kimik Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 I did not mind Dark World. I went into it late in the run with lowered expectations and thought it was your typical MCU movie. chrisco37 and theCapraAegagrus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
▫️ Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) On 11/2/2021 at 3:02 AM, @therealsilvermane said: Take away the cool parking garage opening scene and Joker’s scenes, and The Dark Knight is Batman doing some redundant CSI detective work that goes nowhere, a bunch of chatter about politics and corporate takeovers, a 40 minute goose chase charade game to which the end result would have been the same if Batman had just gone back up to the penthouse party, a lot of Bruce Wayne simping over a girl who isn’t worth the heartache until she (spoiler alert) dies, and an unsympathetic Two-Face. You are trying way too hard with the “take away this scene” or “this character” etc. That illogical game can be played with any movie. You’re really reaching. The movie is an accumulation of all its scenes and characters put together in a manner that works so well that it is considered the best comic book movie ever made. By who? You can google. Edited November 2, 2021 by Oddball theCapraAegagrus, Larryw7 and Bosco685 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
▫️ Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 11/2/2021 at 3:29 AM, drotto said: Even if it is not one on your personal favorites, if you have any integrity, you have to admit it is a highly respected movie. His blind devotion trumps integrity. As shown when he contradicts his own statements that Bosco caught. It’s easy to stay consistent when you’re telling the truth. Larryw7, theCapraAegagrus and Bosco685 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 11/2/2021 at 3:11 AM, Oddball said: His blind devotion trumps integrity. As shown when he contradicts his own statements that Bosco caught. It’s easy to stay consistent when you’re telling the truth. I think I know what game he is playing. Robert Downey Jr On "The Dark Knight": "F*×# DC Comics" The year Iron Man and The Dark Knight came out Robert Downey was interviewed by The Huffington Post and delivered the ugly line about DC Comics. So you are seeing someone fanatically towing the line of "Yeah - f*×# The Dark Knight and DC!" It's pretty toxic and cult-like. But to be expected. Who would sit there thinking "Without the actor, suit, Batmobile, villain and everything else what do you have...?" I guess a hanging lightbulb in an empty room because you removed everything meaningful. ▫️ and bentbryan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
▫️ Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 11/2/2021 at 10:41 AM, Bosco685 said: I think I know what game he is playing. Robert Downey Jr On "The Dark Knight": "F*×# DC Comics" The year Iron Man and The Dark Knight came out Robert Downey was interviewed by The Huffington Post and delivered the ugly line about DC Comics. So you are seeing someone fanatically towing the line of "Yeah - f*×# The Dark Knight and DC!" It's pretty toxic and cult-like. But to be expected. Who would sit there thinking "Without the actor, suit, Batmobile, villain and everything else what do you have...?" I guess a hanging lightbulb in an empty room because you removed everything meaningful. I remember when Brett stole my girlfriend in high school. If he didn’t have that charm and the looks and that car well… Unfortunately that interview with Downey didn’t age well. Not only did he come off as being dense but he ended up working for DC this year. He didn’t understand the ending? My kids didn’t have a problem following along. He must have recanted those words though since he’s producing for DC Entertainment now. The funny thing is at the end of each episode of Sweet Tooth is the Team Downey logo followed by DC. All the words are just smoke and its really just a paycheck which is why blind devotion in that industry makes no sense. I’m not a Marvel or DC fanatic. I love watching movies in general. One reason The Dark Knight stands out for me is that its not just a great comic book movie, its simply a great movie. Larryw7 and Bosco685 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 11/1/2021 at 3:05 PM, fantastic_four said: Joker--no comment because I don't see how it had anything to say about the human condition any more than Alan Moore would ever think Killing Joke ever did. The Joker is the embodiment of a self-absorbed, random killer--which Christopher Nolan intuited and depicted his Joker to be, as all popular incarnations of the character had been before and how I saw the character in that film--and I don't see how elevating that helps anyone. But I've only seen it once so I could be wrong, and I welcome a case for how much it says about the human condition. I lean towards the opposite idea that it has more destructive than constructive influence. Joker attempts to say that psychopathy is a condition exacerbated by a lack of human empathy, systematic failure, and ignorance. The Academy completely ignored the romanticism of delusions and extremism, though, which contradict the story's own message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 11/1/2021 at 11:32 PM, kimik said: I did not mind Dark World. I went into it late in the run with lowered expectations and thought it was your typical MCU movie. I really despise that it relied on science-fiction mumbo-jumbo to defeat Malekith in the 3rd act, though. It doesn't ruin the movie for me, but it's what always sticks in my head when discussing 'why it is bad'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 11/2/2021 at 7:08 AM, theCapraAegagrus said: Joker attempts to say that psychopathy is a condition exacerbated by a lack of human empathy, systematic failure, and ignorance. The Academy completely ignored the romanticism of delusions and extremism, though, which contradict the story's own message. Joker so accurately portrayed the mental breakdown of an 'every man' a leading neurocriminologist uses it as education material in his training. Leading Neurocriminologist Considers Joker “a Great Educational Tool” Quote But what Raine saw onscreen stunned him. According to the neurocriminologist, the -script—from Phillips and Scott Silver—authentically traces the way a man could be driven to deeply troubling acts of violence by a combination of genetics, childhood trauma, untreated mental illness, and societal provocation. And though Raine was not sure how to pronounce Joaquin Phoenix’s name, the neurocriminologist was staggered by the nuance and grim grace the Oscar-nominated actor brought to the role—summoning the odd behavior, appearance, and social tics exhibited by those who suffer from certain personality disorders. Predicted the neurocriminologist, “He’s sure to be in the Oscar race.” “[The film] was a surprisingly accurate prediction of the kind of background and circumstances which, when combined together, make a murderer,” said Raine, who was already considering integrating Joker into a forthcoming course at the University of Pennsylvania. “For 42 years, I’ve studied the cause of crime and violence. And while watching this film, I thought, Wow, what a revelation this was. I need to buy this movie down the road, make excerpt clips of it to illustrate […] It is a great educational tool about the making of the murderer. That threw me,” confessed Raine, still surprised by how much he appreciated the film. “I talk about all of these factors in the class, and honestly, it’s really hard to get a true-life story that fits all of these pieces together, let alone a very dramatic and stylized movie that illustrates these factors quite strongly. That was really a revelation.” But experts on a comic book forum stated... Larryw7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 11/2/2021 at 7:17 AM, Bosco685 said: Joker so accurately portrayed the mental breakdown of an 'every man' a leading neurocriminologist uses it as education material in his training. Leading Neurocriminologist Considers Joker “a Great Educational Tool” But experts on a comic book forum stated... Arthur isn't an 'every man', though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 11/2/2021 at 7:20 AM, theCapraAegagrus said: Arthur isn't an 'every man', though. He is. Just like the neurocriminologist notes the cards were already stacked against him due to child abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 11/2/2021 at 7:22 AM, Bosco685 said: He is. Just like the neurocriminologist notes the cards were already stacked against him due to child abuse. He isn't, though. His problems are compounded far beyond 'just one bad day'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 11/2/2021 at 7:29 AM, theCapraAegagrus said: He isn't, though. His problems are compounded far beyond 'just one bad day'. His reaction... Quote “For 42 years, I’ve studied the cause of crime and violence. And while watching this film, I thought, Wow, what a revelation this was. I need to buy this movie down the road, make excerpt clips of it to illustrate […] It is a great educational tool about the making of the murderer. That threw me” I think his 42 years of studying the topic gives him a leg up on the topic. Where Arthur could have worked to control (not overcome completely) working with the right medical help his then impactful experiences with treatment taken away and then life's abused tipped him over the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 11/2/2021 at 7:33 AM, Bosco685 said: I think his 42 years of studying the topic gives him a leg up on the topic. Not really. A mathematician of 40 years can tell me that, "2 + 2 = 5", but I still know that it's wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 11/2/2021 at 7:44 AM, theCapraAegagrus said: Not really. A mathematician of 40 years can tell me that, "2 + 2 = 5", but I still know that it's wrong. Uh-huh. Meanwhile, he's an expert on the topic of crime and violence and its motivations. He isn't speaking from "Stan Lee said in How To Draw Comics The Marvel Way..." I'd like to think those 42 years bring major credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 11/2/2021 at 8:01 AM, Bosco685 said: Uh-huh. Meanwhile, he's an expert on the topic of crime and violence and its motivations. He isn't speaking from "Stan Lee said in How To Draw Comics The Marvel Way..." I'd like to think those 42 years bring major credibility. A gang of drunks assaulted a mentally challenged individual with a revolver, and he shot them? Wow, his experience in the field must have really helped him dissect the cause of that crime and violence. Larryw7 and Bosco685 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 11/2/2021 at 8:05 AM, theCapraAegagrus said: A gang of drunks assaulted a mentally challenged individual with a revolver, and he shot them? Wow, his experience in the field must have really helped him dissect the cause of that crime and violence. It kills you an expert in the field topped your ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theCapraAegagrus Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 11/2/2021 at 8:08 AM, Bosco685 said: It kills you an expert in the field topped your ... If this is a good example of "expert" analysis, I need to apply for that job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosco685 Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 On 11/2/2021 at 8:14 AM, theCapraAegagrus said: If this is a good example of "expert" analysis, I need to apply for that job. That's definitely the 'expertise' for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 (edited) Maybe Joker is a worthy analysis of what leads a human to deviance. Or is it, given that Phillips intentionally built in enough contradictions to make it clear that the film is told from Arthur's perspective and he's shown to be lying repeatedly in what he shows us? If I slog through a re-watch of this fascinating but dreary film, how do I know what to trust and what not to--anyone have a guide? Phillips explicitly referenced these panels below from Moore's Killing Joke as an inspiration for the film, so I can't tell how much of what we're seeing is message and how much is selfish delusion. But given that he's an unreliable narrator I have to default to not trusting anything I'm seeing. Factoring this in I have to assume Phillips's Joker is the same rando-killing force of nature with no real origin that he's always been. Edited November 2, 2021 by fantastic_four theCapraAegagrus and Larryw7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fantastic_four Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Oh, and I realize this is a tangent so I won't go to deep on whether or not Joker is Oscar-worthy. But Chloe Zhao's involvement and the question of whether Eternals could ever be Oscar-worthy makes it directly related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
