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[VintageComics]

On 10/5/2024 at 11:20 AM, Krydel4 said:

Books that are "compacted" (as that is the proper term for the method you describe of using weight) eventually rebound back to what they were before. It is still a method of attempting to restore a book to a previous condition in a more passive manner. Using a heat press as means is an active manipulation and in most cases does change the structure of the book irrevocably. I've examined many books that were sent to cgc and used their pressing services. They all have the same tell tale signs of pressing and when compared with a non pressed book of the same grade the difference between the two is stark. I'm also not arguing that pressing has become accepted as means of, as others have said, maximizing potential. It is a form of accepted restoration. And the main reason it became acceptable was that there was money to made by doing so. As humans have demonstrated time and again we are more than willingly to adapt our principles or standards when there is money to made. I don't wish to hijack this thread anymore than we have. Your opinion seems to be as intractable as mine. Cheers for the debate. Back to your regularly scheduled Heritage thread.

I don't see a problem with having a debate within a debate as that's the lifeblood of the boards, but I want to also leave you with a thought:

If there is a bend in a cover, and I bend the paper in the opposite direction effectively, eliminating the bend and increasing the grade, that's also restoration in the strictest sense.

But it's not restoration in the hobby's sense. 

And I think that's where we disagree. What is technically restoring a book to a previous state using non-additive methods is "restoration" technically, but not restoration in terms the hobby has accepted. 

In those Hawaii books I found, all of the book's covers were FLAT. The typical pressing roller indents you see on many SA books were gone. It was due to the humidity in the air that they flattened out. 

And I don't personally see it as a compromising of principles. I see it as an acceptance of practicality.

I respect your opinion and how you feel about it.

----------------------------------------------------

Incidentally, in case anyone was interested, that Hawaii collection had all the markings of an incredible Pedigree except that the books were placed in their final resting place in a way that ended up destroying the books before I got to them. The backstory is fascinating. 

The collector was purchasing books off the newsstand in the early-mid 1950's - every title / issue available (mostly Marvel / DC) and well into the 1980's, and by the late 1950's was keeping them in impeccable shape. 

The collector stored the books in tall stacks in his room. He was a paraplegic that become quadriplegic. When he became quadriplegic, he would send his nephew to the newsstand to buy the books for him every week. 

After his passing away, the entire collection was placed in a metal shipping container that was stored outside, and being subjected to the elements, it was there that the collection was mostly destroyed, being affected by the weather, bugs and rodents. 

When I went to view the collection we spent two days going through boxes and boxes of ruined books as we pulled them out of the shipping container to inspect, and managed to cull a only small stack of about 20 or 25 books of early to mid 60's Marvels. FF #1 up (not complete) and JIM issues in the #100's to about #120 (not complete). 

Everything else was ruined and most were not salvageable. The family kept a few gems as keepsakes. 

The FF #1 was ruined and graded a VG 4.0 due to water damage from a stack of books. The FF #2 was an 8.5 that was basically NM with a bit of bug chew. The rest of the books all graded in the NM range. 

It was a wild find and bittersweet at the same time. 

[BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES]

Two things about attitudes toward restoration that baffle me.

One is when a person says

Personally, I would rather have no copy than have a copy with color touch, trimming or pieces added. I

I don't get that at all, unless you're not motivated at all to collect something for its content, but rather it's condition, then I should be able to get a fortune for a dead mint copy I bought some years ago of Reader's Digest from May, 1939, same month Batman debuted and absolutely perfect. I imagine well nigh impossible to beat and could be the best condition copy in the world.

The other thing that baffles me is that damage done to a book affects its value not based on how much damage was done but on what is believed to have been going on in the mind of the person who did the damage.  A scribbled mustache on Superman's face?  No problem.  A tiny dot of black ink in a black field of the cover?  Big problem. Unless, you can somehow prove (perhaps with a signed and notarized affidavit) that the black dot was made entirely be accident, when a kid was planning to write his name or draw a mustache on Superman and accidentally dropped the pen).   And if it cannot be proved accidental, then the book can be greatly increased in value by simply tearing away an inch of paper all around the section where the offending dot had been.

Finally (which I guess makes it three things that confuse me), if the intent behind condemning restoration was to disincentivize damage (or 'desecration') to a book, then that has failed because it's ended up incentivizing people to destroy books.

The way the market is now, if you have any book which cannot be labeled unrestored and complete then, rather than restore it or complete it, you will get much more money for it if you tear it apart and sell it in pieces.  

    

  

Edited October 5 by BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES

[Professor K]

Romance books I was watching. They all went cheap I think. I assume lots of them did.  1,320 for a 6.5 Star Pop Teen 5. Under 1k for a 9.4 Church with a black cover to boot. Good deals. 

[batman_fan]

This one showed up on Heritage

[Robot Man]

On 10/5/2024 at 10:10 PM, Professor K said:

Romance books I was watching. They all went cheap I think. I assume lots of them did.  1,320 for a 6.5 Star Pop Teen 5. Under 1k for a 9.4 Church with a black cover to boot. Good deals. 

I have that Love Journal 16 in similar shape. Always liked the cover. Had NO idea it was worth even close to that much. 

I’ve been looking for that Scream 17 for like forever with no luck. I can see the justification for the price considering the scarcity and the fact it is the Mile High copy. 

[jimbo_7071]

On 10/6/2024 at 10:44 AM, Robot Man said:

I have that Love Journal 16 in similar shape. Always liked the cover. Had NO idea it was worth even close to that much. 

I’ve been looking for that Scream 17 for like forever with no luck. I can see the justification for the price considering the scarcity and the fact it is the Mile High copy. 

I see what you mean about the Scream, but I'm not sure too many collectors are chasing that one. It could be a tough book to break even on at that price if the seller ever decides to get rid of it.

As for the romance books, all of the ones that have been selling like hotcakes are at risk of a big correction if these strong prices being more copies out of the woodwork. I don't think we have a clear picture of how rare any of those romance books are yet.

Edited October 6 by jimbo_7071

[Robot Man]

On 10/6/2024 at 8:11 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

I see what you mean about the Scream, but I'm not sure too many collectors are chasing that one. It could a tough book to break even on at that price if the seller ever decides to get rid of it.

As for the romance books, all of the ones that have been selling like hotcakes are at risk of a big correction if these strong prices being more copies out of the woodwork. I don't think we have a clear picture of how rare any of those romance books are yet.

Both are kind of niche books. Wasn’t that long ago that they were very cheap if you wanted them and could find them.

I think these prices are due to the fact of just a couple collectors fighting over them. Probably with very little intent for resale.

Romance books have gotton very hot. Too hot, too quick. I also believe there will be some price correction down the road. Those who bought them before the “surge” like me, are sitting pretty. Problem is I didn’t buy enough because the genre wasn’t as appealing to me. 

[Gotham Kid]

On 10/6/2024 at 3:37 PM, batman_fan said:

This one showed up on Heritage

Nov auction