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Batman #641 SPOILERS ALERT

Started by Hobgoblin,

69 posts in this topic

Kevin Boyd

Kevin Boyd

Posted
Posted

But... I'm not so sure Jason Todd is sane... especially if a Lazarus pit was used to resurrect him... and where the hell has he been all these years, because he's clearly aged.

 

In comparison with the other Bat-villains he's clearly a lot less insane than say the Joker, Two-Face, Scarecrow, etc.

 

In fact, he's got a lot more in common with the smarter Bat-villains like Ra's - people fighting for a higher purpose by using more extreme methods to achieve results - so it wouldn't be a surprise for him to have strong links to the supposedly deceased leader of the League of Assassins.

 

I'm also interested to learn what he's been up to. I think it's been at least four or five years since he "died" in bat-time, so that would make him an older teenager (presuming he was around 14-16 when he was "killed" by the Joker).

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Foolkiller

Foolkiller

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Yeah, I think Todd should be in his 20s, but what happened... somebody rescued him right away after he got blown up by the Joker? Of course, everyone's sane compared to the Joker and Two-Face, and Todd is an interesting villian... I think he was about 16 when he died, and I would say 4 years in bat-time has passed...

 

I think of it this way:

 

Grayson is Bats' partner for about 6/7 years, Jason Todd 1 1/2, Tim Drake about 3-4 years... making Bats about 33/34 right now, which seems about right.

 

But what the heck has Jason been doing -- ?

 

Now... y'know who's another sacred cow Marvel hasn't revived yet... Captain Mar-vell... I wonder how fans would react to his reappearance?

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awe4one

awe4one

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Now... y'know who's another sacred cow Marvel hasn't revived yet... Captain Mar-vell... I wonder how fans would react to his reappearance?

 

It's only a matter of time...and frankly I'm surprised he hasn't already returned.

 

Jim

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awe4one

awe4one

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While I don't completely disagree with you, I think that ultimately depends on the characters themselves, how they died, and whether they make better characters out of the picture rather than in it.

 

Was there any great story that came as a result of a character coming back to life after a significant death? I can't think of any off the top of my head...

 

Jim

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Kevin Boyd

Kevin Boyd

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There have been many great stories featuring characters that were once dead but have subsequently returned...

 

Just a few off the top of my head...

 

Thanos....

Aunt May...

Hal Jordan...

Oliver Queen...

Reed Richards...

Captain America...

Superman...

The Thing...

Adam Warlock...

 

Death and rebirth are themes that reappear often in myths and legends.

 

And Mar-vell has returned a few times, however he doesn't actually come back as a living character. The Surfer met and talked with him in the afterlife. I think Genis-vell had a chance to talk with him as well in one of Peter David's Captain Marvel issue.

 

Of course, he was a significant player in Alex Ross' Earth X trilogy.

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awe4one

awe4one

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OK...maybe I should rephrase the question...

 

What resurrection was as memorable or surpassed their death story? Off your list I'd say, maybe, Thanos and Hal Jordan.

 

No one really believed the rest of the characters on your list, other than maybe the first three, were going to stay dead or the resurrection stories were sub-par to the death stories. Come-on...do you truly believe the Aunt May return trumped her death?

 

Point is...the resurrection stories rarely has the same emotional impact as the death...

 

Jim

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shrunkenhead

shrunkenhead

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I just read 641, and you know, I can't decide what to make of this story. I must say that I am intruiged and want to read more, so I guess that's really what it's all about. But when the story is over and done with, I'm not sure how I'll feel.

 

When did Todd first die, around '88 or '89? I remember being a kid at the LCS and asking the owner about the 900 call. "What was your vote?" I asked. "Death," he said, "Twice."

 

I just started getting back into reading superhero moderns about a year ago, after a very long absence (what can I say, I went "vertigo" for a little while there). The more I read them, the more I'm reminded of daily soaps that my mom and grandma used to force me to watch when I was little. It's really the same thing, isn't it? Death, rebirth, secret identites, scandals, tragedies, new additions to the family, power struggles, etc. It's just in comics there's a lot more punching involved.

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Kevin Boyd

Kevin Boyd

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Is this really a resurrection story? Hal Jordan, Oliver Queen, Thanos, even Aunt May all had storylines which showed or explained the how and why of their return up front.

 

Jason Todd's story hasn't been told - so far he's just been revealed as alive - and the man behind the mask of a major new player in Gotham's underworld. So far I'm intrigued by the possibilities this story has raised. That being said I'm not a big fan of Judd Winick's but I'm definitely enjoying the Red Hood storyline a lot more than Death in the Family (which was written by Jim Starlin, one of my favourite writers).

 

And they don't have to rush the hows and whys yet. They can milk the mystery of this for some time, but from what I understand someone in the Society has been not only restoring the memories of mind-wiped villains but actually reviving deceased villains as well.... this person may have also revived Todd to be an instrument against his former mentor.

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drice6900

drice6900

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My theory: Bucky and Jason Todd are the same and will be the focal point for the next huge Marvel/DC crossover insane.gif

 

Seriously though, look at the artwork. They look an awful lot alike...

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rob_react

rob_react

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Has Whedon really explained how and why Colossus is back? makepoint.gif

 

He basically said he didn't die like everyone thought.

 

What was funny about that for me is, I never knew that he'd died until they brought him back 27_laughing.gif

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drice6900

drice6900

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Has Whedon really explained how and why Colossus is back? makepoint.gif

 

He basically said he didn't die like everyone thought.

 

What was funny about that for me is, I never knew that he'd died until they brought him back 27_laughing.gif

 

foreheadslap.gif

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Jagull

Jagull

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Has Whedon really explained how and why Colossus is back? makepoint.gif

 

He basically said he didn't die like everyone thought.

what what i've heard (i'm missing #4, but have the rest of the issues. Stopped reading it until i get #4) is that it wasnt his body that was cremated.

 

When he injected the Legacy virus cure into him, the XM assumed he was dead. Turned out that Ord picked up his body and switched it with an impostor.

 

There was a hole in the comics - they showed his "death" and a cremation but not what happened in-between. Whedon must have found this and decide to use it 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

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Hobgoblin

Hobgoblin

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Has Whedon really explained how and why Colossus is back? makepoint.gif

 

He basically said he didn't die like everyone thought.

what what i've heard (i'm missing #4, but have the rest of the issues. Stopped reading it until i get #4) is that it wasnt his body that was cremated.

 

When he injected the Legacy virus cure into him, the XM assumed he was dead. Turned out that Ord picked up his body and switched it with an impostor.

 

There was a hole in the comics - they showed his "death" and a cremation but not what happened in-between. Whedon must have found this and decide to use it 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

893scratchchin-thumb.gif I have Uncanny #390, but have never read it. Maybe I'll look through it to see just what happened in there.

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plitch

plitch

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I think of it this way:

 

Grayson is Bats' partner for about 6/7 years, Jason Todd 1 1/2, Tim Drake about 3-4 years... making Bats about 33/34 right now, which seems about right.

 

But what the heck has Jason been doing -- ?

 

I can't remember where I read it (my guess is newsarama.com) but Winick said something to the effect of-- Go back and re-read "Hush". There are instances in the Clayface/Batman fight where it just might be Jason fighting, not Clayface. Jason has been around.

 

I know... I know... This is the guy who put the Hal Jordan statue on Oa... but, I do enjoy the way all the DC writers keep the fans guessing.

 

And on the Marvel front, I am amazed that I am reading Captain America again.

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Foolkiller

Foolkiller

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Frankly, I think that Winick's explanation is there is total garbage. The whole deal is that Jason started the fight and Clayface finished it? Well I think it's Winick who needs to reread that -- there's no point where the switch could have been made... and why would Jason team up with the other villians (when his supposed goal is take them down using the methods Bats won't?) to mess with Bats. Doesn't make sense.

 

I find Winick to be one of the absolute weakest of the mainstream DC writers. He doesn't think his plots through, and his dialog is general weak at best.

 

Although Brubaker on Cap, has, as you noted Paul, been excellent.

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