Blastaar Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) Received a commission from a known talent and it just doesn’t look very good. Price was fairly minimal but nothing to throw out the window. The concept was followed and it was turned in just a few moths, but the art and proportions are just off. I followed back up with him and just said “thank you very much, I appreciated the time and effort”. I won’t be displaying it and it will end up being stored away. Felt like I just tossed my money away. What’s the protocol? Roll the dice or send it back like an undercooked steak? I wanted to keep the relationship solid as I respect his work and perhaps might get another one and just voice that I would like it tightened up more. Edited October 30, 2019 by Blastaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 If he turned in substandard work to a comic company, they’d tell him to redraw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will_K Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 It seems like you're referring to the finished product, not necessarily one of those "take the money and run" situations. I've been underwhelmed by a $700 convention drawing on 11 x 17, paid for it at the show. The artist was working on it off and on during the convention. Then I watched him knock out a nice looking $100 (or so) sketch cover. Disappointing, I'll never commission him again. The artist has a variety of styles and maybe the art was consistent with one of those styles but it wasn't in the realm of what I was hoping for, especially at that price. I've been underwhelmed by a $125 commission that took over 2 years to deliver. Didn't really mind the wait, even if I saw him posting art for sale on ebay during that time. I thought the commission was basically fine. But it was ruined because the artist added an element that he probably thought would be cute. Maybe because there was a blank spot and he felt that something should be there. But it was a weird anachronism that threw off the rest of the commission. Not getting another commission from him. In my situations, I think the artist didn't really have a feel or the character(s) and just didn't know what to do. In the future, I might get art by the artists but I won't get anything directly from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post thethedew Posted October 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said: If he turned in substandard work to a comic company, they’d tell him to redraw it. Yes, but they're a publisher. A consignor doesn't have the same leverage. Not every commission is going to be a home run, some are weak bloop singles. I have a few. You're best filing it away. IMO. mister_not_so_nice, Andahaion, Blastaar and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voord Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 In the days of scanners and e-mail, I would have asked for a work-in-progress photo, subject to revision if needed. timguerrero 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick2you2 Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 I have generally lived with it and become more cautious about who I hire, along with the directions I give. Start by looking carefully at his work. Has he done the character before? (That is, a him or a her. I am not in the mood for grammatical niceties). If not, has he done something roughly similar? If so, you are likely to get your character the same way even if not that similar to yours. It would be helpful to refer him to what he has done before as guidance. I also like to give artists reference material to make sure they give me the version I want and not the version they find on their own. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapeape Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Bob Layton is a pro. I asked him for a Dr. Doom. $100. He worked on it during a one day show and I collected it at the end of the day. It was tight and wonderful. Rich Buckler another pro. My brother and I commissioned numerous pieces mailed back to us in reasonable amount of time. Wonderful detailed work. I could handle getting back a disappointing effort. Like most of you I wouldn’t go back for more. its a thrill to have a returned commission that matched or exceeded expectations. To get less than the artists best effort is a buzz kill. You always hope the artist gives you his best. I cringe when I hear about months and years going by and a collector patiently waits for what he paid for and never gets. What would be helpful? I understand reluctance to out a poor effort. But please name names on deadbeats to help the rest of us. There is no excuse for taking money and not getting the work done. timguerrero and The Lions Den 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagnusX Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 27 minutes ago, grapeape said: What would be helpful? I understand reluctance to out a poor effort. But please name names on deadbeats to help the rest of us. There is no excuse for taking money and not getting the work done + 1 grapeape 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 31 minutes ago, grapeape said: What would be helpful? I understand reluctance to out a poor effort. But please name names on deadbeats to help the rest of us. There is no excuse for taking money and not getting the work done. I suggest the best approach is to to put these in the commission thread, naming the artist, price paid and showing a picture. Most of us can form our own opinions from there if what we see is what we'd expect from the amount of money paid and name paid to. And those that haven't delivered...same thing except a picture of a blank piece of paper instead of art. All stories get told this way, without blatant rancor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bird Posted October 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 26, 2019 You pay for the time and effort and a professional approach but you have to accept that not every drawing is a home run. File it away and move on. You can negotiate a refusal in your original contract (and I have on occasion) but I generally suck it up even in those circumstances. cloud cloddie, newshane, thethedew and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapeape Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, Bird said: You pay for the time and effort and a professional approach but you have to accept that not every drawing is a home run. File it away and move on. You can negotiate a refusal in your original contract (and I have on occasion) but I generally suck it up even in those circumstances. Yeah art is subjective I would have a hard time coming back to an artist and telling him/her I didn’t like the art. i would eat the loss. In fact my best ever results came from leaving it in the artists hands. I will pick the character but let them draw it however they please. Talk about asking for disappointment. I’ve been lucky though. dichotomy, Grib and Noob19 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapeape Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Blastaar said: Received a commission from a known talent and it just doesn’t look very good. Price was fairly minimal but nothing to throw out the window, $300. The concept was followed and it was turned in just a few moths, but the art and proportions are just off. I followed back up with him and just said “thank you very much, I appreciated the time and effort”. I won’t be displaying it and it will end up being stored away. Felt like I just tossed my money away. What’s the protocol? Roll the dice or send it back like an undercooked steak? I wanted to keep the relationship solid as I respect his work and perhaps might get another one and just voice that I would like it tightened up more. I think you handled this disappointment with class. Some artists deliberately draw a certain way based on what you pay them. $300 for this artists maybe they think they gave you what you paid for. sometimes the artist gives you clues on what to expect. Showing you examples of previous work and sale price based on detail, number of characters and size. I would do what you did and eat the loss. Find a piece (eBay or auction) close to what you were trying to get. Find a piece that’s quality and matches your desire. Pay up. Then dump that crappy effort piece buried on the last sleeve in your portfolio on eBay Buy it Now $300. Sorry for your disappointment. Go find something you love and buy it. Best 🍇. 🦍 Edited October 26, 2019 by grapeape The Lions Den and Noob19 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapeape Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 20 minutes ago, vodou said: I suggest the best approach is to to put these in the commission thread, naming the artist, price paid and showing a picture. Most of us can form our own opinions from there if what we see is what we'd expect from the amount of money paid and name paid to. And those that haven't delivered...same thing except a picture of a blank piece of paper instead of art. All stories get told this way, without blatant rancor. Minus blatant rancor? With this band of merry troublemakers??? These crazed pranksters and mirth makers? I think you are right, handle this in the commission thread? But chaos will surely reign What do we put in the subject line? Commissions that smell like fresh A h•!€ or more subtle You call that art???? The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grendel72 Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 If you are gonna "out" him in the commission thread, then do you think you should first contact the artist and tell him/her your concerns and see if he does right by you I.e., redo the commission or partial refund etc. You could post the response by the artist if you want. For all we know the artist may believe it was a good commission. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastaar Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 I would never "out" him. He is a good dude and everything I have seen from his commissions have been spot on. And like I said I would even go back to him with a bit more instructions. What turned me off is heavy marker usage which I can't stand, probably should have mentioned it. Noob19, Point Five, grapeape and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grib Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 3 hours ago, The Voord said: In the days of scanners and e-mail, I would have asked for a work-in-progress photo, subject to revision if needed. Artist turn this stuff out to make money, for a small $300 dollar commission the time to scan and post to show you takes away from money making. Your project isn't large enough for that level of customer care/work. I too have bought from a few artist some pieces that I feel are sub-par but they are a known artist with resale value. If you are not happy with it and the artist has a name sell it and get a piece you want. Break even or better and move on is my advice. grapeape 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newshane Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 You're stuck with it. As long as the artist delivered what was promised (in regards to medium, size, format, basic design), then there is nothing you can, or should, do. Most artists give examples of what they can do at particular price points. As long as the level of detail is similar, once again, there is nothing you can or should do. I've gotten a few turds myself, I'm afraid. grapeape and timguerrero 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dichotomy Posted October 27, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) I have a lot of feels about this topic. I love pursuing commissions and I put a lot of time and effort into them. But... 1. I can't draw at all. My artistic ability makes Tom King's sketches look like Frank Quitely work. So I have GREAT admiration for anyone who creates for a living. I approach every artist with this mindset. I do not bargain (and I greatly appreciate when the prices are clearly posted for all to see, whether on a website or a convention table). I do a lot of research, and I look at a lot of past work when I have the option. 2. I do not art direct. If we are having a conversation and an idea comes up organically that is different, but if it's over email or over a con table, I try to have a brief conversation to make sure our ideals are aligned and that there is, silly as it sounds, a 'good vibe'. The one time I ignored this feeling is the one time I got a commission not to my taste that I know I could have avoided. Similarly, I always try to have some CHOICES for the artist. I understand for some people the whole point is to get a certain character from a certain artist, and there is nothing wrong with that, but again, make sure it is a realistic ask. Challenge the artist in a good way, to see something in a new light. I can't even fathom the process by which an artist begins to form an image in their mind and then on paper - hokey as it may sound I try to make sure that the origin of that idea is something that flows well with the artist and works with THEIR process. 3. Not to beat a dead horse, but I will once again put @nexus up on a pedestal as the NEED and BENEFIT of a good rep. He mentioned in one of his podcasts that one of this jobs is to vet commissions. A fresh pair of eyes NEVER hurts a busy artist. Surely no artist worth their salt wants a bad representation of their work splashed around social media. A rep has a vested interest in making sure their clients are well represented AND that their customers are satisfied. And I've said this before, a good rep at a convention helps keep the work flow organized, makes sure the artist doesn't take on more than they can handle, and ensures there is a consistent level of work for price (to address the issue of a $700 commission vs a $100 sketch cover). Again, not all artists are fortunate enough to have good representation, and some artist do extremely well by themselves - but for all the complaints on this board, there's a rep for that. 4. If you get a commission that you don't absolutely love, you say thank you very much, pay the agreed upon amount, and leave. Come back to the commission later, spend some time with it. It may grow on you. And you may stick it in a portfolio and never look at it again. This is the hobby, the thrill and the disappointment of being a patron. 5. Naming is something that should be reserved for serial, confirmed offenders. All anyone in this hobby has is their reputation. Happy collecting! I currently have 7 commissions out in the wild growing at various stages. My convention sketches (https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerydetailsearch.asp?gcat=108264&ATy=8&pm=1&pi=18&order=Date) and commissions (https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerydetailsearch.asp?aty=2&gcat=108264). There are a couple that are second-hand. To date I have only received 1 (out of roughly 25) that I have not posted and just got rid of. Everything else went up as a representation of the artist's work. They may not all be auction busters, but they're mine dammit! Edited October 27, 2019 by dichotomy Blastaar, laidback26, Grib and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 I’ve had three commissions done so far. One was 700, one was 1600, one was 7k. The $1600 job was professional and well done and I feel I got exactly what I paid for and was happy with the result. The $700 job, the artist went above and beyond and just nailed exactly what I wanted. The $7k job didn’t turn out the way I wanted. He put in the work and he tried to listen to what I wanted but in the end it was a swing and a miss. You never know what you’re going to get and if they did the work, you take the bad with the good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dichotomy Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) An addendum regarding a collaborative commission - I've recently had a few artists offer to send me updates of the process - this was somewhat new and surprising to me. Generally I really like to be surprised, and as an aforementioned non-artist person, I can't even imagine giving an artist feedback, particularly if they're an artist of the calibre that I am pursuing a commission from them. So when I get these prelims I reply very simply. Keep in mind also that a prelim can be finished many ways. Unless you’ve had a specific discussion, a prelim could mean nothing in relation to the final product. But I see that many collectors like to commission collaborate pieces, like a cover recreation or a particular 'story'. In that case I think the process can be helpful. Otherwise I tend to prefer to not see a preview. If you've commissioned something vague like 'Silver Surfer' or 'Catwoman' - the artist's image is NEVER going to be the same as what is in your head, so try to leave yourself open to anything that may come. Finally, artist, please be prudent with your airbrush. I have one commission that really suffered from an over zealous airbrushing. Edited October 27, 2019 by dichotomy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...