Lightning55 Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 2 hours ago, James J Johnson said: Very odd that the top and/or top and bottom of a wrap would be trimmed. That's usually never the case unless it's a married page and whoever assembled it used the same or one of the staple holes on the married pages and then had to square up the resultant overhang of the married pages. This sounds like the most plausible explanation - the married page theory. But if that is likely the case, shouldn't it say specifically "married pages"?. I can see trimming the pages if they are not lining up properly, to make the comic look more legit, but it should be disclosed and/or identified as such. A lot of collectors want the comic to be in original condition, not altered, and married would certainly fall into that category. Some won't care, but all should be informed. Cherubim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherubim Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 3 hours ago, Lightning55 said: I hardly think CGC is giving any preference due to a $5 label purchase. Not a factor. I don't like the treatment of the grading on this comic for the reason you bring up. Restoration is usually defined as something added or removed to approve appearance. Trimming of ANYTHING meets that criteria. Having supposedly been given a restoration check, this comic should not have passed, given that the label states that they are aware of the restoration. Trimming is not a condition issue, as a torn page might be. It is a man made attempt to remove unsightly chipping, probably. This should be a Purple Label Of Death. Is this a comic you purchased? Was the fact that the label said "trimming" disclosed to you? Did you have photos to review before purchasing? Or is one you sent in, not knowing it was trimmed, and would have preferred it came back with the PLOD? It’s not a comic I purchased. A surprised collector posted this in another group and wanted the group’s take. Thought I’d take it to the CGC forums as you guys are much more knowledgeable on this stuff. Wanted to know if this was a one off or a new practice. I do comic related work that has me look at a LOT of graded CGC books. Trimming has always been purple label so I was totally surprised to see this blue label and was wondering if it was a signal of them changing a practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherubim Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 2 hours ago, littledoom said: Someone buying this (especially since it ain't cheap) will read the label and take into considering the trimming.. regardless of the color The problem is that because this has never been standard CGC practice, it will take many off guard and cause a lot of overpayment. It will also mess with the companies that capture graded book sales as a blue label has an accepted meaning and now there are caveats to that meaning. to be fair, there are already some caveats to blue label - tape and small amounts of glue very commonly get blue label instead of restored or conserved labels; but trimming, to my knowledge, has not commonly been allowed on a blue label book. littledoom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherubim Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 1 hour ago, spreads said: How many ebay auctions clearly list what's on the label? How many buyers would see that if it wasn't disclosed? Yup - exactly. Is comic link and comic connect and heritage going to clearly disclose these trim notes when they auction off these blue label trimmed books? We know most eBay listing titles won’t include that there’s trimming on this blue label. Now true, people SHOULD look at the book closely before buying, but then why not have all blue and just label the resto, qualification, conservation? It’s because the label type clearly calls out the type of book you’re buying. frankly, I think all tape and glue should get resto purple label and not blue, but that might just be me. spreads 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myowncollector Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Sensei Ryan said: What 'them' are you referring to, CGC graders or the potential buyers of a comic? Whoever. I am all for full disclosure but if something was done so well that it can't be detected then I don't see how it matters. Nothing can be done about it. Restored is too expensive, more people need to hate it. Prices seem to keep climbing up on it. Percentage off is getting smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherubim Posted May 24, 2020 Author Share Posted May 24, 2020 1 hour ago, William-James88 said: This isn't a new normal, it's a glitch in CGC's system and they are aware of it. It happens when someone picks the special labels which only come in blue (or yellow with a signature). Some have even been capitalizing on it to legitimize restoration. CGC asks that you contact them and they will rectify it. Thanks for the clarification, but it definitely needs to be fixed ASAP. I mean their QC must be absolute if you let a book like this get out the door. And yeah right CGC, like a person is actually going to contact you so they can turn the blue label into a much less desired purple. Almost no one will do that. The Lions Den and spreads 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Teacher Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 23 minutes ago, Cherubim said: frankly, I think all tape and glue should get resto purple label and not blue, but that might just be me. Trust me, glue can get you a purple label, but it's inconsistent. I have a Showcase #22 CGC 4.5, with the notation, "Small amount of glue on cover." But I also have a Fantastic Four #6 CGC 3.5 (C-1) with a purple label and the same notation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightning55 Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 I have a CGC Venom: Lethal Protector 1 Gold that was signed, but not witnessed. It was supposed to get a green label, showing as Qualified in the registry, but they put the blue label on it by mistake. You'd think that was good, but it's an awkward situation. Always draws a raised eyebrow. Maybe I can sell it as an Error copy, CGC's error. littledoom and Yorick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littledoom Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Cherubim said: Yup - exactly. Is comic link and comic connect and heritage going to clearly disclose these trim notes when they auction off these blue label trimmed books? We know most eBay listing titles won’t include that there’s trimming on this blue label. Now true, people SHOULD look at the book closely before buying, but then why not have all blue and just label the resto, qualification, conservation? It’s because the label type clearly calls out the type of book you’re buying. frankly, I think all tape and glue should get resto purple label and not blue, but that might just be me. EBay auction results should always be taken with a grain of salt.. just the past two auctions I won via second chance (so I didn't actually sell for the sold price) .. another I had to paypal more money for a guy who couldn't afford to send the comics via "free shipping" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James J Johnson Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, William-James88 said: Honestly, I've never understood trimming as a whole. I mean, I know what it is, but I fail to see what someone's end goal is when trimed comics usually have other defects that would lower the grade were it untrimmed anyway. The end goal is to make a sharp edge and square corners. On the top and bottom, the overhang of the cover, where unsupported by the pages, makes it susceptible to tears and other damage that some looking to effect a shortcut to cosmetically effect improvement will just trim it off instead of restoring it in a positive archival manner. On the right edge, chips and chads (pre-chips, or non-detached chips) are the usual target that again, instead of treating professionally, but shoring up pre-chips and replacing chips archivally, they take the 3 second approach, line up a straight edge and amputate the whole edge, may they cut off their fingers in the process! Edited May 24, 2020 by James J Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony S Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 While a mistake by CGC on the label may well be the most likely answer, there might be another. The trimming was only on an interior pages. It might be "Siamese" pages. Pages that did not get cut correctly at the printer and so pages are still joined together. As a kid you would purchase a comic and every once in a while find a couple of pages still joined along the edge. The only way to read the book was to tear or cut the pages apart. This type of "trimming" isn't the same thing as using a razor and trying to improve the appearance of the comic by getting rid of chips and wear along the edge. The pages were stuck together and you wanted to read the comic. There are also a few underground books where the people that produced the books took them home and trimmed them for one reason or another. Those books get blue labels with a notation that it was trimmed. So maybe not a mistake, but the way CGC views Siamese pages that have been cut apart? vheflin, steveinthecity and The Lions Den 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aman619 Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 could the trimming have been done because the book was manufactured with that extra triangle of folded paper attached? Its unsightly and someone might have decided that since the extra paper should never have been there in the first place, so since he wouldn't be ADDING a missing piece, that it would be kosher to reduce the page to same size as the rest of the pages? Kinda finishing the job they messed up at the printer? To me that would be the least offensive type of trimming. however since CGC has said this was a error and should have been purple label, Im just guessing what the reason for the trimming was/ Tony S 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aman619 Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Tony has a similar explanation... Tony S 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William-James88 Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Tony S said: While a mistake by CGC on the label may well be the most likely answer, there might be another. The trimming was only on an interior pages. It might be "Siamese" pages. Pages that did not get cut correctly at the printer and so pages are still joined together. As a kid you would purchase a comic and every once in a while find a couple of pages still joined along the edge. The only way to read the book was to tear or cut the pages apart. This type of "trimming" isn't the same thing as using a razor and trying to improve the appearance of the comic by getting rid of chips and wear along the edge. The pages were stuck together and you wanted to read the comic. There are also a few underground books where the people that produced the books took them home and trimmed them for one reason or another. Those books get blue labels with a notation that it was trimmed. So maybe not a mistake, but the way CGC views Siamese pages that have been cut apart? CGC actually came onto the boards to discuss this issue specifically, which only happened when someone chose those special labels. So I have no doubt that's the issue. Can't find the message from Debbie, if anyone remembers where that was please post it. Tony S 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spreads Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 22 hours ago, Lightning55 said: I have a CGC Venom: Lethal Protector 1 Gold that was signed, but not witnessed. It was supposed to get a green label, showing as Qualified in the registry, but they put the blue label on it by mistake. You'd think that was good, but it's an awkward situation. Always draws a raised eyebrow. Maybe I can sell it as an Error copy, CGC's error. LOL And another side caveat, if I saw you selling this book my first gut instinct is that you're a crook or trying to slip a fast one by a buyer - even if that is clearly not your intention! Just holding a CGC error book paints you in a bad light, like somehow the owner is responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 On 5/23/2020 at 9:05 PM, comicginger1789 said: A CGC error. Should be purple label. The type of trimming intrigues me though...why trim just those pages?? Hmmm Believe it or not, this isn't as uncommon as you may think. Those pages likely stuck out further than the rest and someone trimmed them in an effort to improve the overall appearance of the book... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicginger1789 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 11 minutes ago, The Lions Den said: Believe it or not, this isn't as uncommon as you may think. Those pages likely stuck out further than the rest and someone trimmed them in an effort to improve the overall appearance of the book... That makes sense, as I have seen that type of manufacturing error before. Still.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 On 5/23/2020 at 10:13 PM, Cherubim said: It’s not a comic I purchased. A surprised collector posted this in another group and wanted the group’s take. Thought I’d take it to the CGC forums as you guys are much more knowledgeable on this stuff. Wanted to know if this was a one off or a new practice. I do comic related work that has me look at a LOT of graded CGC books. Trimming has always been purple label so I was totally surprised to see this blue label and was wondering if it was a signal of them changing a practice. This was an oversight that CGC didn't anticipate when they introduced the special labels. There are a number of these books floating around, all special Marvel label books that should have received a purple label. And most folks wouldn't be inclined to return their blue label books to receive a PLOD. So apparently your friend has a choice to make... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said: That makes sense, as I have seen that type of manufacturing error before. Still.... And the "siamese pages" phenomenon is also a consideration... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...