MCU's THE ETERNALS (11/6/20) 8 8

[Bosco685]

[theCapraAegagrus]

It seems to me that Eternals is simply a 2+ hours-long credit scene. The credit scenes were always, "next time on the MCU", whereas many people are noting that this movie does more to set up than to conclude its own story.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/1/2021 at 8:29 PM, drotto said:

Even if it is not one on your personal favorites, if you have any integrity, you have to admit it is a highly respected movie.

I mean, I did preface my statement with "Unpopular opinion", didn't I? Would better integrity mean that I should change my opinion of the movie because everyone else is telling me it's the greatest comic book movie of all time? 

On 11/2/2021 at 3:03 AM, Oddball said:

You are trying way too hard with the “take away this scene” or “this character” etc. That illogical game can be played with any movie. You’re really reaching. The movie is an accumulation of all its scenes and characters put together in a manner that works so well that it is considered the best comic book movie ever made. By who? You can google.

Out of respect to Heath Ledger, I said "take out the Joker scenes", but okay, leave them in and I THINK The Dark Knight still ain't that great.

For me, Jack Nicholson's Joker is Joker. As effective as Ledger was, he still portrayed some kind of Elseworld 90's Grunge version of Joker who would pseudo-psycho-analyze everything(in an interesting way I'll give it that, Ledger didn't win the Award for nothing) and talk about how crazy he and the world are. However, when it comes to action, he is quite masterful, meticulous, and deliberate in his planning. Nolan's Joker would have us think that all is chaos inside, but a deeper dive shows me that there actually isn't a lot going on underneath. Another term for it is pretentious. And this view of Joker could be a metaphor for the entire film of The Dark Knight, as far as I'm concerned.

As I see it, Christopher Nolan and his brother do a masterful and meticulous job of making it seem like there's a lot going on in The Dark Knight and that it's all important and deep, when actually there's not a lot going on at all. Joker would be proud. The dramatic cinematography, the very good score by Hans Zimmer, all the serious talk, and Bale's Batman voice make it seem like the Godfather of comic book movies when actually it's just wearing a shroud of seriousness and intellectualism over an empty body. Whether it's a forensic scene of Batman studying bullet holes in a wall or Batman proclaiming he must be the villain because he can take it, there's just not a reason for a lot of it. It's a lot of dramatic show with no real character development or plot. Well, at least Harvey turns into a Two-Face, who nobody cares about, so never mind.

Edited November 2, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[fantastic_four]

On 11/2/2021 at 10:12 AM, fantastic_four said:

Phillips explicitly referenced these panels below from Moore's Killing Joke as an inspiration for the film, so I can't tell how much of what we're seeing is message and how much is selfish delusion.  But given that he's an unreliable narrator I have to default to not trusting anything I'm seeing.  Factoring this in I have to assume Phillips's Joker is the same rando-killing force of nature with no real origin that he's always been.  

As an aside here, my significant other detests superhero films, but she LOVED the Joker film for the reasons you guys outlined--she sees it as a fascinating look into insanity.  But when I showed her Todd Phillips's quote about Killing Joke, Arthur preferring to remember his past as "multiple choice," and the idea that much or perhaps even ALL of what we're seeing in the film is some indeterminate mix of truth, delusion, bad memory, and intentional lying by Arthur, she repeatedly maintains that can't be right--despite seeing quotes from Phillips explicitly saying that was his intent.  She had no real explanation for what Phillips may have meant, she just seems to think that makes the whole thing dumb, as many people now feel after experiencing too many "it was all a dream" stories, so she prefers the film as presented on-screen.

I think she's in the majority there, and that most people don't realize the mix of truth and fiction that the film is.  And that they'd be let down if they knew.  I'm not let down because I read Killing Joke long ago and enjoyed it, so the idea of being wrapped up in a Joker delusion was intellectually fun, although so dreary that I ultimately didn't enjoy it.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/1/2021 at 8:29 PM, drotto said:

If you removed Captian Marvel from her own movie, it would have been better.

Funny ha ha. Not really. Carol Danvers is almost literally the entire movie. The movie starts inside her head and ends with her going off into space. Without Carol Danvers, Captain Marvel is like four minutes of Nick Fury or Talos talking about stuff. I know I know, for you it's still better, but that four minute Talos Nick Fury short film wouldn't have grossed a billion plus dollars.

[Bosco685]

So we see people complaining 'that review is noted as Rotten and it is really Fresh'. How about this one?

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/2/2021 at 11:11 AM, Bosco685 said:

So we see people complaining 'that review is noted as Rotten and it is really Fresh'. How about this one?

Movie Mom gave Eternals a B-. She literally says the movie isn't bad. Her main complaint was too many characters that it got fuzzy for her, and that's why she thought it was a mess. She still gave it a B-.

[Bosco685]

On 11/2/2021 at 11:19 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Movie Mom gave Eternals a B-. She literally says the movie isn't bad. Her main complaint was too many characters that it got fuzzy for her, and that's why she thought it was a mess. She still gave it a B-.

I think you are too emotionally invested in anything MCU to bring a rational analysis to the conversation.

Guess what happens if you felt the movie was a mess and you rate it low. You get blocked. But if you state it is a mess yet rate it Moderate you don't get blocked.

[theCapraAegagrus]

It doesn't matter that she say's, "it's a mess". She's only credible because she gave it a B-.

[Bosco685]

On 11/2/2021 at 11:25 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

It doesn't matter that she say's, "it's a mess". She's only credible because she gave it a B-.

Eternals Movie Mom review

Quote

Strength: the cast is excellent and it is a delight to see this group of first-rate performers, one of the most diverse in any film in any category, doing their best and having fun. Oscar-winner Angelina Jolie is Thena, an Eternal who sometimes has a breakdown and starts attacking the others instead of the divergents. Gilgamesh (Don Lee) has a powerful punch, but he spends centuries caring for Thena and their scenes together are touching. Gemma Chan of “Crazy Rich Asians” plays a sometime leader of the group with grace.

Quote

Strength: the cinematography is beautiful. Some people will disagree, but I thought the delicate gold filigree-like effects indicating the Eternals’ powers are lovely.

Quote

Strength: The diversity of the characters was outstanding. It was organic, never artificial, and added enormously to the storyline.

 

Quote

Weakness: there are too many characters, even for a movie that is more than 2 1/2 hours long (including the TWO credit sequences).

Quote

Weakness: The specifics and distinctions of the various powers are not as clear as they should be, and the same goes for the creatures they are fighting. We need a clearer idea of the stakes to understand the fight scenes.

Quote

Weakness: Speaking of stakes, the parameters of the Eternals’ mission it fuzzy as well. They’re not supposed to interfere with the affairs of humans. Except kind of sometimes.

 

Quote

Conclusion: It’s too long. It doesn’t hold together. Its actors are stronger than their characters. It looks lovely.

So looking lovely over substance and intensity is a B- nowadays.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 11/2/2021 at 11:32 AM, Bosco685 said:

Eternals Movie Mom review

 

 

So looking lovely over substance and intensity is a B- nowadays.

Strength: Style.
Weakness: Substance.

Sound familiar?

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/2/2021 at 11:25 AM, Bosco685 said:

I think you are too emotionally invested in anything MCU to bring a rational analysis to the conversation.

Not really, as far as "too emotionally invested" goes. I call a movie as I see it, whether it's MCU or not. I didn't think Black Widow was that great (and not because of Taskmaster) and I've posted my thoughts about it here even. I thought Black Widow was a missed opportunity to tell a more meaningful story about Natasha though I liked Yelena.

If I didn't like Eternals or if I love it, I'll say as much. 

[Bosco685]

On 11/2/2021 at 11:34 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Not really, as far as "too emotionally invested" goes. I call a movie as I see it, whether it's MCU or not. I didn't think Black Widow was that great (and not because of Taskmaster) and I've posted my thoughts about it here even. I thought Black Widow was a missed opportunity to tell a more meaningful story about Natasha though I liked Yelena.

If I didn't like Eternals or if I love it, I'll say as much. 

You have tried in rare spots lately. But your overpowering need to blindly assume only the MCU has done things right gets in the way. To include decades of superhero Oscar nominations, but only Black Panther and Joker (that would have looked nuts to exclude this film) opened the door.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/2/2021 at 11:39 AM, Bosco685 said:

You have tried in rare spots lately. But your overpowering need to blindly assume only the MCU has done things right gets in the way. To include decades of superhero Oscar nominations, but only Black Panther and Joker (that would have looked nuts to exclude this film) opened the door.

I said BP and J are the only comic book movies to be nominated for BEST PICTURE and that they set a precedent. Oddball said I left out Dark Knight, but that movie wasn't nominated in 2012. If it had an influence on the Academy expanding the number of Best Picture noms, fine. We still wouldn't get a Best Picture nom for a comic book super-hero movie until six years later with Black Panther. You can talk up DK all day, but BP is still the film that broke the Best Picture barrier to comic book movies.

Edited November 2, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[Bosco685]

On 11/2/2021 at 11:46 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

I said BP and J are the only comic book movies to be nominated for BEST PICTURE and that they set a precedent. Oddball said I left out Dark Knight, but that movie wasn't nominated in 2012. If it had an influence on the Academy expanding the number of Best Picture noms, fine. We still wouldn't get a Best Picture nom for a comic book super-hero movie until six years later with Black Panther. You can talk up DK all day, but BP is still the film that broke the Best Picture barrier to comic book movies.

Not to gie you a hard time, but you actually didn't.

On 11/1/2021 at 1:37 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

I'll be more specific, there was actual online chatter and insider tweets that Marvel Studios was astounded with how good they thought Eternals was and that Marvel was releasing the film in November in order to be closer to Awards season. There was the precedent for comic book movies getting nominated set by Black Panther and Joker. Then of course, there's the fact that the director Zhao makes very good movies and is herself an Academy winner.

From this, one should be able to understand why there was a lot of critical expectations for Eternals based on the circumstances and the online chatter. That being said, Marvel Studios itself never released any official statement saying Eternals would be considered for the Oscars or would just be a popcorn flick.

 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/2/2021 at 11:59 AM, Bosco685 said:

Not to gie you a hard time, but you actually didn't.

Super-hero comic book movies have been getting nominated for Oscar awards since 1978 Superman. I hope when I said "There was the precedent for comic book movies getting nominated set by BP and J"  that folks knew I meant Best Picture since the context was John Campea expecting Eternals to be a film worthy of a Best Picture nomination when he went to see it.

 

 

 

[Bosco685]

On 11/2/2021 at 12:10 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Super-hero comic book movies have been getting nominated for Oscar awards since 1978 Superman. I hope when I said "There was the precedent for comic book movies getting nominated set by BP and J"  that folks knew I meant Best Picture since the context was John Campea expecting Eternals to be a film worthy of a Best Picture nomination when he went to see it.

It gets overly confusing with your steady messaging of 'the MCU did it first'. So hopefully you can understand how it would potentially lead to all that discussion you experienced.

[Gatsby77]

On 11/2/2021 at 11:46 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

I said BP and J are the only comic book movies to be nominated for BEST PICTURE and that they set a precedent. Oddball said I left out Dark Knight, but that movie wasn't nominated in 2012. If it had an influence on the Academy expanding the number of Best Picture noms, fine. We still wouldn't get a Best Picture nom for a comic book super-hero movie until six years later with Black Panther. You can talk up DK all day, but BP is still the film that broke the Best Picture barrier to comic book movies.

Again - this is borderline wildly_fanciful_statement.

1) The Dark Knight is almost universally acknowledged as a better film than Black Panther. Because it is. 

2) Without The Dark Knight - which *absolutely* led to the Best Picture expansion to as many as 10 nominees per year - from 5, there's slim (ahem! Zero) chance Black Panther gets nominated. Full stop.

This is like bragging about getting a 1400 on the SAT post the 1994 re-centering, which effectively boosted everyone's score by 100 points. Congratulations - you're a B student, but we'll give you the A just because you tried hard.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/2/2021 at 12:44 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Again - this is borderline wildly_fanciful_statement.

1) The Dark Knight is almost universally acknowledged as a better film than Black Panther. Because it is. 

2) Without The Dark Knight - which *absolutely* led to the Best Picture expansion to as many as 10 nominees per year - from 5, there's slim (ahem! Zero) chance Black Panther gets nominated. Full stop.

This is like bragging about getting a 1400 on the SAT post the 1994 re-centering, which effectively boosted everyone's score by 100 points. Congratulations - you're a B student, but we'll give you the A just because you tried hard.

Black Panther's themes transcended its surface level genre of super-hero action film and touched on themes of imperialism and colonialism, racism, the responsibility of leadership and the legacy we leave to our world. T'Challa's journey actually involved character development as he learned to be a better leader. 

While Dark Knight is full of metaphors on chaos, those metaphors still only apply to the characters within the movie. Dark Knight's themes don't really transcend its genre to more universal ones that involve real life or history. Bruce Wayne's character fails to go through any real character development. His character is essentially flat. In this way, Batman Begins is a better film.

[jcjames]

https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/eternals-movie-review-2021 

Edited November 2, 2021 by jcjames