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Marvel Developing Winter Soldier-Falcon Limited Series for Disney’s Streaming Service
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Started by MediumLover,

1,118 posts in this topic

Bosco685

Bosco685

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

This is a great film, and one of the few MCU films with a character arc that happens throughout the entire movie's three acts. Iron Man can't say that. Captain America First Avenger can't say that. Thor can say that.

The above scene from Captain Marvel, however, isn't a training montage, so it's irrelevant to the discussion of great training montages in the MCU.

:roflmao:

Pure Disney response. It had everything. A noun. A verb. Even periods at the end of sentences. Incredible!

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@therealsilvermane

@therealsilvermane

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

Yea I gave up questioning the reality of bouncing the shield back or catching it decades ago back when they were doing it in the comics.  It doesn't make sense in almost any way I can work out, but meh, I'm kinda fine with it.  It's dumb, but only a little.  (shrug)

The way the vibranium Shield bounces off objects at full speed, I believe, is due to vibranium's unique molecular structure. While vibranium perfectly absorbs sonic energy, actual kinetic energy directed at vibranium is perfectly reflected. For example, in Avengers when Thor strikes the Shield with Mjolnir, the awesome kinetic energy from the strike is reflected as a shock wave that levels the woods around the three heroes.

In a moving situation, the Shield almost works in a Newtonian vacuum, meaning if the Shield is moving, when it strikes an object, the kinetic energy from the impact does not affect the Shield's velocity because the unique molecular structure of vibranium reflects the kinetic energy back to the non-vibranium structure being hit, whether it's a person or a tree. And at the same time, the vibranium Shield loses very little of its own kinetic energy, again because of the unique molecular structure of vibranium. The only force affecting the Shield is gravity, so as the Shield bounces off objects or other human beings after Sam or Steve throws it, it returns to the thrower (if thrown at the right angles like a cue ball in pool) at almost the same speed as when he threw it, because of vibranium's conservation of energy.

Edited by @therealsilvermane
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Bosco685

Bosco685

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9 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Now you're just trolling and making no sense at all.

Welcome to the world of Silver Main Mane.

Meanwhile, you original stated it is 'one of the best scenes to ever come out of the MCU' - your words. Everything lately has to be the GREATEST EVER GOLLY GEEWILLIKERS and TYPICAL DISNEY GREATNESS. Now you wonder why people ask if you work for Disney. It's over-the-top fanaticism versus fan excitement.

That scene with Sam IS NOT the best scenes ever to come out of the MCU. The MCU has been packed with amazing scenes over the years that would clearly surpass this. Period! 

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@therealsilvermane

@therealsilvermane

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1 minute ago, drotto said:

Seriously, how much does Disney pay you or what perks do you get.  I want in.

I'm a fan of the MCU. The MCU puts out great stuff and I'm acknowledging it. This is a forum about comic book movies used by comic book and movie fans. How is anything I'm saying indicative of me being some kind of Disney plant which you are accusing me of (a bit jokingly yes I know)?

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drotto

drotto

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Posted
Just now, @therealsilvermane said:

I'm a fan of the MCU. The MCU puts out great stuff and I'm acknowledging it. This is a forum about comic book movies used by comic book and movie fans. How is anything I'm saying indicative of me being some kind of Disney plant which you are accusing me of (a bit jokingly yes I know)?

I love the MCU also, but I do not act like Disney and the MCU and do no wrong.  I try and be balanced, and will acknowledge the great and the bad. I know some of my opinions may not be popular. I have never seen you make any negative comments about any MCU product.

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Bosco685

Bosco685

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

I'm a fan of the MCU. The MCU puts out great stuff and I'm acknowledging it. This is a forum about comic book movies used by comic book and movie fans. How is anything I'm saying indicative of me being some kind of Disney plant which you are accusing me of (a bit jokingly yes I know)?

When you are so fanatical over a studio that then alters reality - to include convincing you to be negative to other studio outputs because of that - mentally that's taken you too far to one side.

But then when everything they put out is THE BEST and THE GREATEST and it causes you to talk down previous MCU productions to boost the new content. Well. Something's definitely off there.

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@therealsilvermane

@therealsilvermane

Posted
Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

That scene with Sam IS NOT the best scenes ever to come out of the MCU. The MCU has been packed with amazing scenes over the years that would clearly surpass this. Period!

Let me break down the power of Sam's training montage for the jaded and insensitive types.

Yes, there are bigger battle scenes in the MCU with lots of explosions or much grittier scenes of heroes dying or struggling, but Sam finally accepting the mantle and training with the Shield is IMO a turning point for both the MCU and comic book movies.

There is the quiet social implication of an African-American man accepting the mantle of Captain America within the MCU story and also being allowed by a major cultural gatekeeper, Disney, to become Captain America in the first place. When Sam's nephews (is one of them Jim Wilson btw?) touch the Shield with their fingers and he smiles down at them, it represents within the super-hero comic book culture which has taken over the world, that a black kid in America can strive for something greater and maybe achieve it. And not only does Sam accept the mantle of the Shield, we see him indeed succeed with it as he starts off fumbling the Shield at full speed but then progresses to someone who can wield the Shield deserving of Captain America, maybe just not with as much oomph behind the throws that you'd get from a super soldier. With this montage, Sam proves that he's physically deserving of the Shield's legacy.

Training montages can be some of the most powerful scenes from movies. In Rocky, the best scene is arguably our hero running through the streets of Philly with a crowd behind him as he breaks away and runs up the steps to the Philly Museum of Art. Here, the movie shows that not only is the world inspired by this underdog, but that our hero finally believes in himself after years of self-doubt. As much as I love the MCU, we just don't get a lot of scenes like that. The training/power-up montages of Iron Man or Ant-Man were humorous and well done, but lacked the Rocky-like seriousness of Sam's training montage. Like Rocky, Sam finally believes he is worthy of the Shield, and when he catches it as it's about to take his head off, he proves he's also capable of wielding the Shield. Also throw in a full orchestra emotional version of Sam's theme music and it's a very emotional scene. For me at least.

If anything, it's the best scene IMO in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. And for me, it's one of the most powerful single scenes I've seen in an MCU film.

Edited by @therealsilvermane
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jcjames

jcjames

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

Yea I gave up questioning the reality of bouncing the shield back or catching it decades ago back when they were doing it in the comics.  It doesn't make sense in almost any way I can work out, but meh, I'm kinda fine with it.  It's dumb, but only a little.  (shrug)

To head off the disbelief I always imagined the shield had "Mjolnir-like" properties that allowed Cap to control it with his super-power abilities... or something like that.

 

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Bosco685

Bosco685

Posted
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8 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Let me break down the power of Sam's training montage for the jaded and insensitive types.

Yes, there are bigger battle scenes in the MCU with lots of explosions or much grittier scenes of heroes dying or struggling, but Sam finally accepting the mantle and training with the Shield is IMO a turning point for both the MCU and comic book movies.

There is the quiet social implication of an African-American man accepting the mantle of Captain America within the MCU story and also being allowed by a major cultural gatekeeper, Disney, to become Captain America in the first place. When Sam's nephews (is one of them Jim Wilson btw?) touch the Shield with their fingers and he smiles down at them, it represents within the super-hero comic book culture which has taken over the world, that a black kid in America can strive for something greater and maybe achieve it. And not only does Sam accept the mantle of the Shield, we see him indeed succeed with it as he starts off fumbling the Shield at full speed but then progresses to someone who can wield the Shield deserving of Captain America, maybe just not with as much oomph behind the throws that you'd get from a super soldier. With this montage, Sam proves that he's physically deserving of the Shield's legacy.

Training montages can be some of the most powerful scenes from movies. In Rocky, the best scene is arguably our hero running through the streets of Philly with a crowd behind him as he breaks away and runs up the steps to the Philly Museum of Art. Here, the movie shows that not only is the world inspired by this underdog, but that our hero finally believes in himself after years of self-doubt. As much as I love the MCU, we just don't get a lot of scenes like that. The training/power-up montages of Iron Man or Ant-Man were humorous and well done, but lacked the Rocky-like seriousness of Sam's training montage. Like Rocky, Sam finally believes he is worthy of the Shield, and when he catches it as it's about to take his head off, he proves he's also capable of wielding the Shield. Also throw in a full orchestra emotional version of Sam's theme music and it's a very emotional scene. For me at least.

If anything, it's the best scene IMO in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. And for me, it's one of the most powerful single scenes I've seen in an MCU film.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts why this is one of the best scenes in the MCU. Very much appreciated. Ludicrous. But well-intended.

'jaded and insensitive types' :roflmao:

I hope those Disneyland passes have been worth your marketing.

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bb8

bb8

Posted
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32 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Let me break down the power of Sam's training montage for the jaded and insensitive types.

Yes, there are bigger battle scenes in the MCU with lots of explosions or much grittier scenes of heroes dying or struggling, but Sam finally accepting the mantle and training with the Shield is IMO a turning point for both the MCU and comic book movies.

There is the quiet social implication of an African-American man accepting the mantle of Captain America within the MCU story and also being allowed by a major cultural gatekeeper, Disney, to become Captain America in the first place. When Sam's nephews (is one of them Jim Wilson btw?) touch the Shield with their fingers and he smiles down at them, it represents within the super-hero comic book culture which has taken over the world, that a black kid in America can strive for something greater and maybe achieve it. And not only does Sam accept the mantle of the Shield, we see him indeed succeed with it as he starts off fumbling the Shield at full speed but then progresses to someone who can wield the Shield deserving of Captain America, maybe just not with as much oomph behind the throws that you'd get from a super soldier. With this montage, Sam proves that he's physically deserving of the Shield's legacy.

Training montages can be some of the most powerful scenes from movies. In Rocky, the best scene is arguably our hero running through the streets of Philly with a crowd behind him as he breaks away and runs up the steps to the Philly Museum of Art. Here, the movie shows that not only is the world inspired by this underdog, but that our hero finally believes in himself after years of self-doubt. As much as I love the MCU, we just don't get a lot of scenes like that. The training/power-up montages of Iron Man or Ant-Man were humorous and well done, but lacked the Rocky-like seriousness of Sam's training montage. Like Rocky, Sam finally believes he is worthy of the Shield, and when he catches it as it's about to take his head off, he proves he's also capable of wielding the Shield. Also throw in a full orchestra emotional version of Sam's theme music and it's a very emotional scene. For me at least.

If anything, it's the best scene IMO in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. And for me, it's one of the most powerful single scenes I've seen in an MCU film.

Talkin' bout a MONTAAAAGE!!

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drotto

drotto

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Let me break down the power of Sam's training montage for the jaded and insensitive types.

Yes, there are bigger battle scenes in the MCU with lots of explosions or much grittier scenes of heroes dying or struggling, but Sam finally accepting the mantle and training with the Shield is IMO a turning point for both the MCU and comic book movies.

There is the quiet social implication of an African-American man accepting the mantle of Captain America within the MCU story and also being allowed by a major cultural gatekeeper, Disney, to become Captain America in the first place. When Sam's nephews (is one of them Jim Wilson btw?) touch the Shield with their fingers and he smiles down at them, it represents within the super-hero comic book culture which has taken over the world, that a black kid in America can strive for something greater and maybe achieve it. And not only does Sam accept the mantle of the Shield, we see him indeed succeed with it as he starts off fumbling the Shield at full speed but then progresses to someone who can wield the Shield deserving of Captain America, maybe just not with as much oomph behind the throws that you'd get from a super soldier. With this montage, Sam proves that he's physically deserving of the Shield's legacy.

Training montages can be some of the most powerful scenes from movies. In Rocky, the best scene is arguably our hero running through the streets of Philly with a crowd behind him as he breaks away and runs up the steps to the Philly Museum of Art. Here, the movie shows that not only is the world inspired by this underdog, but that our hero finally believes in himself after years of self-doubt. As much as I love the MCU, we just don't get a lot of scenes like that. The training/power-up montages of Iron Man or Ant-Man were humorous and well done, but lacked the Rocky-like seriousness of Sam's training montage. Like Rocky, Sam finally believes he is worthy of the Shield, and when he catches it as it's about to take his head off, he proves he's also capable of wielding the Shield. Also throw in a full orchestra emotional version of Sam's theme music and it's a very emotional scene. For me at least.

If anything, it's the best scene IMO in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. And for me, it's one of the most powerful single scenes I've seen in an MCU film.

The main problem behind your entire argument is there is not a single person watching this show that doubts that Sam will take up the mantel, and has already been anointed as the successor.  We were told this very clearly when Steve gave Sam the shield.  In addition by giving him the shield, Steve is acknowledging he already has the skills to use it. The audience already knows he is worthy, he does not need to prove it to us. Yes, the show maps out Sam proving to himself he is worthy, but a training montage is filler when everyone already knows the outcome, and his doubts are mentally based as opposed to physically based. 

 

If you think this is the best scene yet in the MCU is question what films you have been watching for 10 years.

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@therealsilvermane

@therealsilvermane

Posted
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1 minute ago, drotto said:

The main problem behind your entire argument is there is not a single person watching this show that doubts that Sam will take up the mantel, and has already been anointed as the successor.  We were told this very clearly when Steve gave Sam the shield.  In addition by giving him the shield, Steve is acknowledging he already has the skills to use it. The audience already knows he is worthy, he does not need to prove it to us. Yes, the show maps out Sam proving to himself he is worthy, but a training montage is filler when everyone already knows the outcome, and his doubts are mentally based as opposed to physically based. 

Except Sam then refused the mantle and gave the Shield to the Smithsonian Institute in Episode One. For four episodes, Sam was arguing that he wasn't worthy of the mantle and that only Steve Rogers was worthy of that Shield. Sure, Steve believed in Sam, but Sam didn't believe in Sam, and within the story, the outcome was still in doubt until Episode Five.

And part of the power of FWS is that it's showing us why Sam Wilson is worthy, not just telling us because Steve Rogers says he is. When Sam chooses what he thinks is right over self-glory by giving up the Shield, he kind of did the same thing George Washington did when he stepped down from the presidency after two terms, and was on the way to showing us he's worthy. When Sam chooses empathy and diplomacy over being just another state cop in dealing with Karli, he showed why he's worthy of taking "America" down the right road. And when Sam catches a full speed Shield with both hands as it's about to take off his head, he shows us he now has the basic skills to be the next guy who carries the Shield of Captain America.

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Let me break down the power of Sam's training montage for the jaded and insensitive types.

Yes, there are bigger battle scenes in the MCU with lots of explosions or much grittier scenes of heroes dying or struggling, but Sam finally accepting the mantle and training with the Shield is IMO a turning point for both the MCU and comic book movies.

There is the quiet social implication of an African-American man accepting the mantle of Captain America within the MCU story and also being allowed by a major cultural gatekeeper, Disney, to become Captain America in the first place. When Sam's nephews (is one of them Jim Wilson btw?) touch the Shield with their fingers and he smiles down at them, it represents within the super-hero comic book culture which has taken over the world, that a black kid in America can strive for something greater and maybe achieve it. And not only does Sam accept the mantle of the Shield, we see him indeed succeed with it as he starts off fumbling the Shield at full speed but then progresses to someone who can wield the Shield deserving of Captain America, maybe just not with as much oomph behind the throws that you'd get from a super soldier. With this montage, Sam proves that he's physically deserving of the Shield's legacy.

Training montages can be some of the most powerful scenes from movies. In Rocky, the best scene is arguably our hero running through the streets of Philly with a crowd behind him as he breaks away and runs up the steps to the Philly Museum of Art. Here, the movie shows that not only is the world inspired by this underdog, but that our hero finally believes in himself after years of self-doubt. As much as I love the MCU, we just don't get a lot of scenes like that. The training/power-up montages of Iron Man or Ant-Man were humorous and well done, but lacked the Rocky-like seriousness of Sam's training montage. Like Rocky, Sam finally believes he is worthy of the Shield, and when he catches it as it's about to take his head off, he proves he's also capable of wielding the Shield. Also throw in a full orchestra emotional version of Sam's theme music and it's a very emotional scene. For me at least.

If anything, it's the best scene IMO in Falcon and the Winter Soldier. And for me, it's one of the most powerful single scenes I've seen in an MCU film.

Wrong Gordon Ramsay GIF by Hell's Kitchen - Find & Share on GIPHY

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