The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 16 16

[OtherEric]

On 6/8/2022 at 12:35 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

The Yanks here should be well and truly bamboozled by now.

More befuddled than bamboozled, I should think.  But delighted as well, this stuff is fun.

[Albert Tatlock]

So all the Hirams and Abners over there are in blissful ignorance.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 6/8/2022 at 8:46 PM, themagicrobot said:

 

Can Peter Skellern be far off....

[Get Marwood & I]

On 6/8/2022 at 8:46 PM, themagicrobot said:

 

Can Peter Skellern be far off....

[Get Marwood & I]

Twice 

[Albert Tatlock]

On 6/8/2022 at 8:53 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Can Peter Skellern be far off.

My mate Seth says he's supping ale in the Woolpack at this moment.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 6/8/2022 at 8:56 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

My mate Seth says he's supping ale in the Woolpack at this moment.

Old frothy whiskers? 

Bring back The Cedar Tree, that's what I say. 

[Kevin.J]

Hello chaps, I am afraid to say, I really do not understand any of these weird dialects, we all speak gentle and polite queens English up here in Geordieland 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 6/8/2022 at 9:45 PM, Kevin.J said:

Hello chaps, I am afraid to say, I really do not understand any of these weird dialects, we all speak gentle and polite queens English up here in Geordieland 

Why aye Kev 

[OtherEric]

The U.S. and the UK: two  countries separated by their common language.

[Malacoda]

On 6/8/2022 at 8:20 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

@Malacoda

Rich! Rich! 

The threads gone Northern!

Post a massive hiatus theory, QUICK!

Nae Bother.  Av gorra gerrit straight the way. 

Howay.  That's not how I talk propa. 

 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 6/9/2022 at 2:23 AM, Malacoda said:

Nae Bother.  Av gorra gerrit straight the way. 

Howay.  That's not how I talk propa. 

 

 

 

[Malacoda]

On 6/6/2022 at 8:17 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

If we believe that each consecutive stamp represents one shipment, likely to be monthly, then that's around 30 months of activity tabled there (the first cycle's 1-5 stamps weren't used it seems, they came in at stamp 6. This makes sense, as the stamps were already in use for other publications (I have many examples) so the DC comics likely slotted into an existing stamping arrangement). 

Hmmmmmm…

I tried to substantiate this before. It seemed to me that if the system was in place before the comics were being imported, then it might be more or less impossible to figure out what the system is from the comics (because it wasn't designed for them, therefore impossible to infer from them....like trying to work out why a bra isn't a perfect fit on a transvestite..... Jesus. How is that my go-to example?  OK, never mind that now.....).  

To that end I looked at several dozen T&P publications from the 50's and couldn't find anything to replicate the ink stamp numbers. Now, obviously, these were printed in the UK so printed with sterling prices, but if the ink stamp numbering is somehow essential to distribution and it predates the comics, why isn't it on any of these? 

 And also, even though I only looked at a few dozen out of presumably a couple of thousand, if it was an integral part of the distribution process, how were so many publications distributed without it?

I concluded that the numbering was specific to the comics.

But you have many examples to the contrary.  Please tell more.  I think this could be the key or if not will at least eliminate a few possibilities.

 

[themagicrobot]

I know you'd need multiple issues to see a trend but isn't it odd that the Monsieur magazine has a number 4 and the My Greatest Adventure comic has a number 9. There is quite a gap there when both have September 1960 cover dates. Do all September comics have number 9s. Can we find any August or October magazines to see what numbers they display. Finding Magazines from earlier in 1959 might help too. I'm not sure the numbers indicate when they should be removed from sale but they could simply indicate what was received in any particular batch. Also I think things might have happened 4 weekly (or weekly) rather than monthly. Many DC comics were 8 or 9 times a year which always complicates things.

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by themagicrobot

[Get Marwood & I]

On 6/9/2022 at 4:51 PM, Malacoda said:

Hmmmmmm…

I tried to substantiate this before. It seemed to me that if the system was in place before the comics were being imported, then it might be more or less impossible to figure out what the system is from the comics (because it wasn't designed for them, therefore impossible to infer from them....like trying to work out why a bra isn't a perfect fit on a transvestite..... Jesus. How is that my go-to example?  OK, never mind that now.....).  

To that end I looked at several dozen T&P publications from the 50's and couldn't find anything to replicate the ink stamp numbers. Now, obviously, these were printed in the UK so printed with sterling prices, but if the ink stamp numbering is somehow essential to distribution and it predates the comics, why isn't it on any of these? 

 And also, even though I only looked at a few dozen out of presumably a couple of thousand, if it was an integral part of the distribution process, how were so many publications distributed without it?

I concluded that the numbering was specific to the comics.

But you have many examples to the contrary.  Please tell more.  I think this could be the key or if not will at least eliminate a few possibilities.

 

Just a flying visit Rich, and a quick dumping of thoughts.

My take is that the numbered stamp is applicable to all cents priced US imported publications, not just comics. Comics, magazines, whatever. If it was imported from the US in cents, and therefore needed a UK price, in came the price stamp, with a number. It's not comic specific. We can see the stamps on a whole variety of publications and magazines. The pricing need is obvious, but we've proven the additional stamp number on it meant something, as T&P retained it when the updated / branded their stamps.

This thread has been very DC-centric. There are other comic publishers to consider. The best number tracking table would include the numbering for them all, not just DC. But if we all agree that certain DC books were the first to arrive in the UK, then why are they stamped 8s and 9s and not 1? If the numbered stamp system was specific to comics, then why isn't stamp #1 the first use for all those 'first to arrive in the UK' DC books?

The 1-9, to me, has a purpose. That purpose translates to anything imported on an unstructured cents priced basis. That's what the evidence is telling me. 

Over the weekend I'll try to find all the magazines I saved with T&P stamps on and some of the Charlton examples that appear to predate DC. They're on a flash drive now. There's no point looking at home grown T&P publications for the 50s as they are already in UK prices and need no stamp. No stamp - no number.

For comics, US imported UKPVs (Marvel, Charlton, Archie, Dell) do not have stamps and therefore numbers. So numbers aren't needed for distribution there, and they managed it without them. So the numbers relate to imported cents publications only. Logically, it has something to do with accounting. T&P ordered UKPVs to a set price, volume and frequency. They were printed and paid to order. And no stamp numbers were needed. T&P ordered cents books on an unstructured "we'll take your returns cheap" basis. And stamp numbers were needed.

That's the key, I think. The difference in how they were solicited and, therefore, accounted for. Two sets of comics coming in. Structured UKPVs and unstructured cents returns. For the latter group, T&P needed to price them. That's obvious. But they clearly also needed to number arrivals 1-9. The reason for that, remains, less obvious.

More over the weekend as we're on the road tomorrow 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 6/9/2022 at 7:13 PM, themagicrobot said:

they could simply indicate what was received in any particular batch.

That's it, for me. That simple. The numbers relate to each arrival. If the stamp number wasn't a prerequisite for onward distribution, as imported UKPVs - and all home grown publications - seem to prove, then all that is left is internal accounting. This comic/magazine arrived in this batch, and this volume (when added up). Exactly how that helped anyone remains a bit of a mystery, but I can imagine them receiving a shipment of unsold cents priced US publications, stamping them all with the next calendar sequential stamp (potentially in different locations and with different stamp prices), counting the overall stamp number volume and then, say, recording 802,367 against stamp 4 in their records. Something like that.

[Albert Tatlock]

On 6/9/2022 at 7:42 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

then, say, recording 802,367 against stamp 4 in their records. Something like that

But they could have counted them, and probably already had, without stamping them.

[Albert Tatlock]

On 6/9/2022 at 7:13 PM, themagicrobot said:

I know you'd need multiple issues to see a trend but isn't it odd that the Monsieur magazine has a number 4 and the My Greatest Adventure comic has a number 9. There is quite a gap there when both have September 1960 cover dates. Do all September comics have number 9s.

The cover date does not necessarily correspond to the date of arriving in the UK.

I think we saw some time ago that Famous Monsters was many months behind the DCs in the distribution, arriving here possibly 9 months after the US customer first had the chance to buy it..

[Malacoda]

On 6/9/2022 at 9:53 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

But they could have counted them, and probably already had, without stamping them.

I suspect that the numbering system was serving 2 different purposes. 

But, to your point, what the Hell was going on with the Marvels from April 69 to July 71, where nearly every comic had both unstamped, unnumbered PV's and stamped numbered cents issues going out at the same time. What system makes sense of that?  

[Redshade]

Pardon my repetition but if I may reiterate an oft told experience of mine.

In the mid 60s we had a standing order with our newsagent. Our daily newspapers, weekly magazines and UK comics arrived without having to be reordered each time.

I can distinctly remember asking our local newsagent (Mr Hartley of Hartley and Sons Newsagents and Tobacconists) why the same method could not be used to have my favourite US comics delivered.

I remember being told that I couldn't order specific titles because he couldn't do so from the wholesaler and that he received an unspecified mixed box each delivery of US comics.

Now, as an adult I can imagine that a newsagents order form would be a pre-printed sheet(s) which he would fill in. X dozen Daily Blurb, Y dozen Women's Monthly etc.

If Mr Hartley wanted to purchase US comics he would, I surmise, tick the box for Z dozen US comics each delivery cycle. (I realise that the newsagent would probably have a standing order for most titles).

So if the order last week/month contained “6 stamped” comics then the wholesaler would the next time pull a box of “7 stamped” comics from the warehouse.

I understand that the comics received by the wholesaler would not, due to the vagaries of shipping schedules from the US to the UK, be totally different but at least it was an attempt by them to ensure that their customers' US box of comics was different each month and not a duplication of previous deliveries.

Edited June 10, 2022 by Redshade