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Hulk 181 CGC 9.0 Sells for $6,550
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Started by Darkowl,

93 posts in this topic

Darkowl

Darkowl

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5 minutes ago, Drbearsec said:

Not stagnant.  But a faster growth rate.  It's doubtful 180 will ever match 181, but if it, for example, ended up being 75-80% of the cost, I wouldn't be surprised.

Seems like the value of 181 would have to be pretty close to stagnant if 180 ever reaches that high of a percentage.

I personally could never see that happening. People would just skip over 180 and buy 181 at that price point. I know I would if i could only afford one.

Edited by Darkowl
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Drbearsec

Drbearsec

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1 minute ago, Darkowl said:

Seems like the value of 181 would have to be pretty close to stagnant if 180 ever reaches that high of a percentage. I personally could never see that happening. People would just skip over 180 and buy 181 at that price point.

Maybe maybe not... 80% may be a bit high.  Point is there is a lot of room for growth as the book is priced out for normal people.  As that happens 180 is going to be a natural choice.

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Darkowl

Darkowl

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1 minute ago, Drbearsec said:

Maybe maybe not... 80% may be a bit high.  Point is there is a lot of room for growth as the book is priced out for normal people.  As that happens 180 is going to be a natural choice.

Now that's a point I could agree with. 

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SteppinRazor

SteppinRazor

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23 hours ago, valiantman said:

Seems like people aren't getting it.  No one thinks Hulk #180 will be worth more than Hulk #181.  But if you can get a Hulk #180 for $1,000 and the same grade in a Hulk #181 for $6,000 today... then the recognition of Hulk #180 as a better first appearance than a lot of other characters could make that future ratio more like $2,000 for Hulk #180 vs. $6,000 for Hulk #181, and the book which has the most growth would be #180.

No, I get it.  How's the bold gonna happen though?

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valiantman

valiantman

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11 hours ago, Drbearsec said:

Not stagnant.  But a faster growth rate.  It's doubtful 180 will ever match 181, but if it, for example, ended up being 75-80% of the cost, I wouldn't be surprised.

Even if Hulk 180 is 30% of the Hulk 181 price, that would be faster growth for the 180. :foryou:

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Tony S

Tony S

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On 9/4/2018 at 5:08 AM, Beige said:

Kav is right.

Eventually #180 will be recognised for what it is - 1st Wolvie.  

I don't have either for exactly that reason.

 

first-Wolverine.png.e589cc27cf860db50c8bac3eec975bf3.png

 

 

There is no "eventually". Hulk 180 IS RECOGNIZED as the first appearance of Wolverine. A cameo 1st appearance, on the last page in one panel. 

This appearance was a complete surprise. There was no build up to Wolverine's appearance. The story isn't about nor does it lead up to Wolverine's appearance. 

Hulk 181 is a done deal. It's the most desirable book. Wolverine's full appearance The entire story is about Wolverine, he's not just on the cover but he's on a iconic, classic & widely imitated cover. 

Hulk 180 continues to increase in value just like 181. But it is never, ever closing the gap and going to be worth the same or more.  And there's no real reason to debate. Just buy both. If you can afford a 181 you can most certainly afford a 180. 

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Drbearsec

Drbearsec

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4 minutes ago, Tony S said:

There is no "eventually". Hulk 180 IS RECOGNIZED as the first appearance of Wolverine. A cameo 1st appearance, on the last page in one panel. 

This appearance was a complete surprise. There was no build up to Wolverine's appearance. The story isn't about nor does it lead up to Wolverine's appearance. 

Hulk 181 is a done deal. It's the most desirable book. Wolverine's full appearance The entire story is about Wolverine, he's not just on the cover but he's on a iconic, classic & widely imitated cover. 

Hulk 180 continues to increase in value just like 181. But it is never, ever closing the gap and going to be worth the same or more.  And there's no real reason to debate. Just buy both. If you can afford a 181 you can most certainly afford a 180. 

We’re geeks.  Debating stuff that isn’t important like it is important is what we do

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Tony S

Tony S

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People have asked about Jimmy Olsen 134 (1st Darkseid) and ASM 43 (1st MJW) - which are cameos -   in terms of discussing how they get higher values than later, full appearances. When Incredible Hulk 180 has - as cameo's go - a pretty nice panel.  But is worth much less than 181 and it's full appearance 

This is sorta sociology or social psychology. It's easy to observe what individuals and the masses are actually DOING.  But WHY they are doing it is a lot harder to pin down. 

My observation would be this.....

1) When there is a long lead up to a cameo first appearance - like there was with MJW - then that first time we really get a look at the character becomes the most desirable.  Readers had been teased with Aunt May trying to fix Peter up on a blind date with her next door neighbor's niece for a couple of years. Peter tried his best to get out of it. When Peter -  and readers - finally get to meet Mary Jane she proves to be a bombshell.  So this is the first appearance - even though a cameo - is more important to collectors. The OPG and grading companies do now note issue 44 as her first full appearance. But 43 remains the more desired copy. Because of the build up. And perhaps because "full" appearances of SUPPORTING characters aren't as big a deal as full appearances of a new super-hero or super-villain. MJW has in the past disappeared for years at a time. 

2) When the introduction of a major character has more than one cameo - like Darkseid - before their first full appearance then it appears that first cameo often becomes the most desired and valuable. 

3) Rarity can always play into it. It's very likely Forever People #1 (1st full Darkseid)  sold much better - and had a lot more collectors saving it - then Jimmy Olsen 134. Rarity most certainly can affect values. In the past collectors  would often ask whey X-Men 94 in 9.8 is worth more than GS X-Men 1 in 9.8 (the gap has closed recently) The reason is because there are 155 unrestored CGC 9.8's of GSX 1. Versus 34 CGC unrestored X-Men 94's

 

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Tony S

Tony S

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There are not hard and fast rules collecting follows. Nor is collecting entirely logical.  Collecting comic books actually seems entirely illogical if given much thought.  It was not just recently discovered the Wolverine appears in one panel on the last page of Hulk 180. Fandom has known that since the beginning. Fandom has had  44 years to consider this. In fact in the Overstreet Price guide for a good number of years - I'd have to look it up to see when - Hulk 180 was noted as the first app of Wolverine and it was listed for more $$. So comic collectors have - over the decades - MOVED TO the opinion that Hulk 181 is the much more important appearance. 

For those of you absolutely, positively convinced that eventually fandom will see the light and (move back to) paying as much or even more Incredible for Hulk 180 as they do for 181, just go buy every copy of 180 you can. Why would you want to convince anyone that this is hugely overlooked and a gold mine just waiting until you have say 100 copies or so of 180?

If you collect Wolverine, just aspire to own both. 
 

Edited by Tony S
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delekkerste

delekkerste

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On 9/6/2018 at 2:56 PM, Tony S said:

There is no "eventually". Hulk 180 IS RECOGNIZED as the first appearance of Wolverine. 

Hulk 181 is a done deal. It's the most desirable book. 

Yes and Yes.  This reminds me of a conversation I had with the owner of the original cover art to Marvel Graphic Novel #4 (1st appearance of the New Mutants).  I am the owner of the original cover art to New Mutants #1.  MGN #4 cover owner says to me something like, "Well, if your cover is worth $X, mine is worth more, because I have the first appearance".  No question that his is the first appearance, but, there's also no question that mine is the more popular and desirable cover.  Same deal with Hulk #180 and #181.  The #180 is the first appearance.  Full stop.  But, the #181 is the more desirable book.  Full stop.  

Just because a book is the first appearance doesn't mean it has to be more valuable.  Venom first appears on the last page of ASM #299, but ASM #300 is the more desirable book.  X-Men #94 (the 2nd appearance of the new X-Men) is more valuable than GSXM #1 (1st app.) because it is main run and harder to find in grade. Now, each case is different; in Hulk #180/181's case, the market has decreed that the full Wolvie cover and story in #181 is more valuable than the first appearance in #180. :sumo: 

Edited by delekkerste
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valiantman

valiantman

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10 minutes ago, delekkerste said:

Just because a book is the first appearance doesn't mean it has to be more valuable. 

Spawn #1 is the quintessential case for this.  There are so many direct editions of Spawn #1 that it will never be the most valuable Spawn book, in fact, it is likely to be the least valuable of any book that has any kind of claim at an early Spawn appearance, but Spawn #1 will always be the first appearance of Spawn.  

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SteppinRazor

SteppinRazor

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8 hours ago, delekkerste said:

Yes and Yes.  This reminds me of a conversation I had with the owner of the original cover art to Marvel Graphic Novel #4 (1st appearance of the New Mutants).  I am the owner of the original cover art to New Mutants #1.  MGN #4 cover owner says to me something like, "Well, if your cover is worth $X, mine is worth more, because I have the first appearance".  No question that his is the first appearance, but, there's also no question that mine is the more popular and desirable cover.  Same deal with Hulk #180 and #181.  The #180 is the first appearance.  Full stop.  But, the #181 is the more desirable book.  Full stop.  

Just because a book is the first appearance doesn't mean it has to be more valuable.  Venom first appears on the last page of ASM #299, but ASM #300 is the more desirable book.  X-Men #94 (the 2nd appearance of the new X-Men) is more valuable than GSXM #1 (1st app.) because it is main run and harder to find in grade. Now, each case is different; in Hulk #180/181's case, the market has decreed that the full Wolvie cover and story in #181 is more valuable than the first appearance in #180. :sumo: 

Most of the cause of debate I think is that the term 'first appearance' has become a lazy justifier.  It's like how we take a horrific day in American history and boil it down to the word, "Nynilevin".  It just takes too long and causes too much room for confusion for the hobby, moving to keys only, to have to describe nuance to justify why this and not that.  Human beings just don't care enough about descriptive precision.

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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

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:news: Own both Hulk 180 and 181 and stop your pointless complaining.

We have enough 1st appearance key comics garnished in disgraceful covers that I am glad the hobby deems other cameo 1st app. as the cheap knock off to their 1st full appearance.

Isn't it bad enough characters such as Thanos, Doctor Strange, Darkseid, and Venom for their first appearance are not even on the cover?  If God did exist then a character like Venom's first appearance should have been ASM 316.  While I love ASM 300 the cover isn't Venom!

So some of you can take your laughable Hulk 180 and get off my lawn with your trash! 

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ComicConnoisseur

ComicConnoisseur

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On 9/6/2018 at 3:27 PM, Tony S said:

Jimmy Olsen 134 (1st Darkseid)

I don't think this book will ever get really important like some people think, just for the fact if ever he does play a big role in a DC movie most of mainstream will think of him as a Thanos rip-off.

Yep, Darkseid came first in comics but there is no way DC will ever make Darkseid more popular like the Thanos of the movies is.

Image result for thanos snap

plus the way DC universe movies are going now it might be years before a important Darkseid appearance in the movies.

So I be cautious with ever thinking Darkseid's first appearance would be considered iconic like Wolverine`s, or even Thanos`s for that matter.

Edited by ComicConnoisseur
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