Bart Allen Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 (edited) I'm curious about this one, as I just don't know, as well as being unsure whether I've missed an issue - more so that CGC hasn't acknowledged it, or at least from what I'm aware of ~ Secret Wars #1 Appears as an unseen being speaking to the various heroes and villains. Spoiler Secret Wars II #1 His silhouette appears on the front cover, and his shadowy appearance is seen by Molecule Man a few pages on. Spoiler Secret Wars II #2 He appears on the front cover with energy emitting about him, and first appears in human form. Spoiler Secret Wars II #3 He takes a permanent form, for which he remained for his entirely: that of black hair, etc. Spoiler Unless I'm mistaken in some form? All comments are welcomed ~ Edited April 27, 2020 by Bart Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comixroc Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 I’ve always wondered about this as well.🤔 I’ve never seen CGC make a note about his first appearance. I’ve always assumed it was SW #1... Bart Allen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Allen Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Comixroc said: I’ve always wondered about this as well.🤔 I’ve never seen CGC make a note about his first appearance. I’ve always assumed it was SW #1... I'm curious too - just need a second opinion Personally, I'm analysing this as how I would with CGC's criterion of both Jessica Cruz and Mister Mind: Secret Wars #1 Should 100% be classified as "1st appearance (voice) of Beyonder.", similar to how Captain Marvel Adventures #22 is classified as "1st appearance (voice) of Mister Mind." Secret Wars II #1 Should be classified as "1st appearance of Beyonder in one-panel cameo (face not revealed).", as how CGC describes Green Lantern #20 as: "1st appearance of Jessica Cruz in one-panel cameo (face not revealed)." Secret Wars II #2 Should be noted as "1st full appearance of Beyonder". Edited April 24, 2020 by Bart Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lazyboy Posted April 24, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 24, 2020 The eventual creation of a humanoid body doesn't define the Beyonder. The Beyonder's first appearance is MSHSW #1. Period. Jasonmorris1000000, GeeksAreMyPeeps, Bart Allen and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comixroc Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 4 hours ago, Bart Allen said: I'm curious too - just need a second opinion Personally, I'm analysing this as how I would with CGC's criterion of both Jessica Cruz and Mister Mind: Secret Wars #1 Should 100% be classified as "1st appearance (voice) of Beyonder.", similar to how Captain Marvel Adventures #22 is classified as "1st appearance (voice) of Mister Mind." Secret Wars II #1 Should be classified as "1st appearance of Beyonder in one-panel cameo (face not revealed).", as how CGC describes Green Lantern #20 as: "1st appearance of Jessica Cruz in one-panel cameo (face not revealed)." Secret Wars II #2 Should be noted as "1st full appearance of Beyonder". Well said. I agree. Let’s see what the opinions of our fellow members are. Bart Allen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Allen Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lazyboy said: The eventual creation of a humanoid body doesn't define the Beyonder. The Beyonder's first appearance is MSHSW #1. Period. Perhaps, though I could use the Anti-Monitor as an example, but I'll use Venom, though, as you could argue the eventual creation of a vessel doesn't define Venom: Amazing Spider-Man #252 1st appearance of black costume. Amazing Spider-Man #299 Venom cameo. Amazing Spider-Man #300 Origin & first full appearance of Venom. 1 hour ago, Comixroc said: Well said. I agree. Let’s see what the opinions of our fellow members are. I'm waiting with bated breath Edited April 24, 2020 by Bart Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comixroc Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Lazyboy said: The eventual creation of a humanoid body doesn't define the Beyonder. The Beyonder's first appearance is MSHSW #1. Period. I appreciate your opinion. And I do agree it should be SW 1. However, I do believe there is a little room for more detail. I would argue his humanoid form could be listed as “first appearance as human”. Bart Allen, Morganmi and AGGIEZ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Allen Posted April 24, 2020 Author Share Posted April 24, 2020 Just now, Comixroc said: I appreciate your opinion. And I do agree it should be SW 1. However, I do believe there is a little room for more detail. I would argue his humanoid form could be listed as “first appearance as human”. That's why I altered the title just for some specificity in conjunction to the OP - but my point is that that would then discredit what CGC have done with the initial Venom appearances (even though CGC is subject to change lol) ~ Comixroc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Bart Allen said: Perhaps, though I could use the Anti-Monitor as an example, but I'll use Venom I guess the Anti-Monitor is slightly comparable, but the symbiotes are definitely physical beings which bond with other physical beings. The Beyonder was literally his own dimension, to which he abducted everyone for the Secret Wars. Bart Allen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Comixroc said: I would argue his humanoid form could be listed as “first appearance as human”. Then what? Garfield Logan's "first appearance as tiger" or Mystique's "first appearance as Wolverine" or... The Beyonder knew so little about physical, human existence that poor Spidey had to explain to him that he needed to use the bathroom and what to do in there! Stronguy, djzombi and Bart Allen 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comixroc Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 6 minutes ago, Lazyboy said: Then what? Garfield Logan's "first appearance as tiger" or Mystique's "first appearance as Wolverine" or... The Beyonder knew so little about physical, human existence that poor Spidey had to explain to him that he needed to use the bathroom and what to do in there! Yes, I think noting more specifics, like those you mentioned above, would be cool. Just my opinion, though. Bart Allen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comixroc Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 17 minutes ago, Lazyboy said: Then what? Garfield Logan's "first appearance as tiger" or Mystique's "first appearance as Wolverine" or... The Beyonder knew so little about physical, human existence that poor Spidey had to explain to him that he needed to use the bathroom and what to do in there! Also, when specific changes to a character are not included on the CGC label, it feels like something is missing. Thor 339 does not mention “first appearance of Stormbreaker”. That is a major omission. Bart Allen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37141 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 So which one should be the "official" first appearance (collectors choice to invest in)? Like the first appearance of Wolverine, Hulk 180 (Cameo but still first appearance) or 181 first full appearance... it's confusing (to me at least). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morganmi Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 On 10/22/2020 at 3:23 PM, 37141 said: So which one should be the "official" first appearance (collectors choice to invest in)? Like the first appearance of Wolverine, Hulk 180 (Cameo but still first appearance) or 181 first full appearance... it's confusing (to me at least). It depends, In the case of HUlk 180 and 181 there is the cameo appearance in 180 vs 1st Full appearance plus 1st cover appearance in 181. Both important comics but 181 seems to be the clear fan favorite and more substantial of both. Then you have things like ASM 238 and 239 where you have what probably should be considered a 1st cameo app. of Hobgoblin in 238 but you have a great 1st cover appearance also so that one becomes the favorite. Then you have cases like Conan 23 and 24 where it was incorrectly cited for many many years that 23 was a cameo which it wasn't, Red Sonja appears in most of the book and 24 was cited as 1st appearance but in actuality its just the first cover appearance, which caused the value to flip flop on those 2 books once the word got out. So you are correct and it can be very confusing, my advice is to read the books before making the big investment and decide for yourself which is the more important. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeksAreMyPeeps Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 On 4/24/2020 at 3:01 PM, Bart Allen said: Perhaps, though I could use the Anti-Monitor as an example, but I'll use Venom, though, as you could argue the eventual creation of a vessel doesn't define Venom: Amazing Spider-Man #252 1st appearance of black costume. Amazing Spider-Man #299 Venom cameo. Amazing Spider-Man #300 Origin & first full appearance of Venom. I'm waiting with bated breath I'm with Lazyboy, since the Beyonder is an entity that can take multiple forms, That SW 1 is the book. Venom is a combination of a symbiote and a host, so ASM 300 is the first full appearance. But 298 is the first cameo, and 299 is the second cameo (but full body revealed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeksAreMyPeeps Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 On 4/24/2020 at 7:52 PM, Lazyboy said: Then what? Garfield Logan's "first appearance as tiger" or Mystique's "first appearance as Wolverine" or... The Beyonder knew so little about physical, human existence that poor Spidey had to explain to him that he needed to use the bathroom and what to do in there! Or first Copycat as Domino? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygogolak Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 So words on a page define a characters 1st appearance now? And I thought people had a hard enough time with a hand / fist. MAR1979 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GeeksAreMyPeeps Posted October 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 26, 2020 1 hour ago, ygogolak said: So words on a page define a characters 1st appearance now? And I thought people had a hard enough time with a hand / fist. But it's not just words on a page. The Beyonder is an entity without a fixed physical form. That burst of light is the visual depiction of the Beyonder at that time. Lazyboy, MR SigS, The_Investor and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygogolak Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 5 hours ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said: But it's not just words on a page. The Beyonder is an entity without a fixed physical form. That burst of light is the visual depiction of the Beyonder at that time. OK, understandable in theory. Won't hold the market value though based on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygogolak Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 I see some people are confused. We all know that Web of Spider-Man #18 is the first appearance of Venom and also holds the most hobby value of presumed 1st's. Correct? whetteon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
