Dangers of the CGC Case

[joe_collector]

Man, nice book, but too bad it shifted and got dented on the top corner. Would it be a 9.4 upon re-sub?

 

[delekkerste]

Would it be a 9.4 upon re-sub?

 

Just let RJ work his magic on it first...

 

Gene

[joe_collector]

That's a given, and with RJ's magic, I'd expect no less than a 9.8 with this book. Even with the dent, this book is head and shoulder's above that ug-lee X-Men 139 CGC 9.4 I posted on here.

[ArAich]

Would it be a 9.4 upon re-sub?

 

Ouch!!!

 

You know...that's actually a good question and brings to mind a querie of mine....If the book is sent back to CGC for re-sub or re-holder and the case has clearly not been damaged....are they(CGC) required to give the book at least the original grade that it had recieved?

[joe_collector]

That is an excellent question!

 

I also remember wondering about that, after a big flood a large dealer sent in CGC books for re-sub, and the books had been submerged in water for some time (yikes!!).

 

Although it was used as PR for the protective abilities of CGC comics, that scared the heck out of me, especially as it was stated many were water damaged as a result.

 

Things that make you go hmmmm.......

[fantastic_four]

Bonds said in another thread that he sent a book back in only to get it reholdered and CGC downgraded it because they said it had been "damaged in transmission." So the grade isn't guaranteed to remain constant inside the case.

[tb]

Is this the Greg Manning flooding in 2001 you are referring to? I always wondered what came out of that? Can just imagine the sight of those dozens(?) of waterlogged GA 9.4 pedigrees..

[fantastic_four]

Did Manning resubmit those books? I don't remember them mentioning that in the CBG article I read about the flood; all I remember is a Manning representative saying that some, but not all, of the slabbed books were submerged but had no water damage to the comics inside.

[MikeS]

That's sad - I know the seller of that comic, and she just had it graded and picked it up from the post office on Thursday. Guess it must have been damaged when it was shipped to her.

[joe_collector]

Yeah, the seller is a peach, that's why I didn't link to the auction. Not her fault.

[joe_collector]

>>Did Manning resubmit those books?

 

Yep, though I have no idea on the numbers submitted, or what sort of grades they received.

[clarkkentdds]

Does anyone know the details of the Greg Manning flood??? Why did they go out of business anyways?

[hammer-migration]

Manning (whose GMAI was a PUBLICALLY owned company), ran into a few small roadblocks. He DIDN'T go out of business. He's been absorbed into the JP/Heritage/CGC Hydra (many heads, same body). More power to em'. Without them, the hobby would still be in the dark ages.

[Mister_Comics]

If the holder was completely sealed so water couldn't get in that would make for a better protected comic. While improving the holder they should go with a UV protective plastic to help prevnt fading. And put a darker shade of micro paper (whatever its called) so that white covers don't show the printing through. And finely; Have the comic secured so it doesn't move within the holder.

 

All these changes would only benefit both CGC and the costomers.

 

I'm sure prices would go up though.

 

But I see more positives if they did do these changes.

Less book damage.

Less chance of hidden openned slabs being sold. It would be harder to open a slab. Good for the customer. Bad for CGC reslabbing (more work).

Less chance of buying a slabbed damaged book from someone.

Possibably wouldn't have to resubmit a book after 7 years cause of better holders.

Improved holders may bring more costumers to GCC.

 

[Bugaboo-migration]

I thought the plastic used in the holders was at least slightly UV resistant......but I could be mistaken. Also, people have mentioned before that if the case was completely sealed, then the harmful gasses? given off by the book itself could build up within the holder and contribute to the deterioration of the book. Again.....not sure if that's true.

 

I agree with the darker shade of micro paper and the need to secure the comic better in the holder to keep it from moving around. Occasionally, I'll see a book that is slabbed without an "inner" well. It appears that within the hard "outer" plastic shell......that the books are just sandwiched in between two sheets of flat plastic sheeting. Not sure whey they are occasionally done like this, but it does appear to keep the books from sliding around and getting damaged within the holder. Has anyone else seen these "variant" slabs?

[fantastic_four]

I thought the plastic used in the holders was at least slightly UV resistant

ALL plastic is mostly UV-resistant, but plastic can be further treated to block even more wavelengths of UV light.

 

Also, people have mentioned before that if the case was completely sealed, then the harmful gasses? given off by the book itself could build up within the holder and contribute to the deterioration of the book. Again.....not sure if that's true.

I'd like to know the answer to that one myself...

[Darthdiesel]

then the harmful gasses? given off by the book itself could build up within the holder

 

I never thought that the CGC wells that the books were sealed in were airtight, or created a vacuum like state? The plastic itself may be made of a semipermeable polymer allowing gases to escape while keeping humidity (for the most part) out?

[Arty]

 

In reply to:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Also, people have mentioned before that if the case was completely sealed, then the harmful gasses? given off by the book itself could build up within the holder and contribute to the deterioration of the book. Again.....not sure if that's true.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I'd like to know the answer to that one myself...

 

I hope this helps:

 

"Based on the approach, that the inpouch environment has to be

equal to the outdoor environment during ageing studies, in our

case 24 days at 70 deg. C and 55% RH, the conclusion can be

drawn that encapsulation of paper using laminated uncoated

polyester pouch and a slight vacuum, will neither influence the

mechanical paper properties in a positive or negative way in

time. However, paper deterioration will continue and paper

acidification will even be enhanced by the paper encapsulation.

It is suggested therefore that only for deacidified papers this

accelerated acidification will not occur. Based on the

artificial ageing experiments, care has to be taken for storing

acid papers encapsulated."

 

Extract From

Ageing Behaviour Of Encapsulated Paper

By John B G A Havermans

Restaurator

 

Rest of the article can be found here.

 

My opinion is that encapsulation (vacuum or airtight) should only be done with microchamber paper to prevent acidification.

[fantastic_four]

I never thought that the CGC wells that the books were sealed in were airtight, or created a vacuum like state?

Back when Manning had the flood, Borock said that they didn't design the case to be airtight. But since some of Manning's submerged books didn't get wet, some of them do turn out to be at least watertight, if not airtight.

[fantastic_four]

So the microchamber paper CGC places in the slab should help then, I guess? That's the same thing Bill Cole sells those "Time X-Tenders" for, I believe.

 

Since Gemma said in the "Ask CGC" forum that the microchamber paper should be changed after 7 years, the almost-airtight nature of the slab forces us to do just that, or risk accelerated decay to the book. Yikes.