The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Malacoda]

On 8/25/2022 at 11:40 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

Missed it! 

So Steve was bemoaning missing 3000 last week and now we're at 3100.  At this rate, we'll hit 4000 before the year is out. 

[themagicrobot]

I can understand a million views regarding a Spider-man thread. But a million views about a single comic (AF15) ? This thread has got some catching up to do (and is far more interesting).

[Garystar]

On 9/4/2022 at 6:57 PM, themagicrobot said:

Wow. Well done Gary. That must be one of the best Marvel collections in the UK. 

Thanks. I’ve been down-sizing comics and memorabilia the last two years, aiming for quality rather than quantity. 
 

On 9/4/2022 at 9:50 PM, Kevin.J said:

I love the Strange Tales #1, I had a wtb thread for one here when I first joined and passed on a few what were too pricey but would be bargains now

I’m the same with Journey into Mystery - I’m missing 8 issues but as one of those is #1 not sure I’ll ever complete. Last #1 I went for was about 10 years ago and was £250 but someone beat me to it. 

On 9/4/2022 at 8:58 PM, Malacoda said:

Strange Tales #1 - 12.   Dude.

I’m short 9 issues so still seems feasible to complete but prices climbing rapidly on these early Timely issues.

On 9/4/2022 at 10:26 PM, Malacoda said:

By the way, I'm sure you've noticed, but several of those comics you mention are on my Most Wanted list.  Any chance you still have those particular copies of Iron Man 21 & 22 and X men 64?  I think we've spoken about that copy of Surfer 10 before

None of my originals sadly. Yes it’s puzzling how certain issues turn up, I recently read someone else’s blog on how they found SS#10 on holiday as well. (Think it was Crivens).
On a caravan site shop in Tenby I once picked up about 15 Marvels all of which were ND issues (they had no distributed issues) including Spider-Man 121 (which I still have).

In retrospect if only we had asked some of these places where they were getting their comics. 
 

On 9/4/2022 at 10:26 PM, Malacoda said:

Plymouth, which was an outpost of the Empire. 

As I now live there I like to think of it as the centre of the empire. As an aside a mate of mine says Marvels and DCs were abundant in Plymouth when he started collecting in the mid 60s.

Edited September 5, 2022 by Garystar

[Malacoda]

On 9/5/2022 at 9:06 AM, themagicrobot said:

I can understand a million views regarding a Spider-man thread. But a million views about a single comic (AF15) ? This thread has got some catching up to do (and is far more interesting).

Indeed.  And I suspect those 14k postings which have had a million views are incredibly repetitious. The interesting thing to me about AF 15  (apart from the fact that the Spidey origin story is only 11 pages long which makes the cost per page even more eye-watering) is that Stan always (always!) tells the story that AF was due to be cancelled and 15 was always scheduled to be the last issue and no one cared what was going to be in it, that he put Spidey in there as a one shot to get him out of his system and it was only after the sales figures came in that they ever envisioned it being a series.  

But in AF 15 itself, there's a fan page where they publish their future intentions for the title, including that (1) Spider Man will now be appearing every issue, and (2) possibly, depending on future fan response, in two stories per issue (3) the contents page will be discontinued in response to fan feedback (4)  the word 'Adult' will be dropped from the title of future issues in response to feedback from teenage readers (5) there is an apology for not printing letters in that issue, but an assurance that the letters page will be back next month (6) a blurb to say don't say miss next month's issue and (7) an invitation to send your letters to the editor for publication in future issues of Amazing Fantasy.  

I feel like the cancellation was more of a surprise than Stan remembers it being. 

[themagicrobot]

I don’t have an (original) AF15 but I do have a genuine AF13 purchased second hand by a young me back before I knew rudimentary comic fandom existed and when I wouldn’t even be aware to look out for a later issue that featured the origin of Spider\Man.

As AF13 is even older than AF15 and probably didn’t sell as well as the final issue (how many slabbed AF15s are there already) why is AF13 still only worth tuppence? 

[Malacoda]

On 9/5/2022 at 2:13 PM, themagicrobot said:

As AF13 is even older than AF15 and probably didn’t sell as well as the final issue (how many slabbed AF15s are there already) why is AF13 still only worth tuppence? 

And, weirdly, AF 14 is substantially more valuable than 2 - 13? 

[themagicrobot]

I dunno. Could AF14 possibly contain an advert for the Spider-Man story in the next issue?

If it did then that would be the first (cameo) appearance of Spidey and AF14 would be more valuable than AF15

Edited September 5, 2022 by themagicrobot

[Malacoda]

On 9/5/2022 at 9:52 AM, Garystar said:

On 9/4/2022 at 10:26 PM, Malacoda said:

Plymouth, which was an outpost of the Empire. 

As I now live there I like to think of it as the centre of the empire. As an aside a mate of mine says Marvels and DCs were abundant in Plymouth when he started collecting in the mid 60s.

Yes! Yes! Yes!  I love these Kunte Kinte moments when someone's personal recollection exactly chimes with a recently discovered fact.  I would absolutely expect Plymouth to be a happy hunting ground for SA comics.  2 years ago when I started digging, Steve's friend Neil said his Dad always found Marvel & DC plentiful in Middlesbrough, which he ascribed to it being a port.  At the time, I told him it was more likely because T&P had a large warehouse in Doncaster, but since then I've discovered they had warehouses in most major cities, so there was probably one in Newcastle that I haven't found yet, or possibly even Middlesbrough itself (or maybe just a sales rep who was focussed on Middlesbrough). 

By the way, I hope no offence was taken at describing Plymouth as an outpost.  Just to be clear, I wasn't being a typical London d-head , I was referring to T&P's very strong concentration in the midlands.  Obviously, they started in Leicester, but when you find they had warehouses in South Yorkshire, West Yorkshire & Lancashire as well as Derbyshire, Nottingham, Birmingham & Liverpool, it makes them sound very strong in the north, but actually Doncaster is about 30 miles south of Leeds,  Cleckheaton about 10 miles and Widnes is south of Liverpool, so they're all kind of...well...south of the North?  (I'm going to get lynched here, aren't I?).  I mean, if you accept that the Northumbria is the North and Mercia is the Midlands..... actually I think I'll get out while I'm ahead.....

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Malacoda

[Kevin.J]

On 9/5/2022 at 4:10 PM, Malacoda said:

so there was probably one in Newcastle that I haven't found yet

Dunno about warehouses, but comics were plentiful when I was a kid (1970s) I worked as a paperboy in 2 different Newsagents and both sold comics and bought back issues back in, re-stamped and sold again, down the toon were a few specialist shops, Timeslip  was the best comic shop ever and I was never out of there if I had a few bob in my pocket (which wasn't too often )

Sunday there is an open market on the quayside and there were a few comic stalls, probs collectors, as a childish fool I adopted the same strategy as many and went for quantity over quality, 5 recent comics were much more appealing than 1 old comic for the same price 

I have to say I collect everything, but DC was my first love (Batman, Detective, Adventure comics, My Greatest Adventure, Strange Adventure, Brave and Bold, Mystery in Space) and they were much more plentiful than Marvel, I mean I wanted all but would buy DC titles over Marvel, but you could get anything here, Gold Key, Charltons, Dell etc

I remember at some later point when I started to fill out all my titles and had gaps, people I knew also had the same gaps and I was like  why are we all missing the same numbers, the first time I went to a comic mart and saw the stickers ND on a comic, I was so happy that these books I had searched long and hard for actually existed, then I saw the prices dealers of the day wanted 

 

 

 

[Malacoda]

On 9/5/2022 at 7:26 PM, Kevin.J said:

Dunno about warehouses, but comics were plentiful when I was a kid (1970s) I worked as a paperboy in 2 different Newsagents and both sold comics and bought back issues back in, re-stamped and sold again, down the toon were a few specialist shops, Timeslip  was the best comic shop ever and I was never out of there if I had a few bob in my pocket (which wasn't too often )

Sunday there is an open market on the quayside and there were a few comic stalls, probs collectors, as a childish fool I adopted the same strategy as many and went for quantity over quality, 5 recent comics were much more appealing than 1 old comic for the same price 

I have to say I collect everything, but DC was my first love (Batman, Detective, Adventure comics, My Greatest Adventure, Strange Adventure, Brave and Bold, Mystery in Space) and they were much more plentiful than Marvel, I mean I wanted all but would buy DC titles over Marvel, but you could get anything here, Gold Key, Charltons, Dell etc

I remember at some later point when I started to fill out all my titles and had gaps, people I knew also had the same gaps and I was like  why are we all missing the same numbers, the first time I went to a comic mart and saw the stickers ND on a comic, I was so happy that these books I had searched long and hard for actually existed, then I saw the prices dealers of the day wanted 

 

 

 

This and the ones like it are brilliant posts. All the endless poring over the paperwork yields some marvellous results, but these kind of recollections cannot be reproduced, deduced, inferred or reasoned into existence. These memories are gold. Do you still have any of the re-stamped ones, Kevin?  

Sunday market on the Quayside (circa 1978).  There are comics down there, I can sense it. 

Edited September 6, 2022 by Malacoda

[Kevin.J]

On 9/6/2022 at 1:01 AM, Malacoda said:

This and the ones like it are brilliant posts. All the endless poring over the paperwork yields some marvellous results, but these kind of recollections cannot be reproduced, deduced, inferred or reasoned into existence. These memories are gold. Do you still have any of the re-stamped ones, Kevin?  

Sunday market on the Quayside (circa 1978).  There are comics down there, I can sense it. 

 

Apart from loads of duplicates that I had amassed and gave away to make some room, I probably still have every comic I ever bought as a kid except X-Men and Silver Surfer as I sold them in the 80s when I was skint.

I went all over and bought from so many places, that it would be impossible to know which they are, I stamped quite a few myself as the woman who worked in the Newsagent would give us Tabs (cigarettes) and sweets to mind the shop between our paper rounds so she could sit in the back and watch Happy Days (we hardly stole anything )

The stamps were very generic, no shop name or anything, like the books you see with just a 6p, 8p,10p type stamp on, a biscuit tin with loads of different price stampers and coloured ink pads.

That picture of the Quay, facing all of those stalls in those days were a load of dilapidated warehouses, you have me thinking that one of them could have been T&P and full of lovely books right under my nose

Its all been renovated now and unrecognizable to what you see here, the market is still on Sunday morning, but its more like shop owners from the toon and pop up street food type stalls, absolutely no comics 

 

[Garystar]

On 9/5/2022 at 12:05 PM, Malacoda said:

Indeed.  And I suspect those 14k postings which have had a million views are incredibly repetitious. The interesting thing to me about AF 15  (apart from the fact that the Spidey origin story is only 11 pages long which makes the cost per page even more eye-watering) is that Stan always (always!) tells the story that AF was due to be cancelled and 15 was always scheduled to be the last issue and no one cared what was going to be in it, that he put Spidey in there as a one shot to get him out of his system and it was only after the sales figures came in that they ever envisioned it being a series.  

But in AF 15 itself, there's a fan page where they publish their future intentions for the title, including that (1) Spider Man will now be appearing every issue, and (2) possibly, depending on future fan response, in two stories per issue (3) the contents page will be discontinued in response to fan feedback (4)  the word 'Adult' will be dropped from the title of future issues in response to feedback from teenage readers (5) there is an apology for not printing letters in that issue, but an assurance that the letters page will be back next month (6) a blurb to say don't say miss next month's issue and (7) an invitation to send your letters to the editor for publication in future issues of Amazing Fantasy.  

I feel like the cancellation was more of a surprise than Stan remembers it being. 

Another indicator that Amazing Fantasy #16 was planned when #15 went to print is Spider-Man #1 being two short stories - presumably intended to be the lead story in AF#16 with some Ditko back up shorts. 
Yet another clue, at the end of Spider-Man story we are told he will appear in the next issue of Amazing Fantasy. 
 

Several years ago I read an article by someone (Will Murray?) who had researched the story job numbers on the splash page (bottom left ASM#1 splash below) and had claimed to identify the composition of Amazing Fantasy #16; Spider-Man lead story from ASM#1 and the Ditko back ups appearing in Tales to Astonish and Tales of Suspense. 

[Garystar]

On 9/5/2022 at 3:50 PM, themagicrobot said:

I dunno. Could AF14 possibly contain an advert for the Spider-Man story in the next issue?

If it did then that would be the first (cameo) appearance of Spidey and AF14 would be more valuable than AF15

No sign or mention of Spider-Man in AAF #14, there is no indication that #15 will have name change or be any different to previous issues. 

[Malacoda]

On 9/6/2022 at 1:55 AM, Kevin.J said:

That picture of the Quay, facing all of those stalls in those days were a load of dilapidated warehouses, you have me thinking that one of them could have been T&P and full of lovely books right under my nose

They may well have rented space or a floor in someone else's warehouse, so it might well be somewhere you actually were aware of it, just not as T&P.  It's also difficult to tell over time if they moved properties or occupied multiple addresses. They seem to have had a strong presence in Liverpool, which makes sense if the comics arrived at the Liverpool docks, but then we know all the processing took place in Oadby & Thurmaston, so maybe Liverpool was just big because it was the 6th or 7th largest town/city in the UK.  Or maybe I've just found more references to Liverpool than other places. 

[Malacoda]

On 9/6/2022 at 12:12 PM, Garystar said:

No sign or mention of Spider-Man in AAF #14, there is no indication that #15 will have name change or be any different to previous issues. 

I think Goodman reckoned he was going to be able to publish AF 16 but overestimated the goodwill.

There's a sort of myth/perception that Goodman had his own distribution company in the 50's (Atlas), he closed it and threw in with ANC who promptly went out of business, compelling Goodman to do his deal with devil (IND) and Marvel (as they became) were then restricted to 8 titles per month throughout the 60's, until Goodman sold Marvel to Perfect Film, Ackermann bought Curtis and effectively gave Marvel its own distribution company, the days of 8 titles were over and the Marvel explosion of titles happened from there. 

In reality, the number of titles was only restricted to 8 from Nov 57 to Oct 1960 and then it they slowly managed to creep it up.  I suspect this was the result of either Goodman or more likely Frohlich talking common sense with Liebowitz (or whoever actually played that fateful game of golf with Goodman) but it had to be managed with some subtlety as Harry Donenfeld was still at the wheel of DC/IND and not a man to let rational business sense interfere with a good personal feud.

The number of titles does creep slowly up through the 60's, the so called Marvel explosion isn't really an explosion of titles, it's the frequency of publication that was the step change, and this change actually happens while Marvel are still with IND (the number of titles then creeps up with Curtis, but the real explosion in titles is in 1972 when the average monthly number goes from 23 to 30 per month).

So across the 60’s they did manage to get at least one more title added per year. Having got away with adding FF & Hulk as bi-monthlies, Goodman now wanted to go monthly with the FF from issue 6 and I reckon he thought he was going to get away with upping the tally again, and get IND to distribute 13 titles in September 62, but it wasn’t to be and something had to get the chop. As AF had been a failing title and the sales for Spidey in #15 hadn’t yet come in, it was a no-brainer which title was getting the chop and which one was going monthly. 

[Malacoda]

Blimey, this one's a game of two halves. 

[themagicrobot]

I've just been looking through Amazing Adult Fantasy 12 and noticed according to the contents page (they never did a contents page in Astonish and Suspense did they?) that the third story is titled "Something Fantastic" (with an exclaimation mark?!?) . But the actual title artwork looks like "Something Fantastig" (with a question mark?!?) to me ?!?

 

 

 

It's an odd story that features Stan and Steve as shadows.

 

We mustn't forget to mention the Thorpe and Porter mention.

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by themagicrobot

[Redshade]

On 9/8/2022 at 6:22 PM, themagicrobot said:

I've just been looking through Amazing Adult Fantasy 12 and noticed according to the contents page (they never did a contents page in Astonish and Suspense did they?) that the third story is titled "Something Fantastic" (with an exclaimation mark?!?) . But the actual title artwork looks like "Something Fantastig" (with a question mark?!?) to me ?!?

 

 

 

 

 

It's an odd story that features Stan and Steve as shadows.

 

 

We mustn't forget to mention the Thorpe and Porter mention.

 

 

Yes it's certainly a "G". An exumple of the lettarer (?) lotting his mind wandar.
Anyway, the good news is that this is now declared a variant and is worth a million.

 

[Malacoda]

Thorpe and Porter are apparently inviting applications from go-ahead women.  Which has always been very much my policy too. 

Liverpool Echo - Thursday 02 October 1969

Edited September 9, 2022 by Malacoda

[Malacoda]

An interesting vacancy in our Sales Ledger department.  We would train a suitable applicant.  

"Here is the stamp. And, see over there....that's the ink pad"

Leicester Chronicle - Friday 23 November 1973

Edited September 9, 2022 by Malacoda