantman]

18 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

16 hours ago, comicjack said:

The sad thing aside from the money was passing away all alone that bothers me more.I know as a fan boy who grew up on his work his Spiderman will always be the best to me.

One thing about that: Ditko was a major introvert and it is well known he greatly preferred to be alone over constantly being in someone else's presence. Don't be bothered by someone living their life the way they wanted to, be happy for him.

"Hell is other people" -Sartre

[Artboy99]

Re: art compensation comments.

I have long wondered why it matters who created the character.

I have worked as an artist for over 30 years. I once worked for a company that created costumes, character "logos" and mascots that represented companies. I was paid a wage for my creations and my art ( it is called work for hire). If some company took the character I created for them, and then marketed it and earned billions from doing so good for them. I don't really care what someone does with something they paid me for.

Did Mr. Ditko feel the same way? Perhaps...

[Mr bla bla]

4 minutes ago, Artboy99 said:

Re: art compensation comments.

I have long wondered why it matters who created the character.

I have worked as an artist for over 30 years. I once worked for a company that created costumes, character "logos" and mascots that represented companies. I was paid a wage for my creations and my art ( it is called work for hire). If some company took the character I created for them, and then marketed it and earned billions from doing so good for them. I don't really care what someone does with something they paid me for.

Did Mr. Ditko feel the same way? Perhaps...

I think Mr. A will eventually get his time in the sunshine ...

what a ferocious dude ...

[MGsimba77]

2 hours ago, namisgr said:

I wouldn't say 'never'.  Both get co-creator credits in the Marvel movies.  But, yeah, for Kirby and his heirs especially the financial compensation never came close to matching what it should have been, either from the movie or art worlds.

I'd look at it in terms of the average casual Spider-man fan's perception. That's what I mean by never. For the most part most of them have never even heard of the names Kirby or Ditko. They likely know about Stan Lee however and would very much associate him with Spider-Man.

Stan certainly deserves his share of credit. He's responsible for Marvel comics being where it is today IMO but due to him flooding the zone with his appearances and charisma it's resulted in him getting too much credit for Spider-man in particular. The lack of awareness for the other guys is the frustrating part! Where are their props?

[Buzzetta]

I wish the outrage that people exhibit over Kirby's and Ditko's contracts over the years would exhibit even an ounce of outrage over the people that clip their nails in the subway.  There are few things worse than wondering what that little tap was on your skin only to realize the person next to you is clipping their nails.  That good sir, is the real crime. 

 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Buzzetta

[Get Marwood & I]

2 minutes ago, Buzzetta said:

I wish the outrage that people exhibit over Kirby's and Ditko's contracts over the years would exhibit even an ounce of outrage over the people that clip their nails in the subway.  There are few things worse than wondering what that little tap was on your skin only to realize the person next to you is clipping their nails.  That good sir, is the real crime. 

 

+1

It's bad enough that they take their shoes and socks off, but the nail clipping? That's a transgression too far 

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

23 minutes ago, MGsimba77 said:

For the most part most of them have never even heard of the names Kirby or Ditko. 

The poor guy....even his Attorney didn't know what he did.

That is Class. I put him right up there with the cleaning lady that ran British Intelligence Services for umpteen years and nobody knew it.

Mr Ditko missed his calling. He should have been running NSA or CIA.

Good for him. No lookitatme in him. Got to admire that.

[Unca Ben]

Pondering the Ditko situation leaves me with more questions than answers, which makes sense considering it's Ditko. 
How much is an apartment in New York City?  Did he own or rent?  Did Ditko live and work out of that apartment or did he have another New York studio for work?  Would the books he self published along with Robin Snyder provide enough income to live and work in New York (Manhattan, right?) and leave him with over a million dollar estate?  What do we really know about royalty checks or the lack of them?

I know Wally Wood tried the self-publishing route and according to biographers it didn't provide him with an adequate income.   And he wasn't living in New York City.
It doesn't seem rational to make judgments about Marvel regarding the treatment of Steve when information on the subject is mostly third-hand and anecdotal.  I'd imagine someone like Robin Snyder might be in a better position than most of us in regard to the situation. 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Unca Ben

[namisgr]

13 minutes ago, Unca Ben said:

Pondering the Ditko situation leaves me with more questions than answers, which makes sense considering it's Ditko. 
How much is an apartment in New York City?  Did he own or rent? 

According to the linked article from the New York Post, Ditko rented an apartment on West 51st street at ~$2K/month.

 

Edited August 29, 2018 by namisgr

[Unca Ben]

1 minute ago, namisgr said:

According to the linked article, Ditko rented at apartment at ~$2K/month.

That's pretty cheap.  Folks I know in New York City pay much, much more than that.  Maybe his rent was grandfathered in?  How is rent control in New York?

[Buzzetta]

2 minutes ago, Unca Ben said:

That's pretty cheap.  Folks I know in New York City pay much, much more than that.  Maybe his rent was grandfathered in?  How is rent control in New York?

That is almost half of what I know of people actively paying in Williamsburg Brooklyn. 

[namisgr]

5 minutes ago, Unca Ben said:

That's pretty cheap.  Folks I know in New York City pay much, much more than that.  Maybe his rent was grandfathered in?  How is rent control in New York?

That depends on whether Jared Kushner owns your building.  

[Unca Ben]

Even at $24K a year just for rent, Ditko and Snyder must have sold quite a lot of their self-published books every year in order to cover Steve's living expenses.  For me, it doesn't pass a sanity check.  But I'm not privy to all the information, so there's that.

[justafan]

15 hours ago, mattn792 said:

From his reclusive nature, I’m not sure Ditko cared all that much.  

Agreed.  Wasn't he a follower of Ayn Rand's objectivism philosophy?  Its a very cold and deterministic way to live that eschews many a social norm and allowance for compromise or tolerance for the sake of merit.  It can be a very selfish and lonely lifestyle.  He may not have necessarily expected to end up any differently or he would have reached out long ago.  I got the impression he grated at the notion of being known solely as a co-creator of comic characters as opposed to being an artist.  He could have made millions rivaling Stan's estate if he had self-promoted and gone on the con circuit and released commissions and did signings.  If he preserved any of the original art he did he'd have been able to sell for hundreds of thousands if not more.  I'm not saying Marvel and Stan Lee shouldn't have done more to try and pay him back and give him more royalties for his work.  I think he does deserved more credit recognition by Marvel but he definitely gets plenty of unwanted credit from his fans as noted by the many fans on here sending him letters with terse responses.  Even if he had gotten it from Marvel I'm not sure he would have accepted it. He just didn't seem to want it or care for it that much.

 

[Senormac]

2 hours ago, namisgr said:

2 hours ago, HENRYSPENCER said:

" Generally, when no relatives can be found, the entire estate goes to the state. "

LOL.  Even if I had no relatives or anyone or an organization I wanted to pass my estate onto before passing, I would at least have a specific set of instructions to have everything in my name and under my ownership burned and or destroyed before allowing the state to take ownership.  That includes leveling my home and burning all my possession if so necessary.  No way in firey, burning Hell I'd give the State department anything.

You could consider schools or charities before burning and destruction.  

or the next door neighbor 

[justafan]

1 hour ago, MGsimba77 said:

I'd look at it in terms of the average casual Spider-man fan's perception. That's what I mean by never. For the most part most of them have never even heard of the names Kirby or Ditko. They likely know about Stan Lee however and would very much associate him with Spider-Man.

Stan certainly deserves his share of credit. He's responsible for Marvel comics being where it is today IMO but due to him flooding the zone with his appearances and charisma it's resulted in him getting too much credit for Spider-man in particular. The lack of awareness for the other guys is the frustrating part! Where are their props?

It is up to us.  My son and his cousins all under 10 asked me the other day after reading ASM #7 (raw reader copy) to them during a bedtime sleepover who made that comic.  I introduced them to the co-creator/artist/writers Steve Ditko and Jack Kirby (they all knew who Stan Lee was already).  I explained how they collaborated on many superhero concepts, drew the art (not Stan Lee), and wrote the stories.  When my son asked if he could meet Mister Ditko and Mister Kirby at the next convention like he did when he met Stan Lee and got his autograph, I had to break the unfortunate news that Jack Kirby died over 20 years ago and Steve Ditko had recently passed as well.  He got a little upset and stated that we should have tried to meet them before they died.  It would be difficult getting into the reasons why that might not have been possible even when they were alive but I just left it that I wish I had and that the best way for us to honor them is to remember them and what they did through their works.  He seemed ok with that.  A week later, I was surprised when I heard my son and my younger daughter reference Mr. Ditko and Mr. Kirby when we were going to start reading issue #8. 

 

[kav]

5 hours ago, Artboy99 said:

Re: art compensation comments.

I have long wondered why it matters who created the character.

I have worked as an artist for over 30 years. I once worked for a company that created costumes, character "logos" and mascots that represented companies. I was paid a wage for my creations and my art ( it is called work for hire). If some company took the character I created for them, and then marketed it and earned billions from doing so good for them. I don't really care what someone does with something they paid me for.

Did Mr. Ditko feel the same way? Perhaps...

I agree.  My policy on all my art is if someone wants to use it go right ahead.  I dont care.  Also as a recluse myself I must tell everyone it's heaven being left alone to draw or watch movies or whatever I want to do.  There's never any arguments or anger or drama of any kind.  Low blood pressure lifestyle for sure.

Edited August 29, 2018 by kav

[NoMan]

there's so much flying around re: Ditko. Often from people that don't know sheet. We'll never know. 

[Artboy99]

14 minutes ago, NoMan said:

there's so much flying around re: Ditko. Often from people that don't know sheet. We'll never know. 

I agree, but it can be said that we do know a lot about him from his letters, comments, lack of media interest, his introverted way of living: these things all paint a picture of the guy.

We may not all agree on things, but we can all agree we admired his art.