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Silver Age High Grade???

Started by RickHigh,

33 posts in this topic

RickHigh

RickHigh

Posted
Posted

Just wondering what you guys considered "high grade" on Silver Age books, say, 1965 and below. I've seen some very nice 8.0 books lately, and even a few nice 7.5 books out there have caught my eye. Would these be considered high grade? Where do you draw the line when picking up a "high grade" books for your collection?

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adamstrange

adamstrange

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If you're tth2, it's one grade above whatever exists. poke2.gif

 

Books from the 50s can be quite tough to find, but I think if you poll dealers and ask what they think collectors mean when they ask "Do you have any high grade 50s comics?", it'll be VF+ and better. Some might even go higher. Of course the usual response from a dealer to this kind of query is "No."

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tth2

tth2

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HIGH GRADE = 8.5+

 

MID GRADE = 4.5 to 8.0

 

LOW GRADE = Less than 4.5

 

rules to live by...go in peace my son

I'm with Eric, I don't think HG is a sliding scale that depends on availability.

 

In my opinion, the historic standard for HG has been 8.5/VF+ or higher. It's an aesthetic standard, not based on availability or desirability. Whether you can find copies in "HG" from any particular era, and whether you are willing to lower your standards and purchase a non-HG book because no HG copies are available, are different issues entirely. Just because you can't find a minty fresh copy of All-American 16 doesn't mean that a ragged out 3.0 copy is HG. It might be desirable, because you can't find a better copy, but it's still not HG.

 

Conversely, you can find a zillion Spawn #1s in 8.5 and above, and even though nobody wants an 8.5 copy, it doesn't mean it's not HG. It's just that people want an even higher grade.

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Jayman

Jayman

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Posted
HIGH GRADE = 8.5+

 

MID GRADE = 4.5 to 8.0

 

LOW GRADE = Less than 4.5

 

rules to live by...go in peace my son

I'm with Eric, I don't think HG is a sliding scale that depends on availability.

 

In my opinion, the historic standard for HG has been 8.5/VF+ or higher. It's an aesthetic standard, not based on availability or desirability. Whether you can find copies in "HG" from any particular era, and whether you are willing to lower your standards and purchase a non-HG book because no HG copies are available, are different issues entirely. Just because you can't find a minty fresh copy of All-American 16 doesn't mean that a ragged out 3.0 copy is HG. It might be desirable, because you can't find a better copy, but it's still not HG.

 

Conversely, you can find a zillion Spawn #1s in 8.5 and above, and even though nobody wants an 8.5 copy, it doesn't mean it's not HG. It's just that people want an even higher grade.

 

Truer words cannot be spoken! thumbsup2.gif

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burntboy

burntboy

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Posted
HIGH GRADE = 8.5+

 

MID GRADE = 4.5 to 8.0

 

LOW GRADE = Less than 4.5

 

rules to live by...go in peace my son

I'm with Eric, I don't think HG is a sliding scale that depends on availability.

 

In my opinion, the historic standard for HG has been 8.5/VF+ or higher. It's an aesthetic standard, not based on availability or desirability. Whether you can find copies in "HG" from any particular era, and whether you are willing to lower your standards and purchase a non-HG book because no HG copies are available, are different issues entirely. Just because you can't find a minty fresh copy of All-American 16 doesn't mean that a ragged out 3.0 copy is HG. It might be desirable, because you can't find a better copy, but it's still not HG.

 

Conversely, you can find a zillion Spawn #1s in 8.5 and above, and even though nobody wants an 8.5 copy, it doesn't mean it's not HG. It's just that people want an even higher grade.

 

well-stated Tim................

 

i think i agree with this scale except that i'd include 8.0 in HG. that leaves about an even number of grades in all three categories.

 

it's kind of tough to get away from the influence of availability, however. i would suspect that some of Adam's mid 50's DC's could grade out by CGC as 8.0's. ( no knock on the books at all - but we know what CGC does to DC's). i would further opine that they are looking pretty High Grade to the majority of board members, many of whom have never laid eyes on them before.................so we'll never have a definitive answer to this question.

 

kinda like; what are CGC's grading standards, what constitutes a Pedigree, is pro pressing resto, what book started the Silver Age, what's the most important SA book, are old label books undergraded, what's "way more", etc................... devil.gif

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sfilosa

sfilosa

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While you say there shouldn't be a sliding scale, when grading a book, everyone has different standards. Is a structurally 9.0 Avengers #4, with awful YELLOWING, High Grade. Not to me. Yet, a bright WHITE copy with just a touch of spine stress and a few non-color breaking creases on the white area (very hard to see), in 8.0 would be. And don't forget Page Quality. I would much rather have a nice 8.0 with White Pages then a Light Tan to Off-White 8.5 (and pay more for the 8.0).

 

So to me, there is a little more to the HIGH GRADE definition then straight CGC numerical grades.

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adamstrange

adamstrange

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it's kind of tough to get away from the influence of availability, however. i would suspect that some of Adam's mid 50's DC's could grade out by CGC as 8.0's. ( no knock on the books at all - but we know what CGC does to DC's). i would further opine that they are looking pretty High Grade to the majority of board members, many of whom have never laid eyes on them before.................so we'll never have a definitive answer to this question.

 

I would say that I've posted a reasonable number of VFs and probably even some F/VFs, though the majority are higher grades. A structural VF with other exceptional qualities can be a very nice book to have, though a 9.4 is even cooler! One of the things that's tough about grading 50s books is that they suffer from production issues that are often considered to be post-production defects. They were generally not printed as squeaky clean as the 60s. Or, in the case of the 40s comics, the production defects that do occur are well understood and counted for in the grade.

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adamstrange

adamstrange

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Posted
Whenever I refer to my 8.0 SA keys (ASM #1, X-Men #1, etc.), I always say semi-HG. I don't want to call them mid grade since they're not, but HG would be too much of a stretch.

 

I would refer to them as "my uber-cool, super-special-to-the-max" copies, but that's me.

 

gossip.gif They sound like really nice books!

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tth2

tth2

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While you say there shouldn't be a sliding scale, when grading a book, everyone has different standards. Is a structurally 9.0 Avengers #4, with awful YELLOWING, High Grade. Not to me. Yet, a bright WHITE copy with just a touch of spine stress and a few non-color breaking creases on the white area (very hard to see), in 8.0 would be. And don't forget Page Quality. I would much rather have a nice 8.0 with White Pages then a Light Tan to Off-White 8.5 (and pay more for the 8.0).

 

So to me, there is a little more to the HIGH GRADE definition then straight CGC numerical grades.

The CGC numerical grade, or the old-fashioned VF, NM grade, which is based on structure, is the baseline. In other words, a structurally 7.5 with blinding gloss and bright white pages still wouldn't qualify as HG, in my opinion. Perhaps a structurally 8.5 book with horrible appearance and poor page quality should not qualify as HG, even though structurally it meets the minimum requirement. The point is that if it weren't structurally an 8.5, it would never even be up for consideration.

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sfilosa

sfilosa

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The CGC numerical grade, or the old-fashioned VF, NM grade, which is based on structure, is the baseline. In other words, a structurally 7.5 with blinding gloss and bright white pages still wouldn't qualify as HG, in my opinion. Perhaps a structurally 8.5 book with horrible appearance and poor page quality should not qualify as HG, even though structurally it meets the minimum requirement. The point is that if it weren't structurally an 8.5, it would never even be up for consideration.

 

I'm not saying I don't draw a line what I collected (i.e. SA Keys 8.0 or better). What I'm saying is that a CGC 7.5 book, that looks PERFECT except it has a very long non-color breaking crease, will APPEAR HIGH GRADE. And PRIOR to CGC it would have graded out MUCH HIGHER (maybe even 9.4) by most collectors and dealers.

 

And there were plenty of dealers that thought every pedigree book was VF/NM or better, regardless of the structural flaws because the books PRESERVATION was SUPERIOR to other books that had less structural flaws.

 

Example:

 

While both of these books qualify as HG by most people's standards, I'm not sure I would qualify the 9.2 as HG (because of the yellowing and page quality). And if both books were not certified, I would easily pay more money for the 9.0 then the 9.2.

 

Avengers #4 CGC 9.0

 

Avengers #4 CGC 9.2 (WM)

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tth2

tth2

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That`s one of the first WM books that I`ve seen with C-OW pages. However, I have to say the yellowing of the WM copy is pretty par for the course for most white cover SA Marvels. I doubt I would have even considered it to be yellowed. The 9.0 copy is so white I almost have to wonder if it`s a function of the scan. If it`s not, it`s one of the whitest copies I`ve ever seen.

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sfilosa

sfilosa

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That`s one of the first WM books that I`ve seen with C-OW pages. However, I have to say the yellowing of the WM copy is pretty par for the course for most white cover SA Marvels. I doubt I would have even considered it to be yellowed. The 9.0 copy is so white I almost have to wonder if it`s a function of the scan. If it`s not, it`s one of the whitest copies I`ve ever seen

 

I have the Boston Avengers #4 CGC 9.0 and it's also very White, so I don't think it's the scan.

 

And I can honestly say that I would rather have my Boston Avengers #4 in CGC 9.0 then the White Mountain CGC 9.2 or even the Curator CGC 9.2 (that just sold on Heritage).

 

Avengers #4 CGC 9.2 Curator

 

My CGC 9.0 looks better regardless of the grade.

 

Plus, if CGC gives a book with a lot of Marvel Chipping a CGC 9.0, is it HG? Not to me.

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