How good of a deal is too good of a deal? 1 1

[Bookery]

6 hours ago, kav said:

Captain America would never give unsuspecting seller $5 for hi dollar book.

The End

Actually, I've heard it told the Red Skull never had patience for keeping up with scarce variants.  Pretty sure Cap' got some of them on the cheap at the last Chicago con where Skull was set up.  I've even heard he got a bit smug about it... but it's just hearsay as I wasn't there.  But I tend to believe it as there's a history between the two of them.

[Bookery]

One thing to point out, however.. Even if you are on solid ethical ground, that doesn't mean you can't be sued.  Now, it's going to be hard for anyone to win a lawsuit because you paid what someone was asking for at a garage sale.  But if you are a shop, and someone feels you took advantage of them... even if they agreed on the price at the time... you can be sued.  And the sad reality is, a jury, or even a judge, is going to usually side against the big bad businessman over the poor helpless consumer, if not every time... pretty dang near it.  If you can show what you paid is fairly standard for your industry, you might have a chance.  If, however, they interview other dealers and find you paid about 10% of what everyone else does... you're going to get hit with paying restitution.  Now, nobody is going to sue because you paid $50 for a $1000 book because it's a no-win with legal fees.  But if they find out you paid $500 for $50,000 worth of books... there's a pretty good chance they will sue and you will lose.  That's just the way it is.

[Aweandlorder]

I can think of many other unethical things to complain about. Here are a few my wife listed:

not washing the dishes after supper...

leaving my slippers all over the house....

singing too loud in the shower...

argue with her mom about politics...

taking less than 2 minutes in bed...

not doing the bed after.....

 

as you can see.. plenty of unethicality there 

 

[Prince Namor]

On 7/2/2019 at 5:53 AM, Chuck Gower said:

CGC boards:

"If a dealer buys a Hulk #181 for $5 from someone it's unethical!"

BUT...

"I found a Hulk #181 for $5... tough luck for the dealer!"

Suddenly 'ethics' aren't in the discussion.

Pure hypocrisy. 

Still nothing.

A whole thread devoted to what?... a forum member made a bad deal once with a shady comic dealer and now wants to paint the whole lot of them as unethical? 

Yet we have a whole FORUM where members discuss great deals that took advantage of comic dealers... apparently THAT isn't unethical at all.

No discussion on this yet.

[Prince Namor]

1 hour ago, Bookery said:

One thing to point out, however.. Even if you are on solid ethical ground, that doesn't mean you can't be sued.  Now, it's going to be hard for anyone to win a lawsuit because you paid what someone was asking for at a garage sale.  But if you are a shop, and someone feels you took advantage of them... even if they agreed on the price at the time... you can be sued.  And the sad reality is, a jury, or even a judge, is going to usually side against the big bad businessman over the poor helpless consumer, if not every time... pretty dang near it.  If you can show what you paid is fairly standard for your industry, you might have a chance.  If, however, they interview other dealers and find you paid about 10% of what everyone else does... you're going to get hit with paying restitution.  Now, nobody is going to sue because you paid $50 for a $1000 book because it's a no-win with legal fees.  But if they find out you paid $500 for $50,000 worth of books... there's a pretty good chance they will sue and you will lose.  That's just the way it is.

True. I just don't see it happening on a regular basis. 

Unlike the bragging rights for bargains found at a comic shop or a show that the DEALER loses out on because... he wasn't given the knowledge that some feel everyone should share? He didn't have time to educate himself on every book?

We hear about these deals regularly on this forum.

Nobody's getting sued THERE. And apparently the same people screaming about ethics are just find turning a blind eye to that.

That's pretty much the definition of hypocrisy.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Chuck Gower

[Prince Namor]

If this were dealers bragging here in these threads, all chaos would break loose. But apparently for amateur comic buyers/sellers, it's fair game. Hypocrisy?

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/forum/16-modern-age-comic-books/

[Prince Namor]

An artist charging for his signature: Outrageous! Get out the pitch forks!

A comic book shop making a profit: Outrageous! Get out the pitch forks!

The casual fan buying a KEY from a dealers $1 box and then flipping it for big money: Acceptable. Let's brag!

The state of the hobby today.

 

 

Note: Personally, I find all three to be acceptable. I find the hypocrisy of the above to situation to be mind numbing. We get it - you made a bad deal once, and a dealer took advantage of it. I've sold books for DECADES at prices lower than I should have. Get over it.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Chuck Gower

[Prince Namor]

Did I ramp up the hyperbole enough to match where this thread has gone?

[blazingbob]

I generally find that people who take advantage of others get taken advantage of themselves.

Kharma is what goes around comes around.

It is one thing to get an atta boy because of hard work,  it is another if you did it at the expense of someone else. 

 

 

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by blazingbob

[revat]

26 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

I can think of many other unethical things to complain about. Here are a few my wife listed:

not washing the dishes after supper...

leaving my slippers all over the house....

singing too loud in the shower...

argue with her mom about politics...

taking less than 2 minutes in bed...

not doing the bed after.....

 

as you can see.. plenty of unethicality there 

 

Wearing sandals w socks

[theCapraAegagrus]

How is winning an eBay auction even relative..?

[Bookery]

13 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

True. I just don't see it happening on a regular basis. 

Unlike the bragging rights for bargains found at a comic shop or a show that the DEALER loses out on because... he wasn't given the knowledge that some feel everyone should share? He didn't have time to educate himself on every book?

We hear about these deals regularly on this forum.

Nobody's getting sued THERE. And apparently the same people screaming about ethics are just find turning a blind eye to that.

That's pretty much the definition of hypocrisy.

I agree... I'm sure it doesn't happen much.  But I'm also sure that (using my own example) dealers having people walk into their shops offering $50,000 in comics for $500 doesn't happen much either.  These debates are usually about extreme examples that probably aren't going to show up but very very rarely (or in the case of the oft-used Action #1... never).  I choose to inform my customers of what they have as a business decision.  But the operative word is choose.  I don't believe I have a moral obligation to do so as long as I do nothing to deceive them (directly or indirectly).  And again... when I'm "off duty"... shopping at a flea market, auction, or garage sale... I am under no obligation to inform them of anything... they chose to act as a dealer and sell their merchandise themselves, and it was their duty to learn about the merchandise they are handling.  When they come to me... whether they state it or not... they are counting on my expertise and integrity.  When I go to them... the responsibility is on them (though again, 9 times out of 10 that garage saler has $20 marked on $1-comics... not the other way around).

Informing my customers about what they have and why I'll pay them "x" (even sometimes if it's more than they ask) is pure self-interest.  It doesn't always work, but in the long run I think it has gotten me more collections than I've lost.  In fact, my self-interest is such that I have no qualms about informing them that my competitors (if this were true) will not willingly explain things to  them in the same way.  Were the posters on this board my local competitors (they're not) I might even share print-outs of this thread to point out how they are less likely to treat them as well as I am.  I'm not looking to be a nice guy... I'm choosing a path that I think makes me more competitive.  But this only works if you are in a fixed location (or are a fixed convention presence) where long-term reputation matters.  If you show up for a Craig's List sale, there is no long term reputation to be had.

[Prince Namor]

13 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

I generally find that people who take advantage of others get taken advantage of themselves.

Kharma is what goes around comes around.

It is one thing to get an atta boy because of hard work,  it is another if you did it at the expense of someone else. 

Agreed. And I don't think anyone here is disputing that.

But some here feel that, if a dealer makes an offer on a collection of books, and they end up netting him a huge profit. He's being dishonest. 

Whereas an amateur buyer/seller, who finds a key in a dealers dollar box and makes a huge profit off of it, is perfectly fine.

 

They (some of the people here) feel that every book YOU buy, you should price out at FMV and then pay a specific percentage for, that is easily recognizable and within their judgement.

[Bookery]

18 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Did I ramp up the hyperbole enough to match where this thread has gone?

Not yet.  But we'll all chip in and help as we go along...

[Bookery]

46 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

I can think of many other unethical things to complain about. Here are a few my wife listed:

not washing the dishes after supper...

leaving my slippers all over the house....

singing too loud in the shower...

argue with her mom about politics...

taking less than 2 minutes in bed...

not doing the bed after.....

 

as you can see.. plenty of unethicality there 

 

What's your eBay name so I can block you?

[Prince Namor]

5 minutes ago, Bookery said:

I agree... I'm sure it doesn't happen much.  But I'm also sure that (using my own example) dealers having people walk into their shops offering $50,000 in comics for $500 doesn't happen much either.  These debates are usually about extreme examples that probably aren't going to show up but very very rarely (or in the case of the oft-used Action #1... never).  I choose to inform my customers of what they have as a business decision.  But the operative word is choose.  I don't believe I have a moral obligation to do so as long as I do nothing to deceive them (directly or indirectly).  And again... when I'm "off duty"... shopping at a flea market, auction, or garage sale... I am under no obligation to inform them of anything... they chose to act as a dealer and sell their merchandise themselves, and it was their duty to learn about the merchandise they are handling.  When they come to me... whether they state it or not... they are counting on my expertise and integrity.  When I go to them... the responsibility is on them (though again, 9 times out of 10 that garage saler has $20 marked on $1-comics... not the other way around).

Informing my customers about what they have and why I'll pay them "x" (even sometimes if it's more than they ask) is pure self-interest.  It doesn't always work, but in the long run I think it has gotten me more collections than I've lost.  In fact, my self-interest is such that I have no qualms about informing them that my competitors (if this were true) will not willingly explain things to  them in the same way.  Were the posters on this board my local competitors (they're not) I might even share print-outs of this thread to point out how they are less likely to treat them as well as I am.  I'm not looking to be a nice guy... I'm choosing a path that I think makes me more competitive.  But this only works if you are in a fixed location (or are a fixed convention presence) where long-term reputation matters.  If you show up for a Craig's List sale, there is no long term reputation to be had.

Right. And THIS is what 100% of the people are going to SAY here.

The dealer who IS a shady character isn't going to post and explain why he doesn't care and what methods he uses to cheat people, etc.

That's why I find this whole topic unsavory in the first place, because it lumps all dealers together in some people's eyes, as someone not to trust. 

 

[Jeffro.]

51 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Yet we have a whole FORUM where members discuss great deals that took advantage of comic dealers... apparently THAT isn't unethical at all.

That's okay. Comic collectors = Robin Hood. Comic Dealers = Sheriff of Nottingham

[Bookery]

16 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

The dealer who IS a shady character isn't going to post and explain why he doesn't care and what methods he uses to cheat people, etc.

I'm going to take it a step further and state that ANY dealer who has NOT posted on here can indeed be assumed to be a shady character.

(It's my rumor and I'm sticking to it.  I recommend selling to me just to be on the safe side).

[NoMan]

1 hour ago, revat said:

Wearing sandals w socks

wearing a baseball cap backwards

[Prince Namor]

25 minutes ago, Bookery said:

I'm going to take it a step further and state that ANY dealer who has NOT posted on here can indeed be assumed to be a shady character.

(It's my rumor and I'm sticking to it.  I recommend selling to me just to be on the safe side).

Sarcasm doesn’t show through in print quite as well as most people would choose it to.