The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[themagicrobot]

The only full run of DC comics post July 1971 I can easily find are Superman's Girlfriend Lois Lane. No 111 is dated July 1971. Ironically that issue isn't on hand. I took it out to scan it yonks ago. Issue No 110 is May 1971 (a 15 cent issue) and Second Class postage was paid at Sparta Ill. Issue No 112 dated August 1971 (a 25 cent issue with 48 pages) has Second Class postage paid in New York and additional Mailing Offices. (my bold text not theirs). But isn't the whole point of this Second Class mailing stuff to do with Subscriptions? Because the indicia in both issues goes on to say No Subscriptions (my bold text not theirs). I wonder how many DCs of the period didn't even give the option of Subscriptions? And for how long did this decision last? I'm sure Lois Lane comics had been available by subscription in earlier years. Has it anything to do with decisions to increase the page count at the time and perhaps them being unsure if that new format would last?

PS: I have found a Lois Lane 111 July 1971 which has Sparta in the indicia so things did indeed change August 1971.

 

PPS: I have just looked at the indicia of a 1968 Lois Lane. Subscriptions were offered but it says Subscription in the US for twelve 32 page issues $1.75 including postage. Foreign $3.50 in American funds. Canada $2.00 in American funds; check (surely that ought to be cheque) or money order only. No subscription supplied without Zip Code. (my bold text). So that means you got 12 issues of regular sized comics and would miss out on receiving the 80 page giants which were interspersed with the normal comics. Also as they only published the comic 8 times a year your subscription would be spread out over the best part of two years. Things were far more straight-forward here in the UK where comics came out every week without fail.

Edited April 13, 2023 by themagicrobot
because

[Malacoda]

On 4/12/2023 at 10:01 AM, themagicrobot said:

Issue No 110 is May 1971 (a 15 cent issue) and Second Class postage was paid at Sparta Ill.

As we'd expect

On 4/12/2023 at 10:01 AM, themagicrobot said:

No 112 dated August 1971 (a 25 cent issue with more pages) has Second Class postage paid in New York and additional Mailing Offices. (my bold text not theirs)

So that absolutely looks like a subscription issue.  Does it have a crease or look like a subscription issue?

On 4/12/2023 at 10:01 AM, themagicrobot said:

But isn't the whole point of this Second Class mailing stuff to do with Subscriptions?

Yes, the Post Office Statements of Ownership are there to certify that the owner of that publication has the right to second class mail rates because it's a subscription requested by the customer and therefore not junk mail. 

On 4/12/2023 at 10:01 AM, themagicrobot said:

Because the indicia in both issues goes on to say No Subscriptions

Which I guess is because, as you say, the GS issues were not included in the subscription rate. They must have either intended to fix that if the GS change took off or revert back if not. Given how long DC stuck with the GS thing, they must have changed it. 

[themagicrobot]

I disagree

I don’t think 112 was a subscription issue

It was the new 48 page size not an 80 page giant

Ive not looked at every issue but even back to Lois Lane No 92 it says no subscriptions in the indicia

i think all DCs will say New York rather than Sparta from August 1971

i have just looked in Adventure 410 September 1971 also 25 cents New York and no subscriptions 

it also has a good old 7.5p T&P stamp on the cover

PS: Looking through some more Lois Lanes the No subscriptions in the indicia disappears at No 115 but it isn't until No 119 that I see an ad offering subscriptions for 39 different titles so No subscriptions in some (all?) DC titles seems to have been a 1970/1971 thing.

PPS: How neat is this? A bound volume of Lois Lane 109 to 132 I picked up years ago.

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by themagicrobot

[Albert Tatlock]

Why have a separate indicia for subscription copies?

Why not just register for the second-class postal privilege on behalf of the title as a whole, then exercise it only as and when needed?

Surely a postal official would not stand by in the subscription mailing room checking that only those few issues with the correct indicia were being packed, or be following the mailman to the doorstep of the subscriber, ready to pounce in case of a breach of the legislation passed in 1879.

And what if a dealer were to send out a back issue second class? They did, after all, with their catalogues, so why not with the lower-priced items from their inventory?

And what would the penalty for abuse of the privilege be? How long would he be serving?

Seems to me that this whole issue is just a case of bureaucracy gone mad. Now we are saddled with the task of deciphering the arcane nuances of a bygone age, which will, I hope, keep us out of worse mischief.

[Malacoda]

On 4/12/2023 at 4:02 PM, themagicrobot said:

i think all DCs will say New York rather than Sparta from August 1971

That will be fascinating to check and very significant.  

[Malacoda]

On 4/12/2023 at 4:02 PM, themagicrobot said:

Ive not looked at every issue but even back to Lois Lane No 92 it says no subscriptions in the indicia

Twas not ever thus.  You could have subscribed to Lois back at issue 18.  Now we just have to find where it meets in the middle.  And speaking of meeting in the middle, note the front crease on this one. 

[Malacoda]

On 4/12/2023 at 4:02 PM, themagicrobot said:

PPS: How neat is this? A bound volume of Lois Lane 109 to 132 I picked up years ago.

Gorgeous.  Makes you wonder why it took them so long to come round to TPB's and deluxe editions. Should've listened to Jack. 

[Malacoda]

On 4/12/2023 at 7:19 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

Why have a separate indicia for subscription copies?

Seems to me that this whole issue is just a case of bureaucracy gone mad. Now we are saddled with the task of deciphering the arcane nuances of a bygone age, which will, I hope, keep us out of worse mischief.

All good questions, Albert.  I have no idea why the indicias are different, though you do find a surprising amount of variations in them (and some cracking info, sometimes).  I was trying to discover whether the subscription issues had the product codes when Eric and I stumbled onto this variation.  To your point, when they publish the Statements of Ownership, which were specifically for subscription, they are in every copy, so why vary the indicia?

Edited April 12, 2023 by Malacoda

[Malacoda]

On 4/12/2023 at 10:01 AM, themagicrobot said:

I wonder how many DCs of the period didn't even give the option of Subscriptions? And for how long did this decision last? I'm sure Lois Lane comics had been available by subscription in earlier years.

So you could always subscribe to Lois until July 1968..... (note the line later that says 'No subscriptions accepted without Zip code').

From August 1968, the indicia changed.  You still have the line which says Second Class Postage in Sparta, but the lines that detailed the costs have gone and the note that said no subscriptions accepted without zip code has been truncated to just 'no subscriptions'. 

 

Then in August 1971, the indicia changes to reflect that the subscription address has changed to New York which is a bit academic as it still says no subscriptions. 

 

Then from October 1971 the note that says no subscriptions is gone, so this might be the point at which subscriptions resume. 

In March 1972, you start getting the address for the subscription dept, so subscriptions are definitely back. 

 

The funny part is that if it wasn't for the subscription costs line disappearing, the line that says 'no subscriptions accepted without zip code' being reduced down to just 'no subscriptions' would almost look like a typo (like a line wasn't fully removed).  I think it's going to require someone with the actual comics themselves to tell us if there was subscription information inside them. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Malacoda

[OtherEric]

On 4/12/2023 at 6:08 PM, Malacoda said:

So you could always subscribe to Lois until July 1968..... (note the line later that says 'No subscriptions accepted without Zip code').

From August 1968, the indicia changed.  You still have the line which says Second Class Postage in Sparta, but the lines that detailed the costs have gone and the note that said no subscriptions accepted without zip code has been truncated to just 'no subscriptions'. 

 

Then in August 1971, the indicia changes to reflect that the subscription address has changed to New York which is a bit academic as it still says no subscriptions. 

 

Then from October 1971 the note that says no subscriptions is gone, so this might be the point at which subscriptions resume. 

In March 1972, you start getting the address for the subscription dept, so subscriptions are definitely back. 

 

The funny part is that if it wasn't for the subscription costs line disappearing, the line that says 'no subscriptions accepted without zip code' being reduced down to just 'no subscriptions' would almost look like a typo (like a line wasn't fully removed).  I think it's going to require someone with the actual comics themselves to tell us if there was subscription information inside them. 

This would, of course, require someone to admit they have a run of Lois Lane to check...

104-130 are the Rose & the Thorn run.  I'll check when I get home from work if I remember.

[themagicrobot]

Quote

I think it's going to require someone with the actual comics themselves to tell us if there was subscription information inside them. 

Quote

This would, of course, require someone to admit they have a run of Lois Lane to check...

 I have a full run of Lois Lane comics at least from number 40 but not every single issue is easy to currently retrieve. I'm just not that organized. I also have the bound volume mentioned above that starts at No 109. Repeating what I have already posted above

Quote

PS: Looking through some more Lois Lanes the No subscriptions in the indicia disappears at No 115 but it isn't until No 119 that I see an ad offering subscriptions for 39 different titles so No subscriptions in some (all?) DC titles seems to have been a 1970/1971 thing.

Looking at my bound volume now, Lois Lane 109 April 1971 clearly says No Subscriptions in the indicia (and this had already been going on for many many months previous as No 92 May 1969 says no subscriptions too) Nos 110 to 114 say the same No Subscriptions. There are no ads offering subscriptions in those issues or 115,116,117,118. Lois Lane 119 February 1972 is the first time I see an ad for Subscriptions for a very long time.

No Subscriptions without Zip Code means just what it says. (and might make things difficult for potential foreign subscribers).  It has no connection with the later point blank No Subscriptions. I'm just curious how long this no subs situation lasted and if some or all DC titles were affected. Adventure comics from the same period say No Subscriptions. I need to look at some Supermans and Actions next.

[Malacoda]

On 4/13/2023 at 10:05 AM, themagicrobot said:

I'm just curious how long this no subs situation lasted and if some or all DC titles were affected. Adventure comics from the same period say No Subscriptions. I need to look at some Supermans and Actions next.

I did Supes.  More or less same pattern as his girlfriend. 

Up to July 1968, Superman 208, Sparta address and subscription info (same as Lois) 

209, August 1968, changes to no subscriptions. 

Superman 239 June-July 1971 date, Sparta for the last time, still no subs. 

240 July 1971,  still no subs but the address changes to NY. 

249  March 1972, the subscription information reappears. 

 

 

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Malacoda

[OtherEric]

On 4/13/2023 at 2:05 AM, themagicrobot said:

 I have a full run of Lois Lane comics at least from number 40 but not every single issue is easy to currently retrieve. I'm just not that organized. I also have the bound volume mentioned above that starts at No 109. Repeating what I have already posted above

Sorry about that, it was a not terribly successful attempt to make fun of myself for having a fairly long run of the title myself... specifically, the run with the Rose & Thorn backup.  My apologies.

Slightly more seriously, what I should really check is Adventure Comics, since I've got a complete run from around 1961 up of that.  Today's my Friday, so I'll try to remember that tomorrow.

[Kevin.J]

I can do Lois Lane from #1-100+ but someone would need to be specific of which issues to check, I am not up on what numbers correspond with dates and don't have the energy to go in blind.

Same with most DC titles, gimme some numbers and I can check.

[LowGradeBronze]

Once again apologies if I'm being a lame duck here, but isn't the point (as demonstrated by the foreign subscription to Star Wars 49) that we're looking for the possible difference in indicia between a domestic (i.e. within the US) subscription copy and a foreign subscription copy? (i.e. sent across the pond to old Blighty) So don't we need someone to own up, er I mean step forward with a copy of Lois Lane that was posted to them in the UK?  Or have we moved on now? (I have been reading all the posts!)

Edited April 14, 2023 by LowGradeBronze

[themagicrobot]

Wasn’t Star Wars a Marvel comic where differences were noticed?

DCs may or may not follow the same indicia format as Marvels

I was just looking through some Lois Lanes and surprised to see that for a period of two years subscriptions weren’t available to anyone foreign or otherwise.

i

[Albert Tatlock]

This is all increasingly bad news for the completists.

First we had our American cousins refusing to believe that the T & P UKPVs were not reprints, then having grudgingly to acknowledge, in the face of mounting evidence, that they were in fact first printings, thereby creating a hole in the collection.

Add to that the additional expense of tracking down and purchasing the Miller variants.

Then the Australian PVs.

Not to mention the Newsstand/Direct sale dichotomy.

Now the subscription variants, possibly one for each shore of the Atlantic.

Where is it all going to end? The shelves will be groaning.

[Malacoda]

On 4/14/2023 at 2:07 PM, LowGradeBronze said:

Once again apologies if I'm being a lame duck here, but isn't the point (as demonstrated by the foreign subscription to Star Wars 49) that we're looking for the possible difference in indicia between a domestic (i.e. within the US) subscription copy and a foreign subscription copy? (i.e. sent across the pond to old Blighty) So don't we need someone to own up, er I mean step forward with a copy of Lois Lane that was posted to them in the UK?  Or have we moved on now? (I have been reading all the posts!)

So, the start point was that I am trying to learn more about the product codes, particularly at their introduction. I had noticed that when the direct editions started, they were different to the newsstand editions (no product codes), which made me wonder if the subscription editions had them.  @Kevin.J provided a scan of Spidey 148 with a clear subscription crease and a product code, so that answered that (though I would love to have some more examples, please, anyone). 

During this exchange, @OtherEric pinged me his subscription copy of Star Wars 49, which added a further wrinkle in that it was a subscription copy mailed to Germany. He also provided the indicia, which proved to be the same as the direct edition indicia in Star Wars 49 but raised the question of whether the indicias were identical to the newsstand editions in the pre-direct days.  I checked Rolling Stone as a start point (because you can very easily tell newsstand editions from subscription, because they were distributed by IND and because they were printed by WCP) and discovered newsstands have product codes but subscriptions don't. 

I then checked some Avengers from the same month as Eric's Star Wars and discovered the indicia was different in his subscription issue to both direct & newsstand editions (which were identical to each other), which seemingly suggested that international subscriptions were mailed from NY while domestic were mailed from Sparta, and you then ate your hat.....however, I've discovered something else about this now (more in a minute...you might need either cough up the hat you ate or eat another one  ). 

Meanwhile, @themagicrobot looked at some DC's and discovered that there's a period where DC have a subscription address but then say 'no subscriptions' in the indicia.  I established (on the basis of two titles (Lois Lane & Superman) only at this point) that the no subscriptions thing seems to run from August 1968 to March 1972.  This is reflected in the indicia, though I don't know if there was any subscription info elsewhere in the comics. 

So the questions are: 

Is there any difference between newsstand & subscription editions? (specifically, I'm interested in July 71 to May 76, but generally...). 

What, if any, are the differences between foreign subscriptions and US domestic ones (and the differences between these and newsstand and later direct editions)? 

What is the DC no subscriptions note in the indicia all about?  Were there actually no subscription issues during this period and if so, why?

Is there any other subscription info in DC comics (before, during and after the no subscriptions period)?

I have to say, on reflection, that I'm amazed that there seems to be no subscription offers or forms in Marvel comics.  To subscribe, you would have to scour the comic and find the address and cost in the indicia and then write a letter detailing what you wanted.  Given that Marvel comics are full of Marvel trying to sell you Marvel branded everything-under-the-sun with coupons, memberships, full page ads, and handy just-cut-this-out pre-addressed labels, it's astonishing that the one thing Marvel comics make no attempt to sell you is....Marvel comics. 

No idea about DC, Charlton, Harvey, etc. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Malacoda]

On 4/14/2023 at 3:37 PM, themagicrobot said:

Wasn’t Star Wars a Marvel comic where differences were noticed?

DCs may or may not follow the same indicia format as Marvels

Indeed they aren't, and additionally Star Wars is a bad example because it has different indicias to everything else due to the Lucasfilm copyright notices (but gotta start somewhere).

[Malacoda]

On 4/13/2023 at 5:40 PM, OtherEric said:

Slightly more seriously, what I should really check is Adventure Comics, since I've got a complete run from around 1961 up of that.  Today's my Friday, so I'll try to remember that tomorrow.

 

On 4/14/2023 at 1:46 AM, Kevin.J said:

I can do Lois Lane from #1-100+ but someone would need to be specific of which issues to check, I am not up on what numbers correspond with dates and don't have the energy to go in blind.

Same with most DC titles, gimme some numbers and I can check.

So, gents, what we'd love to know if there's any subscription details or information or any mention of subscription changes (when suspended or re-introduced) in DC comics between August 1968 and March 1972, so June - July 1968 and April - May 1972 would also be of interest. This would be Adventure Comics 369 to 419 and Lois Lane 83 to 122, though obviously it's the issues round the start and stop that would be most interesting. 

It seems to me that when they stopped taking new subscriptions in 1968, there must have been a whole load of people who had ongoing subscriptions.  What happened to them?  Was some reassurance printed in the comics that existing, paid up subscribers would continue to receive their comics?  What happened when those subscriptions reached the end of the year? Were existing subscribers able to renew? If this was taken care of as part of the deal with Sparta it would make sense, but if it was handled in-house, you'd have staff serving an ever dwindling number of subscribers. 

This whole 'no subscribers' thing feels weird to me.