The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Albert Tatlock]

On 9/3/2023 at 7:37 PM, Garystar said:

I always thought those Marvel/Curtis mags with the orange stickers were distributed by Gold. 

Quite probable. The absence of DTW's ID is telling, they were not otherwise shy of revealing their handiwork to the world.

[Albert Tatlock]

On 9/3/2023 at 7:37 PM, Garystar said:

I always thought those Marvel/Curtis mags with the orange stickers were distributed by Gold. 

So, true to the decadent bourgeois capitalist principles that DTW adhered by, they snapped up the 30p copies from the newsagent on the corner, removed the stickers and repriced them with a profiteering price label.

Come the revolution, comrades, we will reset the clock, and all these will be available at their original, correct prices.

I can dream, can't I?

Edited September 3, 2023 by Albert Tatlock
correct typo

[Albert Tatlock]

And here are a couple from Forbidden Planet in Nottingham.

One on the cover, daring you to peel it off, and one thoughtfully applied to the bag.

I remember an early comic sales pitch, not a shop, but a stall or barrow, on the corner of Earlham Street near Cambridge Circus.

I bought some Atlas horror titles there, will try to dig out chapter and verse.

[Malacoda]

On 9/3/2023 at 7:51 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

So, true to the decadent bourgeois capitalist principles that DTW adhered by, they snapped up the 30p copies from the newsagent on the corner, removed the stickers and repriced them with a profiteering price label.

LOL, probably the first time Bram Stokes has been called a bourgeois capitalist, given that DTW was basically a hippie head shop with astrological mandalas on the walls and the Fortean Times being published upstairs.  I suspect, however, he would quite like being referred to as decadent.

Going back to my original point - that the pence copies were all printed for World and that's why DTW always had cents copies, even of comics that were PV's - the magazines were only ever cents copies so there's no contradiction in those being shipped direct to DTW with the 4 colour monthlies. 

I vividly remember buying that DHOKF 29 from my high street newsagent (Sutton's).  I had to borrow 30p from a mate to buy it, but Iron Fist and Shang Chi fighting each other was too exciting to miss.  It was one shelf higher than the comics, with all the other magazines (they didn't have a spinner rack in Sutton's).  And, as we've said before, presumably distributed by Gold until we find evidence to the contrary.  

[Albert Tatlock]

Here is a puzzle to which I readily admit no solution presents itself to me.

Below are the front and back covers to Black Magic # 9 and # 11.

The former was produced, according to the information on the back cover, in Oadby, the home turf of T & P, whereas the latter originated in London, the stamping ground of Miller.

I am presuming the Arnold mentioned refers to the forename of Arnold of A & M Miller.

I had always been under the impression that these two firms were deadly rivals, on worse terms than Rangers and Celtic, or Pepsi and Coke.

Here, though, it seems, they changed horses midstream.

I also have a few issues prior to # 9 and after # 11, and they all line up neatly with the Oadby/London watershed.

No # 10 to hand, unfortunately.

Can anyone enlighten me, please?

[Get Marwood & I]

Clear as mud, isn't it. Have a read of the Wiki page, Albert:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Book_Company

In 1953, Thorpe & Porter seems to have acquired the Arnold Book Company as a separate line

[Malacoda]

Yup. ABC, the Arnold Book Company, founded by Arnold Miller was distributed and then owned by Thorpe & Porter from 1953 to 1958 more or less as an imprint of T&P.  

I believed that this was because Arnold was a lot dodgier than his old Dad and either brought shame on the family or just potential trouble with the law with some of his publications (he later became an outright movie pornographer).  Although T&P were deadly rivals of Millers, T&P were already the other side of that line and got raided on a regular basis so where better to go than T&P. 

However, One Who Knows pointed out to me that in their paperback publishing, Millers were every bit as dodgy as T&P so he believed I was wrong. 

It should also be noted that apart from T&P, Millers were the only other publisher that ever got prosecuted (or even an attempted prosecution) under the Not In Front Of The Children Act 1955.  

[Get Marwood & I]

I posted this Miller / Jensen / T&P combo inside cover a while back in the thread:

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 9/6/2023 at 4:54 PM, Malacoda said:

It should also be noted that apart from T&P, Millers were the only other publisher that ever got prosecuted (or even an attempted prosecution) under the Not In Front Of The Children Act 1955.  

Join the Kew...

[Albert Tatlock]

On 9/6/2023 at 4:51 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Clear as mud, isn't it. Have a read of the Wiki page, Albert:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Book_Company

In 1953, Thorpe & Porter seems to have acquired the Arnold Book Company as a separate line

So does that mean that T & P fearlessly produced the first few issues of Black Magic close to home in Oadby, then took fright and put Arnold's name on the later issues, so that if something hit the fan, the good name of T & P would not be sullied?

[Get Marwood & I]

On 9/6/2023 at 5:54 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

So does that mean that T & P fearlessly produced the first few issues of Black Magic close to home in Oadby, then took fright and put Arnold's name on the later issues, so that if something hit the fan, the good name of T & P would not be sullied?

Mebbe.

Richmond will probably know. Or his man who knows might know. I don't know. 

[themagicrobot]

 Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of man, apart from the Shadow? I just happened to be perusing Google maps to see what my house looked like in 2008. Interesting that 100 miles away Lower James Street in 2022 contains a large She-Hulk. Note the two vagrants/comic collectors vainly searching for the home of Arnold Comics, issues of which are now very very old and worth £$£s when encapsulated. They will soon have to resort to visiting the betting shop and the bar instead.

 

[Yorick]

On 9/6/2023 at 8:31 AM, Albert Tatlock said:

I LOVE THAT ONE!!

Sorry, not as cool as the "British Edition", but at least it's a double cover...  I can take one off and frame it on the wall!! 

[Albert Tatlock]

On 9/6/2023 at 9:05 PM, Yorick said:

Sorry, not as cool as the "British Edition",

Nope! Original better by a country mile.

And the UK reprint is only B & W inside.

Probably far scarcer, though.

Just try to find Tales From The Crypt, etc in this series.

I have a book somewhere which references these rarities, which were the gateway drug to the motherlode of EC et al, will try to unearth it again.

The 1950s UK comic scene had many worthy pretenders to the throne, but the Messiah only arrived in late 1959, courtesy of Fred and the anonymous, presumably non-existent, Mr Porter.

Thanks to them, US cargo ships laden with a four colour assault on juvenile British morals could once again sail the ocean blue, bound for the dockside of just about the most landlocked of British cities, Leicester.

[Kevin.J]

Did anyone ever see a copy of Black magic Album #2 as advertised?

I have never seen a copy of it.

3/6 must have been a lot to pay at the time I guess even for 160 pages

 

 

[Malacoda]

On 9/6/2023 at 5:54 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

So does that mean that T & P fearlessly produced the first few issues of Black Magic close to home in Oadby, then took fright and put Arnold's name on the later issues, so that if something hit the fan, the good name of T & P would not be sullied?

You laugh, but the relationship between T&P and Arnold Miller is so odd (or patchily recorded) that nothing would surprise me.  I think it goes like this: 

1943  Len & Arnold found L. Miller & Son
1945  After the war, they start reprinting US comics in B&W (to subvert the importation ban in the same manner as T&P). 
1948 Arnold founds ABC but is still a partner in L Miller & Son.  Not sure why this happens.  ABC reprints US comics like Justice Traps the Guilty, Young Love, Young Brides & Black Magic which seem like strange bedfellows but they’re all Simon & Kirby creations for Prize comics and all stem from the same reprint deal.
1950 The craze for horror comics begins, starting with the ballast comics until ABC strikes a deal with EC in 1952 and starts reprinting their horror titles.  
1951 to 1953 T&P acquire a number of titles from ABC, but I’m unclear what this means.  Did they basically just distribute on behalf of ABC or did ABC package the comics for publication by T&P or did ABC sell the rights to reprint the Prize material to T&P and T&P actually printed the comics?  If the last, why did they keep ABC as an imprint?
1953 – 1958  ABC appears as an imprint of T&P.
1955  Moral outrage leads to the Children and Young Persons (Harmful Publications) Act.  ABC/T&P stop selling the majority of the horror comics.   
1954 - 1958 ABC pretty much gets out of the comic business, closing down in 1958. 
1958  Throughout this period, ABC has existed alongside L Miller & Son, but when Arnold shuts ABC and goes into making nudist movies, Len removes him from the company and L Miller and Son becomes L. Miller and Co. 
1959 The ban lifts and it becomes possible to import American comics which T&P manage to capitalise on far more successfully than Miller. 

[themagicrobot]

In the UK there were perhaps less than two dozen black and white reprints of Prize and EC Pre-code horror books that brought about this 1955 act. Any colour ECs in the UK probably arrived via US servicemen stationed here. Although colour ECs were waved by people promoting more regulation of comics sold here.

 

 

 

 Wasn't the USA act amended in the early 1970s which allowed words like "Horror" to be used in comic titles once more and allowed DC to sell "Black Magic" again? As the UK act is still on the statute books unchanged how does that impact on comics sold now? It is so vague, talking of crime, violence and cruelty which could be interpreted so many different ways. Surely every single issue of 2000AD shows "incidents of a repulsive or horrible nature". Or is 2000AD and every Marvel/DC comic now classed as Magazines rather than comics? The main problem in the 1950s was that everything published was classed as a "comic" if it was a funny animal one or an EC horror one. I suspect most of the horror (and romance) comics in the 1950s in the USA were purchased by people in their late teens/early twenties. Dell comics were far more popular with kids.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/3-4/28/1991-02-01/data.pdf

 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

A nice T&P stamped Prize Black Magic #4 from 1961 on the bay currently - I have three examples in the files for this issue - very few others though:

Cover inspiration for Seven.... 

[Albert Tatlock]

On 9/7/2023 at 12:53 AM, Kevin.J said:

Did anyone ever see a copy of Black magic Album #2 as advertised?

I have never seen a copy of it.

3/6 must have been a lot to pay at the time I guess even for 160 pages

 

 

A unicorn if ever there was one.

[themagicrobot]

The seller of this comic says "Only 1 exists". Dunno if he means he has the only copy remaining or simply means that No 1 was the only issue Arnold published. I do like the "ABChiller" logo though. If anyone is interested $2000 plus postage secures it.