newshane Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 1 hour ago, ThothAmon said: It seems to me you already know the answer. This IS true. If you have to ask in the first place if a decision was ethical, there is a heavy chance that it wasn't. The Lions Den and Raze 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newshane Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 It sounds like contacting the guy would be good closure for you. Call him up. Raze, BuscemasAvengers, The Lions Den and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Lions Den Posted April 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) And now, the longer response... I really appreciate the fact that you have a conscience...that's very admirable. You're a rare individual, and you should be proud of yourself for the way you handled this. But one of the responsibilities of a seller is to inspect the products you're selling, whether they're books, records, CDs, etc. Not only do I inspect every item when I buy it, I also inspect it again before I sell it. In this way, I can be 100% sure of the product I'm selling and price it accordingly. If the seller in question didn't do this, that's on him. It's certainly not your fault. And you did, in fact, bring it to his attention. If he's too disinterested to do a little quick research (like you did) then he should probably focus on improving the way he sells things. Whatever the reason, you shouldn't feel guilty because of someone else's negligence. With that said, I'd probably still let him know the book is complete and see what happens... Edited April 7, 2019 by The Lions Den oakman29, newshane, Black_Adam and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldrover Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 19 minutes ago, Sal said: are you keeping the book? if you sell it, you could consider passing some of the windfall back to the guy, either in additional sales, or as a "make-good." you can always contact the guy and tell him that you discovered that the book was in fact complete and that you feel that you want to make it up to him. see what kind of response you get. i would think that a dealer with whom i would want to do more business with would say to just forget about it and enjoy the book. i know that's what i would tell you if i had sold it to you but i'm not a dealer and plus ymmv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grebal Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 A problem with living life according to the 'do unto others …' rule is that we share a planet with many a-holes. Still, if you're a Golden Rule kind of guy, the morality of others doesn't really come into play. To be clear, I'm not saying that everyone who would just buy the comic and remain silent is an a-hole. Many just and ethical people live their lives according to a more Caveat Emptor philosophy (it's the buyer's job to find defects, and similarly the seller's responsibility if they didn't know a movie announcement tripled the price of that comic). You be you bud. Raze, thehumantorch and The Lions Den 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuscemasAvengers Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 16 minutes ago, newshane said: It sounds like contacting the guy would be good closure for you. Call him up. I second this ... it doesn't seem your 'intent' () was to buy a GA book for cheaper than what it may have been worth. If it was, then there are other factors involved. A big component of ethics (but certainly not the only one) is intent. I believe the seller would probably be okay with having the book turn out to be a complete copy, and simply accept the fact that he needs to be a little more attentive to these types of things when selling. I hope your conversation with the seller is one in which both buyer and seller are satisfied with their choices. I think many of us could share similar stories of buying collections in which a few hidden gems are there unknown to the seller ... What I believe to be important is the discerning you seem to think is necessary. What will help that is the conversation ... if you follow through with that option, please let us know how it turned out, as we all could learn lessons from this ... Raze and The Lions Den 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GM8 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 It's not your job to do the dealer's due diligence. But if your conscience bothers you, like someone said, if he believed it was missing then he likely bought it for a discounted price anyways. He had a chance to research it himself and that's his business. I sold a book Turtles book on ebay that I believed wasn't an error edition (not Tales of TMNT #1/#4 2nd print). The buyer came back to me later and said "Thanks! that WAS the error edition!" No effort to give me extra $, nor did I even ask. I had the chance to research it, did, and was wrong. My mistake and I chalk it up to next time paying more attention. CycleGirl, The Lions Den and Raze 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz G. Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) Should Rozanski have told Church he was sitting on over $1M worth of books? Edited April 7, 2019 by Chazgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RockMyAmadeus Posted April 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Raze said: I was at a show a while back and came across a book that caught my eye. I asked the dealer if i could see the book. it was a golden age book and on the back was a note "missing centerfold". 9 times out of 10 i walk away, but this time i asked if the missing centerfold interrupted the story and he opened the book and he looked through it and said "it does look like it is missing the centerfold". so he handed me the book and the first thing i did was count the pages, and to my surprise it had 36 pages. so i put the book down and was talking with him and checking mycomicshop.com for a page count and they said it had 36 pages. IVE never seen mycomicshop.com to be wrong on page count so i bought the book WITHOUT telling the dealer that i was 90% sure this was complete. when i got home i used digitalcomicmuseum.com and went page for page and it is complete. so my question is was this unethical of me NOT to tell the dealer? I've told dealers before that their book was missing pages, cutouts that they missed, and ive also told dealers that their book WAS complete when they had it marked "missing centerfold or pages". this has been eating away at me for awhile and ive asked a few friends and dealers and ive got their opinion (mostly one sided) but id like to get a sense of what this community has to say. was i wrong? should i find the dealer and make it right? or let it go as a great find? It's not your responsibility to educate or correct dealers. You paid the price the dealer was asking, or that you had negotiated, and that's where your obligation ends. That said, I have to ask...are you counting the pages correctly? When you say pages, do you mean individual pages, or, more commonly, leaves? The two are often confused, and if you say the book has 36 pages, I would consider it a "standard comic book" of the type the publishing industry basically settled on by 1950-1952 - 32 pages (front of the leaf and back of the leaf being 2 "pages"), 16 leaves, 8 leaves before the staple, 8 leaves after, with the front and back covers accounting for the 4 additional pages, to arrive at 36. Or, are you counting the leaves as "pages", and the actual page count would be 72, 18 leaves before the staple, 18 leaves after? Just wondering. That all said, if it's bothering you, write or call the dealer, tell them you discovered, after taking it home, that the comic was, in fact, complete (which is true, as you relate it here) and that you would like to discuss it further. Put it in their court. comicquant, Vfactor1, The Lions Den and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadroch Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 12 minutes ago, Chazgee said: Should Rozanski have told Church he was sitting on over $1M worth of books? He wasn't, and Chuck was operating under the impression Church was dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, Chazgee said: Should Rozanski have told Church he was sitting on over $1M worth of books? The comics world was a vastly different place in 1977. I don't think Chuck met Church until after the deal was done. Church was no longer living at the house at the time. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadroch Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 I may have told a private collector, but when you set up a booth, it's your responsibility to know your stuff. No customer has an obligation to correct a dealers mistakes. Especially after he is asked about it, and double checks the book. The Lions Den, Raze and silverseeker 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Hood Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 The only thing left to do is go back to the dealer and gloat about his mistake and your good fortune. Right to his face about 2-3 feet away. Don't invade his personal space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuscemasAvengers Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 33 minutes ago, grebal said: Many just and ethical people live their lives according to a more Caveat Emptor philosophy (it's the buyer's job to find defects, and similarly the seller's responsibility if they didn't know a movie announcement tripled the price of that comic). No doubt ... 'Caveat Emptor' must be intimately linked with 'Caveat Venditor' ... grebal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R. Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 Raze, you won't be at peace with this by polling board members to see what they would do. This 'deal' obviously bothers you, and it will continue to bother you regardless of what anyone says. This book is soiled and needs a good cleaning. RockMyAmadeus, Raze, ADAMANTIUM and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) @Raze Maybe this will make you feel better or give you perspective: I went by a LCS, and there was a Journey into Mystery #89(classic cover) that was raw. I asked to look at it, I usually trust this owner, but asked anyway if he'd look through it in front of me to make sure that it was complete, it was priced at like $130 or $140... He flipped through the pages, (this will be hard to picture but try) there was a tear and one piece sticking up between pages... so I asked if that page was missing? the LCS thought it was at quick glance, I guess embarrassed he said, "This is a $15 book and do you want it?" I did, but said that I would continue looking around and come back for it, unless I found something better. While I'm looking and this is the important part for you, the owner exclaimed from across the store, "You should have bought it for $15!" I came back, what had happened was that since the tear was at the bottom of "a page", it had got wrapped or unwrapped around the spine and was appearing in a "different page making it 'appear' that it was missing", and he showed me that he carefully took the torn piece still attached and moved it around the spine to the corresponding page that it belonged to! It is complete to my knowledge and I'll have it graded this next comic con. Did the owner "want" me to take "advantage of him?" NO but he was willing to let it go at first for $15 at a $120 discount, so much so he laughed and said non-sarcastically that I "should have taken it!"...... what he meant to say was, I "could' have taken it and he wouldn't have sweated it at all.... I told him that I was glad it seemed complete and that I wouldn't want to have stiffed him, he said, "oh, i know but i'll go ahead and charge you only $115 instead of the $130-$140 it was priced at!" so I still ended up getting it for cheaper..... You asked the seller to check, if he didn't "get it", than he has no regrets to your knowledge..... maybe there are other things to gleam from my story Edited April 7, 2019 by ADAMANTIUM The Lions Den and Raze 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 56 minutes ago, Cliff R. said: Raze, you won't be at peace with this by polling board members to see what they would do. This 'deal' obviously bothers you, and it will continue to bother you regardless of what anyone says. This book is soiled and needs a good cleaning. But this is a good post, if you have doubts and the motivation, tell the seller! If you feel the need to "make it right", then try! Do the best you can! If your asking if your obligated that might be a grey area, when I find deals at a used bookstore, i dont feel the "Need" to offer them more...$$ You asked the dealer to double check, but if you feel there is more that you can do, maybe conciouslly or spiritually there is a reason. Sometimes people are caused to do certain things, and hopefully for the better, wouldn't want to get in the way of that! The Lions Den, Raze and Cliff R. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post thehumantorch Posted April 7, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted April 7, 2019 All I can add as a dealer is that if that was my book I’d honor the price on the sticker and chalk it up to my mistake. Its not not your job to argue with the dealer and convince him that it was complete. You brought it to his attention and he still disagreed with you , it’s not worth arguing with him so that you can pay more ADAMANTIUM, Beige, Raze and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fifties Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 5 hours ago, Raze said: this has been eating away at me for awhile I dunno why you feel that you have to ask anyone else. Call the dealer up, and first ask if he got the book at a discount because of the missing CF. If so, that should allay your guilt feelings. If not, tell him you've done some extensive research and determined that the book is in fact complete, and would he want additional money for it. One way or the other, you'll sleep better at night afterward. The Lions Den, Raze and Cliff R. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01TheDude Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) before you do anything--- double check that the book is in fact complete. Some of these other posts have me wondering if you might have somehow made an error counting or in your research. Edited April 7, 2019 by 01TheDude Raze 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...