Hulk 181 CGC 9.0 Sells for $6,550 1 1

[valiantman]

12 hours ago, Drbearsec said:

12 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Agreed I could see TMNT #1, NM #98 and Star Wars #1 also following down the same path like Hulk #181 and AF#15.

Not because they are super rare, but the demand for those 5 books TMNT #1, NM #98,Star Wars #1,Hulk #181 and AF#15 continues to grow.

ASM 129 is another.  I've seen a lot of movement on that.  Not Hulk 181 level but still.

TMNT #1 is not like any of the other books, since only 3,275 were printed.  Even if every single copy could somehow get CGC graded, that would be 3,275.  The other books listed (not AF #15 (yet)) passed that number years ago.

Edited September 4, 2018 by valiantman

[Drbearsec]

Just now, valiantman said:

TMNT #1 is not like any of the other books, since only 3,275 were printed.  Even if every single copy could somehow get CGC graded, that would be 3,725.  The other books listed (not AF #15) passed that number years ago.

That's fair as well.  Even the Second Print is on that level as well.

God I want a TMNT #1.  That and AF15 are my two biggest REALISTIC grail books (I don't consider Tec 27 a realistic book at this time for me).

[ComicConnoisseur]

8 minutes ago, valiantman said:

TMNT #1 is not like any of the other books, since only 3,275 were printed.  Even if every single copy could somehow get CGC graded, that would be 3,725.  The other books listed (not AF #15) passed that number years ago.

Good points. My contention was more about demand of these 6 books,as I can never see them never going out of style. TMNT #1, NM #98,Star Wars #1,ASM #129, Hulk #181 and AF#15.A good number of collectors are always going to want these books. Most likey they will continue to go up in value.

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by ComicConnoisseur

[valiantman]

15 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

23 minutes ago, valiantman said:

TMNT #1 is not like any of the other books, since only 3,275 were printed.  Even if every single copy could somehow get CGC graded, that would be 3,725.  The other books listed (not AF #15) passed that number years ago.

Good points. My contention was more about demand of these 6 books,as I can never see them never going out of style. TMNT #1, NM #98,Star Wars #1,ASM #129, Hulk #181 and AF#15.A good number of collectors are always going to want these books. Most likey they will continue to go up in value.

True!  Applying the standard "supply and demand" argument, the supplies of NM #98, Star Wars #1, ASM #129, and Hulk #181 being at least 7,000 slabs on the CGC census keeps the long-term prices lower than if any of those books were significantly harder to find.  Meanwhile, TMNT #1 has about 1/4th the number of CGC slabs as AF #15... and ten times fewer than even the lowest of the other four books.  I've considered TMNT #1 a seriously undervalued book for decades... because TMNT belongs in the same discussion with all these books for first appearances of household names... and there are ten times fewer, with an absolute cap on how many unslabbed copies exist.  

[mattn792]

17 hours ago, MGsimba77 said:

 

It's fake! He'll relist it a few days from now. He's already sold a couple of others only to relist them shortly after. They're just trying to push up the value with fake auctions or BIN sales

Spot on.  This same seller allegedly sold a 9.4 copy for over 9 grand in an auction listing, only to relist the exact same book a day later at $10,500 OBO.  Any "sale" from b$monk should be looked at with suspicion. 

[500Club]

6 hours ago, Beige said:

Kav is right.

Eventually #180 will be recognised for what it is - 1st Wolvie.  

I don't have either for exactly that reason.

The market had plenty of opportunity to do that three years ago, when this argument was all the rage.   What happened?  That revisionist line of thinking was rejected, and it was 181 that exploded in value.   Seems in this hobby that is based on collecting a literary medium, we value a full story introduction over a single panel, for the most part.

On the flip side, it's probably a good time to buy 180, as it should draft along in value.

[valiantman]

1 minute ago, 500Club said:

The market had plenty of opportunity to do that three years ago, when this argument was all the rage.   What happened?  That revisionist line of thinking was rejected, and it was 181 that exploded in value.   Seems in this hobby that is based on collecting a literary medium, we value a full story introduction over a single panel, for the most part.

On the flip side, it's probably a good time to buy 180, as it should draft along in value.

Unfortunately, no.  This hobby is based on cover art.  That's why Hulk #181 wins. 

[mattn792]

3 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Unfortunately, no.  This hobby is based on cover art.  That's why Hulk #181 wins. 

I had the same thought: 

180 -- one panel of Wolverine, Wendigo vs Hulk on cover. 

181 -- full Wolverine story, Wolverine vs Hulk on cover, Wendigo shakes fist in background. 

[valiantman]

1 minute ago, mattn792 said:

5 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Unfortunately, no.  This hobby is based on cover art.  That's why Hulk #181 wins. 

I had the same thought: 

180 -- one panel of Wolverine, Wendigo vs Hulk on cover. 

181 -- full Wolverine story, Wolverine vs Hulk on cover, Wendigo shakes fist in background. 

All we really need for proof is to look at a book like Jimmy Olsen #134, which has a weak-sauce appearance, single panel, for Darkseid.  If Darkseid was the focus of the cover of Jimmy Olsen #135, it would easily win the price comparison.  But, since he's not on #135 either... both books are weak-sauce and the winner is the #134. 

[500Club]

18 minutes ago, valiantman said:

20 minutes ago, 500Club said:

The market had plenty of opportunity to do that three years ago, when this argument was all the rage.   What happened?  That revisionist line of thinking was rejected, and it was 181 that exploded in value.   Seems in this hobby that is based on collecting a literary medium, we value a full story introduction over a single panel, for the most part.

On the flip side, it's probably a good time to buy 180, as it should draft along in value.

Unfortunately, no.  This hobby is based on cover art.  That's why Hulk #181 wins. 

Cover focused collecting has certainly come into vogue the last ten years or so.  It certainly wasn't what established 181 as the key book for the first 30 years, though.  How much of a factor was it in the rejection of the '180 first' movement?  I'm not sure.

The other idea I've seen put forward that has merit is 'whatever book leaves the spec station first is the winner'.

[Krydel4]

I've never been able to figure out how a full first appearance is thought of... What's the difference between this and this. One is considered a first appearance and the other a cameo. Both are one page, both characters speak and both have as much impact on the story being told in the book.

[valiantman]

11 minutes ago, 500Club said:

Cover focused collecting has certainly come into vogue the last ten years or so.  It certainly wasn't what established 181 as the key book for the first 30 years, though.  How much of a factor was it in the rejection of the '180 first' movement?  I'm not sure.

The other idea I've seen put forward that has merit is 'whatever book leaves the spec station first is the winner'.

3 minutes ago, Krydel4 said:

I've never been able to figure out how a full first appearance is thought of... What's the difference between this and this. One is considered a first appearance and the other a cameo. Both are one page, both characters speak and both have as much impact on the story being told in the book.

I feel like there's an opportunity for this hobby to correct some "information problems" like this online, similar to how it's now possible to correct some "information problems" in other aspects of life using Snopes.com.  What was believed for decades doesn't have to be "fact" when the facts can be spelled out (and shown) like your examples.  Perhaps the year 2020 will be when this hobby realizes that hindsight is 20/20. 

[kav]

1 hour ago, valiantman said:

Unfortunately, no.  This hobby is based on cover art.  That's why Hulk #181 wins. 

Then why is Jimmy Olsen #134 the valued first darkseid when he does not appear on the cover and less of him is shown than wolverine in 180?

[kav]

51 minutes ago, Krydel4 said:

I've never been able to figure out how a full first appearance is thought of... What's the difference between this and this. One is considered a first appearance and the other a cameo. Both are one page, both characters speak and both have as much impact on the story being told in the book.

Some day people are gonna look at their 180s and say face it tiger you just hit the jackpot.

[Darkowl]

I have zero reason to believe that Hulk 180 would ever become the primary Wolverine book to own. The standard has already been set in place and accepted. 

[Ryan.]

16 hours ago, Point Five said:

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[valiantman]

58 minutes ago, kav said:

2 hours ago, valiantman said:

Unfortunately, no.  This hobby is based on cover art.  That's why Hulk #181 wins. 

Then why is Jimmy Olsen #134 the valued first darkseid when he does not appear on the cover and less of him is shown than wolverine in 180?

Yes, because there is no alternative.

If Jimmy Olsen #135 had a full view of Darkseid, it would be multiples of the #134 value... but Darkseid doesn't have a great (early) cover, so the 1st panel appearance is the only option.

[500Club]

1 hour ago, valiantman said:

I feel like there's an opportunity for this hobby to correct some "information problems" like this online, similar to how it's now possible to correct some "information problems" in other aspects of life using Snopes.com.  What was believed for decades doesn't have to be "fact" when the facts can be spelled out (and shown) like your examples.  Perhaps the year 2020 will be when this hobby realizes that hindsight is 20/20. 

The market has been pretty deaf to any attempts to impose some sort of order.  X-Men 266/Annual 14 is a situation that has been known and understood for years, and there has been zero shift in sentiment.   We are, as a group, pretty resistant to change.

[valiantman]

Just now, 500Club said:

1 hour ago, valiantman said:

I feel like there's an opportunity for this hobby to correct some "information problems" like this online, similar to how it's now possible to correct some "information problems" in other aspects of life using Snopes.com.  What was believed for decades doesn't have to be "fact" when the facts can be spelled out (and shown) like your examples.  Perhaps the year 2020 will be when this hobby realizes that hindsight is 20/20. 

The market has been pretty deaf to any attempts to impose some sort of order.  X-Men 266/Annual 14 is a situation that has been known and understood for years, and there has been zero shift in sentiment.   We are, as a group, pretty resistant to change.

Agreed.  However, I think there can be some effect if we put the details right in front of collectors.  We need something like a "snopes.com" for first appearances, where we show the facts (panels, covers, dates) and some prices.  I think collectors would be just as willing to "bargain hunt" on decades-old early appearance books as they already do on ridiculous ratio modern variants.  In fact, I'd rather see collectors using facts, panels, covers, dates, and stories, than retailer ratios and herd mentality. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

2 hours ago, valiantman said:

both books are weak-sauce

I once put weak-sauce on my burrito. 

It turned into a kale wrap.