• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Heritage's Next Event Auction has started posting books !
31 31

Started by Gotham Kid,

7,935 posts in this topic

Professor K

Professor K

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/18/2024 at 3:15 PM, MrBedrock said:

That, for some reason, the first time it was graded they deducted for the writing on the cover.

Ah, I knew there had to be a reasonable explanation. Grade lowered because of the word Okajima written on it?

I want that grader fired! 

 

Edited by Professor K
Link to comment
Share on other sites
MrBedrock

MrBedrock

Posted
Posted
On 1/18/2024 at 2:49 PM, Professor K said:

Ah, I knew there had to be a reasonable explanation. Grade lowered because of the word Okajima written on it?

I want that grader fired! 

brimmer-rage.jpg

I'm just guessing, but it seems like a possibility. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
EastEnd1

EastEnd1

Posted
Posted
On 1/17/2024 at 6:04 PM, TheLexLuthorCollection said:

Swagglehaus (Mickey Finnegan) on You Tube actually covered this suspicious sale recently.  He suggested that perhaps there may be some money laundering going on.  Automatic Comics (Ryan) on You Tube also noticed exorbitant prices being paid for "run filler" DC books on Heritage.  For example, 2 weeks ago, he pointed out three Teen Titans issues at 9.8 selling for between $12K- $21K each.   A few months ago, he pointed a Superman #35 CGC 7.5 selling for $5K and a Superman $45 CGC 6.0 selling for about $4k.  Something was definitely off with all these sales given that it takes "two to tango" to reach these prices so it can't be just one "dumb bidder".  It should be noted that Heritage is not obligated to report auction transactions to the IRS which tends to give some credence to Swagglehaus' suggestion that money laundering may be at work.  

I noticed those Teen Titans sales myself... truly bizarre.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Professor K

Professor K

Posted
Posted
On 1/18/2024 at 3:51 PM, MrBedrock said:

I'm just guessing, but it seems like a possibility. 

Oh,  It's a possibility. Probably a probability. Or a darn good excuse to regrade a book from F/VF to NM. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe it had a real good press and was cleaned up a bit. 

Still doesn't look 9.4 to me but I'm not a trained and qualified grader. It looks better than 7.0 I'll give it that. (thumbsu

On 1/18/2024 at 4:06 PM, EastEnd1 said:

I noticed those Teen Titans sales myself... truly bizarre.

Teen Titans 14 9.8 for over 20,000? 2 on the census. My 9.2 sold for 149.00 bucks a few months ago with better page quality and a pedigree to boot.. 150X less than the 9.8

On 1/18/2024 at 4:16 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

I guess you've never seen this one (although the bump took two tries):

 

Boy 17 4.0.JPG

Boy 17 7.5.JPG

Boy 17 9.0.JPG

Better call Giunness because that has to be a world record grade bump. Nice copy though, I'll even call it real beauty.  They sure were strict back then. (shrug)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jimbo_7071

jimbo_7071

Posted
Posted
On 1/18/2024 at 7:39 PM, Professor K said:

 Better call Giunness because that has to be a world record grade bump. Nice copy though, I'll even call it real beauty.  They sure were strict back then. (shrug)

It originally had a detached centerfold. Matt Nelson manipulated the staples to hold the centerfold in place. That accounted for part of the grade bump.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
buttock

buttock

Posted
Posted
On 1/18/2024 at 7:28 PM, szav said:

The old graders notes have been obliterated or removed, but the new ones give a clue, and the bump it got may not be the scandalous (as long as we don't turn this into an argument about pressing).  Clearly the book had "moderate to heavy torquing whole book" before it was lovingly flattened....  It'd have been interesting anyway to have seen the before and after.  It's got enough of a twist to it that they still noted it now, but if it was really bad before why not a 7.0.

image.png.1e533bb4a033076f5feb4d0e9ca51d0f.png

 

Torquing probably refers to the miswrap.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
atomised

atomised

Posted
Posted
On 1/17/2024 at 3:04 PM, TheLexLuthorCollection said:

Swagglehaus (Mickey Finnegan) on You Tube actually covered this suspicious sale recently.  He suggested that perhaps there may be some money laundering going on.  Automatic Comics (Ryan) on You Tube also noticed exorbitant prices being paid for "run filler" DC books on Heritage.  For example, 2 weeks ago, he pointed out three Teen Titans issues at 9.8 selling for between $12K- $21K each.   A few months ago, he pointed a Superman #35 CGC 7.5 selling for $5K and a Superman $45 CGC 6.0 selling for about $4k.  Something was definitely off with all these sales given that it takes "two to tango" to reach these prices so it can't be just one "dumb bidder".  It should be noted that Heritage is not obligated to report auction transactions to the IRS which tends to give some credence to Swagglehaus' suggestion that money laundering may be at work.  

I like Swagglehouse and maybe he's on the boards, I don't know.  That video though was a real reach.  There are easier ways to launder money then to get involved in niche golden age books.  Maybe there are some nerdy crooks out there, but that video was a bit much.  If you want to launder the cash, you don't have to overpay for a book.  Just buy an expensive book at fair market value.  The whole premise is flawed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
WolverineX

WolverineX

Posted
Posted
On 1/19/2024 at 1:03 AM, atomised said:

I like Swagglehouse and maybe he's on the boards, I don't know.  That video though was a real reach.  There are easier ways to launder money then to get involved in niche golden age books.  Maybe there are some nerdy crooks out there, but that video was a bit much.  If you want to launder the cash, you don't have to overpay for a book.  Just buy an expensive book at fair market value.  The whole premise is flawed.

Yes, or just go to a casino.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jimbo_7071

jimbo_7071

Posted
Posted
On 1/19/2024 at 1:03 AM, atomised said:

I like Swagglehouse and maybe he's on the boards, I don't know.  That video though was a real reach.  There are easier ways to launder money then to get involved in niche golden age books.  Maybe there are some nerdy crooks out there, but that video was a bit much.  If you want to launder the cash, you don't have to overpay for a book.  Just buy an expensive book at fair market value.  The whole premise is flawed.

Several years ago some jerk used a Heritage comic book auction in an attempt to launder money that he had embezzled from his company, so it has actually happened.

https://www.theverge.com/2015/7/22/8870089/texas-comic-book-heist-anthony-chiofalo-tadano

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
WolverineX

WolverineX

Posted
Posted
On 1/19/2024 at 8:47 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

Several years ago some jerk used a Heritage comic book auction in an attempt to launder money that he had embezzled from his company, so it has actually happened.

https://www.theverge.com/2015/7/22/8870089/texas-comic-book-heist-anthony-chiofalo-tadano

 

 

Probably should have just gone to the casino... Or create a shell company in Delaware or buy crypto.  those comic books were too trackable. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Popular Post
lou_fine

lou_fine

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted
On 1/18/2024 at 7:14 AM, tth2 said:

7.0 to 9.4. 

Man I love this hobby!!!!

 

On 1/18/2024 at 6:29 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

It originally had a detached centerfold. Matt Nelson manipulated the staples to hold the centerfold in place. That accounted for part of the grade bump.

 

On 1/18/2024 at 8:40 PM, szav said:

I guess the 7.0 could have been miswrapped to the same degree and there were some other previous defects unknown now that were removed by the pressing.  

Been away from the boards for a couple of months while traversing the safe and friendly waters of the Red Sea, as compared to the flak I am sure to get from the CGC acolytes with respect to my post here.  :fear: lol

Still looks like the same old, same old here on the boards though and don't really see the point to rehash old battles as the comic book mechanics and comic book doctors clearly won the war some 15 plus long years ago and who have now come out from their darkened dungeons to bask in the winning spoils of the bright sunlight.  :acclaim:

I just find it kind of ironic though that although one of the original tenets of CGC was to protect the hobby from the scourge of restoration, we now find ourselves with a grading system that rewards those who partake in hidden and undisclosed manipulation of books while punishing those who choose not to partake in it.  Although it has often been stated that CGC has raised the level of grading to a new standard in the marketplace, I wonder if it can also be argued at the same time that CGC has also brought the hobby's collecting base down to a "controlled" version of what Borock used to call the dreaded days of the Wild Wild West. (:

One clear example of this being this Okajima copy of Shadow Comics V4#1 here that appears to be in virtually the same condition wise at least from a strict visual POV without actually having it in hand, and yet can actually jump 6 grade increments from CGC 7.0 up to CGC 9.4.  This would indicate to me not so much that there is anything majorly wrong with the book itself to warrant this significant grade difference, but more so that the grading system that we now have in place has been bent and twisted so much so just in order to target the additional revenue generating defects. hm

I imagine it's clearly about the dollar signs here and the current grading system means so much more money for all parties involved who chooses to play the game.  I guess it's really a case of to each their own, but being an old school type of collector, I personally wished CGC had made certification all about just grading the darn book the way it is, instead of making it all about maximizing its potential before having the book graded.  Then again, it is what it is, so if you want to have your books ceritified without being pummeled when it comes to that number in the top left hand corner, you really need to know the rules and sadly play the game accordingly.  :(

So, while the boys at CGC are busy prepping for their next huge money making but labor intensive and very costly (for the submittors of course) CGC 9.9 pre-screening service, I've already got my steamroller on hold along with a huge gigantic size bottle of Mr. Clean to ensure that I'll have the flattest and cleanest books to ever cross a CGC grading light table.  lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites
lou_fine

lou_fine

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/14/2024 at 2:21 PM, szav said:

I know its' the Church copy and highest graded, but with the miscut and top edge shadow I wasn't expecting 18k.  This result certainly cements the regrets of many who sold a copy and may have been entertaining the idea of getting one back.

image.png.ebbdf3460a05ac66324bac291935c9cc.png

Yep, definitely a very strong price as it looks like the crazed marketplace has really gone crazy gaga for these skull covers.  :jawdrop:

Makes me really regret passing up on the Church copy of this partial skull cover book here back in the day, figuring that nobdy would ever want a Street & Smith Publications book:  doh!

image.png.feeacda26d49a4c73d9de505f8a4f133.png

No idea what it would go for in today's marketplace, but clearly more than the mere pittance I could have gotten it for back in the day, especially considering that there's only 11 graded copies as compared to the 23 graded copies for the Shadow Comics V3 #12 that was still able to fetched a whopping $18K.  :cry:

Edited by lou_fine
Link to comment
Share on other sites
TheLexLuthorCollection

TheLexLuthorCollection

Posted
Posted

The jump in grade from 7.0 to 9.4 for the Okajima book certainly sounds mind boggling but the 7.0 looks to me that it was under graded.

Personally, I find that the grading companies provide a valuable service despite the recent reholder scandal and this issue with the Okajima book.  I don't trust any dealer to grade a book accurately.  The temptation to over grade is too great and every sight unseen purchase that I have made has been a disappointment.  With most of the premium stuff being sold at auction and through the internet, I welcome companies such as CGC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
31 31
Go to topic listing