ComicLink's next Featured Auction Has Started Posting Books 17 17

[Professor K]

https://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAUCTIONS%2FSEARCH.ASP%3FFocusedOnly%3D1%26where%3Dauctions%26title%3Ddetective%2Bcomics%26ItemType%3DCA%23Item_1458113&id=1458113&itemType=1#detail

Edited February 20, 2021 by Professor Chaos

[lou_fine]

15 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

I'm sure there are people seeking and bidding on the CVA and QES books with the intention of getting them resubbed. But I don't think many. I mean whats better a 9.0 CVA or a 9.2 non CVA?

I would imagine that's the whole purpose of the CVA or the QES stickers as it's simply indicating from their point of view that the CGC 9.0 book with the sticker presents better than its assigned grade.  Since potential bidders only get to see a scan of the book and don't have the advantage of seeing the slab or raw book in hand, I assume this is simply trying to provide them with a bit more information in terms of their subjective opinion on the grade assigned to the book in question.  

Personally, I also don't care much for the stickers and probably wouldn't bid that much more for a book that has one on them.  But then again, I am not that much of a grade conscious bidder in the first place as I also wouldn't pay that much more for a book that's one or two grade increments higher, as it's really more about the book to me and whether I want that book in my personal collection, as opposed to that big number on the top left corner.  Clearly the reason why I don't win very many books at auction though.    

Then again, it's really a case of to each, their own as to a lot of bidders, it's all about that number, especially when it comes to the more recent books which are readily available in uber high grade and the grade is the only differentiation between them.  For those bidders, the CVA or QES stickers do possibly matter to them a bit more.  

 

On 2/12/2021 at 3:04 AM, Professor Chaos said:

And besides I don't need no stinking badge to tell me what a nice example for the grade looks like. You probably agree for the most part right? 

 

Professor;

I remember seeing this line from you in a previous post from a few days ago and then I thought of this example here and being almost blind as a bat when it comes to these things , I would love to hear your opinion on this particular book here.  

If all you've got to go is this scan before you decide to bid on this File Copy book or not, would you simply bid based upon the CGC 9.0 grade that's been assigned by CGC, or bid slightly higher even though it's doesn't have one of those stickers on it since you yourself think it's nicer than 9.0, or throw in a lower bid since CGC obviously blew it by overgrading the book based upon what you can see from the scan:    

Edited February 20, 2021 by lou_fine

[Professor K]

Oh boy. First I think I only used that line once, a reference to an old Bogey movie.

Ok now to attempt to answer your question, but I feel I may be walking into a trap. Hope not, but if so that's fine. I wouldn't bid higher because it doesn't have a sticker. It looks pretty good for the grade so I think I'd bid based on that, however with no back cover scan I may not bid at all. I always think if a seller is not showing the back cover they may be either lazy or hiding something.  So final answer I would bid according to the assigned grade because I do trust CGC for the most part. 

I hope I chose the right answer. I really want to win that new car. 

[Dr. Love]

btw HA has changed their policy to include back covers for all books, big and small, except their group lots.  A most welcome and unexpected change from the biggest player in the room.  Now if they could only free up some petty cash to hire somebody to write copy describing the books...unbelievable lack for an outfit that size.  Now that's where CL really shines.  That guy should get an award, he's brilliant.

And as far as "seller is not showing the back cover they may be either lazy or hiding something", that describes the majority of sellers on this board.  I'm not talking on just $5 books either - I've seen mid 5 digit books, mid grade where you really do need to see the back to understand the grade, and no back scan given.  Some think they're being generous when they say back scans on request.  Give me a break.  

 

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

I always think if a seller is not showing the back cover they may be either lazy or hiding something.

I guess I am like you in that I think it's often times easier to see the flaws in a book from the back cover because they don't have all of that artwork and color getting in the way.  Since this was a Heritage auction, here's a copy of the back cover scan for you to peruse at your leisure:  

 

2 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

I hope I chose the right answer. I really want to win that new car. 

Well, by paying only CGC 9.0 prices on this copy here, you are the proud winner of 2 new cars as this File Copy actually turned out to be a CGC 9.6 graded copy:  

To tell you the honest truth though, with my obvious failing eyes, I really can't see that much of a difference between the 2 scans to warrant a 3-step incremental difference in the grading of the book here.    

Well, my bad as this copy here should probably have come with one of those stickers as I clearly must be blind since this CGC 9.6 graded copy has now been removed from the CGC Population Report and the census count for a CGC 9.8 graded copy has now increased by one.  Go figure that as I guess it's kind of hard to tell the difference between a CGC 9.0 graded book from a CGC 9.8 graded copy sometimes by just looking at a scan, as opposed to having the actual slab or raw book in hand, although I personally wouldn't pay that much more for either a sticker or a higher grade while others surely would.    

I just find it kind of sad how much grading has changed from when CGC first opened their doors and it has now reached the point that if you don't play by their rules, you will clearly be punished when it comes to grading on your book. 

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by lou_fine

[Professor K]

2 hours ago, lou_fine said:

I guess I am like you in that I think it's often times easier to see the flaws in a book from the back cover because they don't have all of that artwork and color getting in the way.  Since this was a Heritage auction, here's a copy of the back cover scan for you to peruse at your leisure:  

 

Well, by paying only CGC 9.0 prices on this copy here, you are the proud winner of 2 new cars as this File Copy actually turned out to be a CGC 9.6 graded copy:  

To tell you the honest truth though, with my obvious failing eyes, I really can't see that much of a difference between the 2 scans to warrant a 3-step incremental difference in the grading of the book here.    

Well, my bad as this copy here should probably have come with one of those stickers as I clearly must be blind since this CGC 9.6 graded copy has now been removed from the CGC Population Report and the census count for a CGC 9.8 graded copy has now increased by one.  Go figure that as I guess it's kind of hard to tell the difference between a CGC 9.0 graded book from a CGC 9.8 graded copy sometimes by just looking at a scan, as opposed to having the actual slab or raw book in hand, although I personally wouldn't pay that much more for either a sticker or a higher grade while others surely would.    

I just find it kind of sad how much grading has changed from when CGC first opened their doors and it has now reached the point that if you don't play by their rules, you will clearly be punished when it comes to grading on your book. 

 

Wow. I thought it looked good for a 9.0 but 9.6? 9.2 ok, 9.4 yeah maybe. So you think that actual book might be sitting in a 9.8 holder now? Do you think it went from a 9.6 to a 9.8? There are no 9.6's, 9.4's or 9.2's in the census so it does seem to look like its currently a 9.8. 

I don't know the process of getting a CVA sticker put on a graded book works. I would hope that whoever makes the decision must at least have the book in hand to make that decision and also have access to any graders notes. I would think that book, which is a pretty cool book by the way, would have gotten a CVA sticker as a 9.0. 

My original gripe here about CVA was that I had noticed a few books from the CL Winter auction didn't have the stickers on them a month ago then right before the auction started they did. That indicates to me that ComicLink was involved with getting the stickers put on because they must have had them in hand before they had the stickers in order to take the scans. All this is why I am not a fan of the stickers. Overcomplicates things. A grade is a grade and as a collector I can decide which books look good for the grade or not.

As far as all the examples of books getting bumped up one, two, three grades over time thats another issue. To me if anything it kind of diminishes credibility of the company. But they are the best we have so I'm not complaining. 

[LDarkseid1]

I’ve always perceived CVA and QES as simply implying the book presents nicer for the grade, but it’s still the grade. So I wouldn’t resub one with either sticker personally. Like a particular book graded at 9.2 maybe has flaws that no matter what it’s staying a 9.2, but looks damn good as a 9.2.  CVA and QES more apply from my perception to a spine being more nicely centered, staples more nicely centered, stuff like that.

Edited February 21, 2021 by LDarkseid1

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, LDarkseid1 said:

I’ve always perceived CVA and QES as simply implying the book presents nicer for the grade, but it’s still the grade. So I wouldn’t resub one with either sticker personally. Like a particular book graded at 9.2 maybe has flaws that no matter what it’s staying a 9.2, but looks damn good as a 9.2.  CVA and QES more apply from my perception to a spine being more nicely centered, staples more nicely centered, stuff like that.

Even though it's the weekend and a Saturday night, it's still not a good idea to be overdosing yourself when it comes to the CGC Kool-Aid.  

Especially if you are leaning towards the thinking that grading is an exact science since you seem to believe that the grade is the grade.  From my own personal point of view, grading is really more of an art and an opinion at a particular point in time, and as such, can be greatly influenced by various factors.  

Some of them might possibly be pre-planned and internal due either to the changing of undisclosed grading standards or shifting between loose grading and tight grading time periods.  Others might be external with submittors proactively performing undisclosed activities to maximize the potential of their books.  Then again, some of them might be purely unintentional because grading is really after all, nothing more than an opinion subject to human error and hence, not the exact science we all wish that it can be. 

After all, as we have seen on many occasions in the past whereby books are being pushed up by multiple grade increments such as an Action 1 going from CGC 8.0 up to CGC 9.0, a Bat 1 going from CGC 9.0 up CGC 9.4, or even the above Crackajack Funnies 9 going from a CGC 9.0 up to a CGC 9.8.  Sadly, in this current marketplace reality of ours whereby flippers and CGC label collectors are trying to get the highest grade for their books, I would resort to common sense and tend to think that books that already present nicer than their assigned CGC grades stands a better chance of getting an upgrade when compared to books that simply presents okay or in line with their assigned CGC grade.    

Well, at least that's my bottom line rationale for why some bidders might be willing to bid higher for books with these CVA and/or QES stickers.  

[lou_fine]

On 2/12/2021 at 4:56 AM, Professor Chaos said:

There are some awesome books. A few Detectives from 1937/38 that you hardly ever see. Best auction they've had in a while.

Yes, just took a quick look at my email from CL yesterday and it certainly does look like they have a much better than usual selection of GA books on this particular go round here.    

Looks like this sharp looking copy of 'Tec 38 (save for that fugly looking attenpted erasure on the front cover   ) has already hit $90K, but still hasn't met the reserve yet which makes me kind of curious as to what the Reserve Price has been set at:    

https://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAuctions%2Fdefault.asp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26Focused%3D1%26ItemType%3D0%26f1%3Da.MaxBid%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di.Title%2C%2Bi.IssueNumber%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Da.MaxBid%26ODire3%3DDESC%26pg%3D1%23Item_1458560&id=1458560&itemType=0

[LDarkseid1]

40 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Even though it's the weekend and a Saturday night, it's still not a good idea to be overdosing yourself when it comes to the CGC Kool-Aid.  

Especially if you are leaning towards the thinking that grading is an exact science since you seem to believe that the grade is the grade.  From my own personal point of view, grading is really more of an art and an opinion at a particular point in time, and as such, can be greatly influenced by various factors.  

Some of them might possibly be pre-planned and internal due either to the changing of undisclosed grading standards or shifting between loose grading and tight grading time periods.  Others might be external with submittors proactively performing undisclosed activities to maximize the potential of their books.  Then again, some of them might be purely unintentional because grading is really after all, nothing more than an opinion subject to human error and hence, not the exact science we all wish that it can be. 

After all, as we have seen on many occasions in the past whereby books are being pushed up by multiple grade increments such as an Action 1 going from CGC 8.0 up to CGC 9.0, a Bat 1 going from CGC 9.0 up CGC 9.4, or even the above Crackajack Funnies 9 going from a CGC 9.0 up to a CGC 9.8.  Sadly, in this current marketplace reality of ours whereby flippers and CGC label collectors are trying to get the highest grade for their books, I would resort to common sense and tend to think that books that already present nicer than their assigned CGC grades stands a better chance of getting an upgrade when compared to books that simply presents okay or in line with their assigned CGC grade.    

Well, at least that's my bottom line rationale for why some bidders might be willing to bid higher for books with these CVA and/or QES stickers.  

Yeah I mean I got a CVA on my Batman 232 CGC 9.6. It was never going to get a 9.8 because of some subtle spine and edge wear, but it was one SWEET 9.6. White pages, nicely centered flat spine.

[Gotham Kid]

26 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Looks like this sharp looking copy of 'Tec 38 (save for that fugly looking attenpted erasure on the front cover   ) has already hit $90K, but still hasn't met the reserve yet which makes me kind of curious as to what the Reserve Price has been set at:    

Actually, it was set to 90K with (Reserve not yet met) à la what Heritage does with items not doing as expected. Bidding was

in the 60s and there was no reserve.

So 95K should clear reserve.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Gotham Kid

[lou_fine]

8 minutes ago, LDarkseid1 said:

Yeah I mean I got a CVA on my Batman 232 CGC 9.6. It was never going to get a 9.8 because of some subtle spine and edge wear, but it was one SWEET 9.6. White pages, nicely centered flat spine.

Is this a copy of Bat 232 that you brought and it came already with the CVA or is this a copy that you were planning to sell and they asked if you wanted a CVA sticker applied to it.  

Either way, it definitely sounds like a pretty sweet book to me and certainly one that I would never kick out of my personal collection.     

[lou_fine]

5 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

25 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Looks like this sharp looking copy of 'Tec 38 (save for that fugly looking attenpted erasure on the front cover   ) has already hit $90K, but still hasn't met the reserve yet which makes me kind of curious as to what the Reserve Price has been set at:    

Actually, it was set to 90K with (Reserve not yet met) à la what Heritage does with items not doing as expected. Bidding was

in the 60s and there was no reserve.

So 95K should clear reserve.

Definitely don't really care for it when the auction houses uses this strategy with respect to their lots with a reserved price on them.  

Even more so when there's still 3+ days to go and the bid history indicates the highest bid to be only at $65K.  Figure they could have at least waited until the final last morning to bump it up to the reserve price instead of almost a full 4 days in advance.  

[Gotham Kid]

Don't think I have EVER noticed that Bid History button

Good to know. Do CC or HA have something similar ?

I knew what was going on with the 38 as I was doing a routine check.

 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Gotham Kid

[LDarkseid1]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

Is this a copy of Bat 232 that you brought and it came already with the CVA or is this a copy that you were planning to sell and they asked if you wanted a CVA sticker applied to it.  

Either way, it definitely sounds like a pretty sweet book to me and certainly one that I would never kick out of my personal collection.     

No brought to auction and they did the “do you want CVA thing”. I had previously got it pressed with CCS and graded and it came back the 9.6. Some things you got to sell to pursue more important ventures 😁. But it was a nice book indeed.

[lou_fine]

3 hours ago, Gotham Kid said:

Actually, it was set to 90K with (Reserve not yet met) à la what Heritage does with items not doing as expected. Bidding was

in the 60s and there was no reserve.

So 95K should clear reserve.

Makes me wonder if they will also end up doing this with the Tomb of Dracula 10 since it's still kind of stuck sitting there at $57K for now?  

Looks like it took a big jump from $50K to $70K in the last go round before this move put the wheels in motion to have pull in a few more bids to get it up to $85K:  

https://www.comiclink.com/auctions/history.asp?item=1099710&back=%2Fauctions%2Fitem.asp%3Fid%3D1099710

They might just be hoping this same strategy works for the 'Tec 38 and be able to pull in a few more bids.  

[manofsteel]

Anyone know what the asterisks before the bid amounts mean?

[Professor K]

1 hour ago, manofsteel said:

Anyone know what the asterisks before the bid amounts mean?

I believe that means that is the amount you must bid to satisfy the reserve. If you look at bid history the high bid is actually 8,107 as of this moment.

[manofsteel]

19 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

I believe that means that is the amount you must bid to satisfy the reserve. If you look at bid history the high bid is actually 8,107 as of this moment.

Gotcha. Thanks. 

[lou_fine]

On 2/20/2021 at 5:10 PM, Professor Chaos said:

On 2/20/2021 at 2:02 PM, lou_fine said:

To tell you the honest truth though, with my obvious failing eyes, I really can't see that much of a difference between the 2 scans to warrant a 3-step incremental difference in the grading of the book here.    

Well, my bad as this copy here should probably have come with one of those stickers as I clearly must be blind since this CGC 9.6 graded copy has now been removed from the CGC Population Report and the census count for a CGC 9.8 graded copy has now increased by one.  Go figure that as I guess it's kind of hard to tell the difference between a CGC 9.0 graded book from a CGC 9.8 graded copy sometimes by just looking at a scan, as opposed to having the actual slab or raw book in hand, although I personally wouldn't pay that much more for either a sticker or a higher grade while others surely would.    

I just find it kind of sad how much grading has changed from when CGC first opened their doors and it has now reached the point that if you don't play by their rules, you will clearly be punished when it comes to grading on your book. 

 

Expand  

Wow. I thought it looked good for a 9.0 but 9.6? 9.2 ok, 9.4 yeah maybe. So you think that actual book might be sitting in a 9.8 holder now? Do you think it went from a 9.6 to a 9.8? There are no 9.6's, 9.4's or 9.2's in the census so it does seem to look like its currently a 9.8. 

Like you said, since there is no longer a 9.6 copy listed in the census, I am pretty much 100% sure that it is now residing in a CGC 9.8 holder since the census count for 9.8's had increased by one after the 9.6 had been deleted.  Unlike you though, I tend to look at it from the other angle and if the book is now sitting in a CGC 9.8 holder and we cannot tell any significant differences (if any?) between the CGC 9.0 scan and the CGC 9.6 scan, than just maybe it should never have been in a CGC 9.0 holder in the first place.   

Interesting story about this book personally for me if you don't falling asleep  while reading.  Flash back to the early 90's and I responded to an ad in CBG for some Poughkeepsie File Copy books in which I ended up picking up over a dozen of these books including several of these Crackajack Funnies along with some random Four Color issues of Flash Gordon, Don Winslow, King of the Royal Mounted, and the likes.  Super nice dealer from Michigan who had just recently retired by then and was helping a former long time customer of his dispose of some of his books.  Gave me a great deal at a big big discount off the top of guide prices due to the number of books that I was ordering.  

Not expecting much in terms of grade like your typical CBG ads, I was astounded when I received the books in the mail since they looked minty fresh with strong colors like they had just come off the printing press.  Called the dealer back right away and asked him if he had other copies such as Crackajack Funnies 9 since I knew this was the first appearance of Red Ryder and he responded that he would be receiving more books from this customer and would be sure to give me a call once he got them because he was quite sure that there were more Crackajack's in the collection.  Fast forward about another 6 months or so and I see another ad in the CBG with the Poughkeepsie File copy of Crackajack Funnies 9 in there along with a whole bunch of other file copy issues.  Called the dealer right away who informed me that all of the books were already sold and that he had wanted to call me, but had apparently misplaced my phone number and contact information.    

Fast forward several more years to when CGC first opened their doors and I decided to send in about a dozen of my books, including a couple of these File Copy books, to test this so-called new grading system in advance of the big Greg Manning Auction that was scheduled to take place later that year in 2000.  Was actually quite happy when all of them came back in the grade range of CGC 9.2 to CGC 9.6, with both of the file copies coming in at CGC 9.6 even though the Crackajack that I had sent in was not the best of the bunch from a condition point of view.  As a result, I am not too surprised that the Crackajack Funnies 9 posted above would manage to get a CGC 9.8 grade in the end.  

My own takeaway is that it shows how much their undisclosed grading standards have changed over time.  My bet is that when I got my books graded way back in 2000, they were graded based upon the traditional grading standards that had historically been in place prior to CGC and before Heritage entered onto the scene in 2002.  Sadly, over the years I believe there have been some subtle but significant changes made to their undisclosed grading standards to facilitate the CPR game which is now clearly in full swing.  My bet is that if I send in these books for grading today, they would get no more than a CGC 8.5 or CGC 9.0 because although they look minty fresh and near perfect like some of the few Church books which I have, if you hold them up and bend them at a certain angle to the light, you can see a few barely imperceptible tiny NCB tick marks on the spines of most of them.  

I hate it when they take these barely visible defects and seemingly move them to the top of their grading hit parade while letting more obvious and fugly defects go without much of a drop in grade.  Makes total and complete sense business wise though, since these are clearly low hanging additional revenue generating defects and since CCG is a business after all, and whatever helps CCS and CGC (and HA through their overlapping ownership) will certainly help both their own corporate top and bottom lines.  I guess it also doesn't hurt that you now have the former "King of Pressing" in place as your head grader.   

Bottom-line though, regardless of whether it's in a CGC 9.0 holder, a CGC 9.6 holder, or a CGC 9.8 holder, all I know is that particular File Copy of Crackajack Funnies 9 should actually be locked away raw and ungraded in my personal collection right next to my other file copies.