The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Get Marwood & I]

52 minutes ago, Malacoda said:

Unless you’re proposing that the trail of possible delay points you highlighted took exactly the 3 months for every month’s comics, which seems too neat, but clearly, some of that 2-3 month gap was consumed by transit.  

Here's where I disagree with you

Again, I wasn't proposing that - I was just giving a list of operational things off the top of my head that might have taken up that length of time. There's nothing to disagree with really, as my position isn't stated one way or the other because I don't know (see my response to Albert above).

Putting my "what do the comics tell us" hat back on, my usual, preferred hat, they tell us that they were printed about 3 months prior to their cover dates in the US. The anecdotal recollections of those at the time place the UKPV books in UK shops with cover dates aligned to calendar dates. If they are right, it took about 3 months from US production to arrival in the UK shops. The speculation as to what might have happened in that three month travel period is fun, but we don't know do we, precisely. I'm not sure we ever will. 

Personally, I think we've torn the arse out of this one now, at least until a smoking gun of historical operational record is unearthed. 

I'm still waiting for my 'who did what when' one page chart though, Rich, if you wanted something to do 

And look at these three lovelies, currently languishing on the bay (a second Prize Going Steady #5):

If any of you attempt to outbid me on these mind, I will unleash the price stamp hounds 

 

[Malacoda]

4 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

 

If any of you attempt to outbid me on these mind, I will unleash the price stamp hounds 

 

But....but......I only need that issue of 'Going Steady' to complete my collection. 

That is a beautifully crisp 1 stamp. I think I actually have fallen in love. 

 

 

 

[Malacoda]

18 minutes ago, Get Marwood & I said:

 

I'm still waiting for my 'who did what when' one page chart though, Rich, if you wanted something to do 

 

Right, but as you say, that would just be speculation, so I can produce 15 different versions of it, but I think, as you also say, we need the smoking gun.  And unless you have all the smoking guns, you still don't know.  To take one of my examples, the difference in offloading at the docks was anywhere between nothing and ten days, so unless you know when comics started coming in containers, you know nothing.  But even then, how long did they spend parked in a container lorry park?

The one thing that would be telling is the delivery manifests to Oadby.  You wouldn't necessarily know all the steps in between, but you'd have a release date for Sparta and an arrival date at T&P. 

Next on my reading list is Martin Ackerman's book on the Curtis Affair, so that ain't gonna yield any help with this. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 6/20/2021 at 3:59 PM, Malacoda said:

Right, but as you say, that would just be speculation, so I can produce 15 different versions of it, but I think, as you also say, we need the smoking gun.  And unless you have all the smoking guns, you still don't know.  To take one of my examples, the difference in offloading at the docks was anywhere between nothing and ten days, so unless you know when comics started coming in containers, you know nothing.  But even then, how long did they spend parked in a container lorry park?

The one thing that would be telling is the delivery manifests to Oadby.  You wouldn't necessarily know all the steps in between, but you'd have a release date for Sparta and an arrival date at T&P. 

Next on my reading list is Martin Ackerman's book on the Curtis Affair, so that ain't gonna yield any help with this. 

Do we need anymore help? The comics got here, that's enough for me*. Celebrate that 

 

*Not that I've ever torn the arse out of a research strand myself of course....

[Garystar]

If it was contemporary this must be oldest stamp? Does fact it is Canadian mean anything in terms of distribution to uk?

YOUNG MEN no.6 Bell / Marvel Atlas 1950 super-rare Golden-age CANADIAN EDITION

 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

13 minutes ago, Garystar said:

If it was contemporary this must be oldest stamp? Does fact it is Canadian mean anything in terms of distribution to uk?

YOUNG MEN no.6 Bell / Marvel Atlas 1950 super-rare Golden-age CANADIAN EDITION

 

 

Good spot Gary.

I wonder when, and where, it was stamped...

[Garystar]

Came across this looking at my odds and sods. T&P stamp pre-printed, indicates just how ingrained these stamps were as a part of collecting in UK;

(Hulk #180 - 182 @25p each. WWBN 32@12p - if only we’d known)

[Malacoda]

There was a point, I think made by Albert, about comics coming over via a dealer going over there and coming back with a load in a suitcase. We've also talked about UK dealers buying US returns.  There is an interesting comment that comes up a few times on Duncan McAlpine's site, specifically in reference to the GS specials of 1972  ( Avengers Special 5, Sub Mariner Special 2 etc).  

"A very small number of cents copies came over to the UK after publication through dealers buying US unsold returns. These copies have ink marks (green or red) on one or more edge, sometimes quite heavy. This defect is significant and in general drops the value by at least a grade. Very hard to find a high grade copy without staining in the UK."

What interested me about this is that it's the very moment that things are getting competitive among the growing number pf dealers.  Bram Stokes opened DTW in 1969, Frank Dobson organised the first comic mart in 1970, the first Comicons are now (1968 onwards), in 1972, Dez Skinn starts to organise a huge comic mart in London, but finds he's been pipped by Rob Barrow & Nick Landau and the following year, Nick Landau founds CMDS and starts importing comics specifically to sell to dealers, not to the high street. Additionally, at this point, there have been no UK Marvel reprints for some while.  Odhams stopped publishing reprints in 1969.  TV21 printed a strange blend of what I assume were the nearest-to-TV heroes:  Silver Surfer, Spider Man, Ringo Kid and the Western version of the Ghost Rider ( and, of course, Homer the Happy Ghost). This lasted less than a year.  Then the Martspress debacle, before Stan doubled down in the UK and created his own UK imprint (or had his strings pulled by Al Landau and Ray Wergan, depending on your viewpoint).  In August of 1971, distribution of the US Marvels to the UK flips from T&P to World Distributors, which initially halves the number of titles distributed. This is exactly the moment when, if your name is Skinn, Landau, Barrow, Lake, Dobson, Clarke or Hudson, you're at the Heathrow checkout, explaining to Mandy from BOAC why you're travelling with empty suitcases. 

This is why it caught my attention that Duncan says that canny dealers were buying up returns of comics which were not distributed in the UK. When I first read it, I thought 'why at this moment?', but this is exactly the moment it would have happened. It fits in with everything else.  

Sorry about that. Felt compelled to share. 

 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 7/26/2021 at 8:22 PM, Malacoda said:

There was a point, I think made by Albert, about comics coming over via a dealer going over there and coming back with a load in a suitcase. We've also talked about UK dealers buying US returns.  There is an interesting comment that comes up a few times on Duncan McAlpine's site, specifically in reference to the GS specials of 1972  ( Avengers Special 5, Sub Mariner Special 2 etc).  

"A very small number of cents copies came over to the UK after publication through dealers buying US unsold returns. These copies have ink marks (green or red) on one or more edge, sometimes quite heavy. This defect is significant and in general drops the value by at least a grade. Very hard to find a high grade copy without staining in the UK."

What interested me about this is that it's the very moment that things are getting competitive among the growing number pf dealers.  Bram Stokes opened DTW in 1969, Frank Dobson organised the first comic mart in 1970, the first Comicons are now (1968 onwards), in 1972, Dez Skinn starts to organise a huge comic mart in London, but finds he's been pipped by Rob Barrow & Nick Landau and the following year, Nick Landau founds CMDS and starts importing comics specifically to sell to dealers, not to the high street. Additionally, at this point, there have been no UK Marvel reprints for some while.  Odhams stopped publishing reprints in 1969.  TV21 printed a strange blend of what I assume were the nearest-to-TV heroes:  Silver Surfer, Spider Man, Ringo Kid and the Western version of the Ghost Rider ( and, of course, Homer the Happy Ghost). This lasted less than a year.  Then the Martspress debacle, before Stan doubled down in the UK and created his own UK imprint (or had his strings pulled by Al Landau and Ray Wergan, depending on your viewpoint).  In August of 1971, distribution of the US Marvels to the UK flips from T&P to World Distributors, which initially halves the number of titles distributed. This is exactly the moment when, if your name is Skinn, Landau, Barrow, Lake, Dobson, Clarke or Hudson, you're at the Heathrow checkout, explaining to Mandy from BOAC why you're travelling with empty suitcases. 

This is why it caught my attention that Duncan says that canny dealers were buying up returns of comics which were not distributed in the UK. When I first read it, I thought 'why at this moment?', but this is exactly the moment it would have happened. It fits in with everything else.  

Sorry about that. Felt compelled to share. 

 

 

It's nice when the pieces of the puzzle fit, isn't it Rich.

You've got competition, by the way...

 

[Malacoda]

On 7/27/2021 at 9:03 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

It's nice when the pieces of the puzzle fit, isn't it Rich.

You've got competition, by the way...

 

Dang. And he's greener than me.  Actually I'm surprised more people aren't using that pic. It is a stunner. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 7/27/2021 at 12:43 PM, Malacoda said:

Dang. And he's greener than me.  Actually I'm surprised more people aren't using that pic. It is a stunner. 

It is. My old copies:

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 6/13/2021 at 8:47 AM, nmtg9 said:

No, haven't heard from Kevin for a few months now actually. 

He's OK! 

[Get Marwood & I]

Did you boys all miss this, or what.....?

 

Up The Englandville 

 

[OtherEric]

On 7/30/2021 at 3:54 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Did you boys all miss this, or what.....?

A well earned accolade for you!

[Get Marwood & I]

On 7/30/2021 at 11:56 PM, OtherEric said:

A well earned accolade for you!

Gotta have a Brit Party, aint we 

[nmtg9]

There are board awards? 

[nmtg9]

On 7/30/2021 at 11:51 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

He's OK! 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 7/30/2021 at 11:56 PM, OtherEric said:

A well earned accolade for you!

Good man Eric. Are you a Brit, Eric? I hope so, as not one of my brethren has said a damn word about it. Party cancelled!

[Garystar]

On 7/30/2021 at 11:54 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Did you boys all miss this, or what.....?

 

Yes, I did miss this. 
The Lady of the Lake-- her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Marwood, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king!

Well done/deserved. Will you be going for a pence registry set award. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 7/31/2021 at 8:59 AM, Garystar said:

Yes, I did miss this. 
The Lady of the Lake-- her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Marwood, was to carry Excalibur. THAT is why I am your king!

Well done/deserved. Will you be going for a pence registry set award. 

Yes. Gorgo and Konga