Popular Post dem1138 Posted May 30, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted May 30, 2019 (edited) I think perspective is always important in looking back like this. I collected heavily in the 80s and it was a disrespected and niche hobby then, so I can't imagine the stigma it had in the 70s. if people were making money, it was among a minute subset of the population. And even in the 80s there was still a very distinct unknown if this hobby would ever amount to anything and if you were spending this kind of money it was with throwing caution to the wind that you would even get your money back, especially with dealers paying 50% of guide at best. Throughout the 80s, and this was seeing Sparkle City at a few shows per year, I only ever saw one Action #1 offered in the Philly con circuit and it was a beat up copy. The seller was a known local dealer and he wanted 10K but I'm sure it was negotiable. The prospect of anyone I knew spending 10K at that time, even on that book, was akin to lighting the money on fire. So while its oh so fun to look back at how obvious all of these purchases were, I wish there was some honest perspective on where the hobby was at the time as well. There's a reason this hobby attracted so many cowboys - because you had to be on the fringe of society or have a screw loose to commit to this hobby as a career back then. We elevate the Chucks for their prowess/success regardless of how it came about and forget the 1000s of dealers and shop owners that fell by the wayside or were chewed up and spit out or lost their shirt. Edited May 30, 2019 by dem1138 Knightsofold, Primetime, Azkaban and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nearmint Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 11 hours ago, lou_fine said: Of course, looking back retroactively based upon today's marketplace, it would appear the Nick and Mike made out like bandits in this deal. If you go back to 1973, however, it's quite possible that the wise old Doc might have been the one dancing like a crazy banana , especially if there were any mid-run or later issues of the 3 Timely titles which were probably valued in only single digit dollars at the time in the Overprice Guide. Actually, relatively much more expensive if you compare that Reilly sale to the $2,000 that the old lady managed to squeeze out of Chuck for the 20,000 (or thereabouts) Church books. She probably thought she had fleeced that young whippersnapper of a hippie dude to pay full brand spanking new prices for what were just some old used comic books. I am just sorry that I was not around at the time for the Doc and the old Church lady to take advantage of me like that. I believe Chuck was contacted by Edgar's son-in-law, Jerry Richardson. He probably didn't deal with "old Church lady". Her name was Helen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 21 hours ago, Crowzilla said: 23 hours ago, lou_fine said: With respect to the Cap's, it looks like Cap 1 was guiding for a whopping $350 at top of guide with the Cap 2 being the only other 3-figure dollar book coming in at $150. This would help explain why Mitch couldn't buy one for $400. Also due to the fact that back in those pre-internet days and non-connected world, it was really more about having the right connections in order to even have any hope of having access to the key books. Nowadays, not so much with public auctions on an almost monthly basis where the only thing required is deep pockets and a willingness to dip into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 3 hours ago, nearmint said: I believe Chuck was contacted by Edgar's son-in-law, Jerry Richardson. He probably didn't deal with "old Church lady". Her name was Helen. Well, if I was Helen or any of the other Church family members, I would certainly not be very happy with Jerry at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 (edited) For reference, there is an in depth letter titled "Setting the record straight" (Marketplace Mail) by Bob Beerbohm in the 42nd issue of CBM (December 1996) which details the Reilly collection from his perspective. Edited May 31, 2019 by Primetime GreatCaesarsGhost 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmehdy Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 15 minutes ago, Primetime said: For reference, there is an in depth letter titled "Setting the record straight" (Marketplace Mail) by Bob Beerbohm in the 42nd issue of CBM (December 1996) which details the Reilly collection from his perspective. Link...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mmehdy said: Link...? It's old school, hard copy in my hands . You probably can find it online somewhere.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmehdy Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Primetime said: It's old school, hard copy in my hands . You probably can find it online somewhere.... anything that mentions the Cap 1 at issue in the article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primetime Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mmehdy said: anything that mentions the Cap 1 at issue in the article? No, because by the time Bob saw the books, Nick and Mike had already cherry picked all the Timelys in that first batch on the pallet. The rolled up/rubber banded Cap 1 would not have made it to Bob based on what I have heard and read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmehdy Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Bob was the main buyer at comics and comics...I believe Bud Plant might have some info also, John Barrett sadly passed away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woowoo Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mmehdy said: Bob was the main buyer at comics and comics...I believe Bud Plant might have some info also, John Barrett sadly passed away. John Barrett was a great friend of mine since I was 16. John held all the Fantasy 15 the store got for my 45 min drive every week. I Dealt with Bob a lot but he would rip me off bad for a book I wanted John was so nice sorry he past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman_fan Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 I am seriously considering selling my collection of ungraded Devil Dinosaur comics so I can seriously chase this book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBedrock Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, Mmehdy said: Bob was the main buyer at comics and comics...I believe Bud Plant might have some info also, John Barrett sadly passed away. Listening to Bud Plant tell stories about Bob Beerbohm easily makes the list of top ten most entertaining things I have ever experienced. Edited May 31, 2019 by MrBedrock sacentaur, Cobbledclam and Readcomix 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eschnit Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 On 5/24/2019 at 3:15 PM, G.A.tor said: Does make you wonder. I had a book pressed 8.0 to 8.5. After a while , seeing it in 8.5 holder It was suggested it needed to be pressed, so hopeful for a 9.0 I agreed. Came back 8.5 again. A year later suggested I press it. Sure, why not. Got a 8.5 again. So sometimes books look like a press will fix but it doesn’t. And then maybe it might. Don’t know. Some of you folks are the pedigree of the hobby, most experienced, most knowledgeable we've got. So my opinion doesn't carry weight and shouldn't. But let me offer up what might be food for thought. I had 9 file copies of a book signed and handed to CGC on-site at a con by a great client of theirs. They weren't pre-screened, but they were pre-screened...and all 9 came back 9.8. I don't believe they were all 9.8s. It's a black cover. There weren't any 9.9s or 9.6s in there?...fascinating. CGC seems to be a solid company, but certainly folks there can be swayed. They're human. If anyone held sway, Verzyl would I would think. You also have the grading process, which entails multiple graders, but a final verdict of one grader. A resub isn't assessed by the same grader the 2nd or 3rd time as the first. They are not machines. A grade is subjective. Sure, experience helps. Skill in grading helps. But if a book is deemed an 8.5, seems to me it falls between an 8.251 and 8.749. If pre-press a robot calculated the grade an 8.72, and after press an 8.77, the grade would kick up from 8.5 to 9.0, it would have to. I have another book that is valuable, was a 9.0 slab, signed, re-slabbed. The signing process didn't damage the book in any way per the previous owner whom I trust, yet somehow the grade dropped to 8.5. Point is, there's lots of factors. Generally I think they do the best they can, but a lot of factors come into play, especially when money is involved, but the human eye is one of them too. Sure CGC makes fees, but the graders also have jobs, the company has a reputation and could be effected positively or negatively by what grade a book is given. It's a big deal when a highly visible, valuable book, where the grade has ramifications has an outcome like what's described above where pressing and resubbing kicks up the grade multiple times. Just knowing it happened has a huge butterfly effect. Why it happened is conjecture. It's possible that top collector/dealer knows top presser, top presser does masterful work...more than once, and improves the quality of a book multiple times. We just don't know. I do wonder how often top top collector/dealer with sway has a book that regraded comes back lower. I'm guessing rarely. A Pepsi-Coke challenge I'd like to see, is two graders CGC considers the tops side by side at a con, grade 100 books. How many do they grade identical to each other? One thing is for sure, the number wouldn't be 100. That mostly is what it is. I don't know how you quality control that to the degree that it changes. They're human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.tor Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, eschnit said: Some of you folks are the pedigree of the hobby, most experienced, most knowledgeable we've got. So my opinion doesn't carry weight and shouldn't. But let me offer up what might be food for thought. I had 9 file copies of a book signed and handed to CGC on-site at a con by a great client of theirs. They weren't pre-screened, but they were pre-screened...and all 9 came back 9.8. I don't believe they were all 9.8s. It's a black cover. There weren't any 9.9s or 9.6s in there?...fascinating. CGC seems to be a solid company, but certainly folks there can be swayed. They're human. If anyone held sway, Verzyl would I would think. You also have the grading process, which entails multiple graders, but a final verdict of one grader. A resub isn't assessed by the same grader the 2nd or 3rd time as the first. They are not machines. A grade is subjective. Sure, experience helps. Skill in grading helps. But if a book is deemed an 8.5, seems to me it falls between an 8.251 and 8.749. If pre-press a robot calculated the grade an 8.72, and after press an 8.77, the grade would kick up from 8.5 to 9.0, it would have to. I have another book that is valuable, was a 9.0 slab, signed, re-slabbed. The signing process didn't damage the book in any way per the previous owner whom I trust, yet somehow the grade dropped to 8.5. Point is, there's lots of factors. Generally I think they do the best they can, but a lot of factors come into play, especially when money is involved, but the human eye is one of them too. Sure CGC makes fees, but the graders also have jobs, the company has a reputation and could be effected positively or negatively by what grade a book is given. It's a big deal when a highly visible, valuable book, where the grade has ramifications has an outcome like what's described above where pressing and resubbing kicks up the grade multiple times. Just knowing it happened has a huge butterfly effect. Why it happened is conjecture. It's possible that top collector/dealer knows top presser, top presser does masterful work...more than once, and improves the quality of a book multiple times. We just don't know. I do wonder how often top top collector/dealer with sway has a book that regraded comes back lower. I'm guessing rarely. A Pepsi-Coke challenge I'd like to see, is two graders CGC considers the tops side by side at a con, grade 100 books. How many do they grade identical to each other? One thing is for sure, the number wouldn't be 100. That mostly is what it is. I don't know how you quality control that to the degree that it changes. They're human. Actually I understand finalizing now to be consensus and not a single finalizer? But I could be wrong of course eschnit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eschnit Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 12 minutes ago, G.A.tor said: Actually I understand finalizing now to be consensus and not a single finalizer? But I could be wrong of course That's interesting. I doubt you're wrong :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mmehdy Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 I wonder if Mike is still alive...anybody know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pickycollector Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 On 5/24/2019 at 9:56 PM, tth2 said: I really really really love this hobby! The sad thing in all of these is that the best known copies are no longer in their original state but restored i.e. pressed just to get a grade bump. It is no longer an hobby. It is pure manipulation of books to get the highest money. Comics are now commodities. D84 and Primetime 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBedrock Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 2 hours ago, pickycollector said: Comics are now commodities. I wish all comics other than mine were free. Cobbledclam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou_fine Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 21 minutes ago, MrBedrock said: 3 hours ago, pickycollector said: Comics are now commodities. I wish all comics other than mine were free. Better yet, I wish you would pay me to haul away some of your long forgotten GA books so that you would have more free space to store all of those red hot MA newsstand variants that you must be getting into your stores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...