Where does Old Man Logan appear in Fantastic Four 558 1 1

[William-James88]

I bought Fantastic Four 558 today because I like the character of Old Man Logan and figured, why not have his first appearance. But after looking through the book, I don't see him. Maybe I missed him and if I did please let me know where he is (the point of this post) and if he isn't actually in the issue then why in the world would this be considered his first appearance?

[Crops068]

Believe it was revealed (later on) he is the hooded man at the end of the book?  It is a cameo only.  Recommend checking out Key Collector, that is what it says at least.

[William-James88]

44 minutes ago, Crops068 said:

Believe it was revealed (later on) he is the hooded man at the end of the book?  It is a cameo only.  Recommend checking out Key Collector, that is what it says at least.

So the person in the hood in this pic then?

Edited July 15, 2020 by William-James88

[Crops068]

3 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

I read that too, but I have the book in front of me and I don't see a hooded man at the end. It's just a splash page of Hulk, I don't see what they are talking about and I can't find a pic online.

Is it this guy?

[William-James88]

1 minute ago, Crops068 said:

Is it this guy?

Ah right, yes it is. We see he has claws later:


Ok, thanks for your help, was really wondering about this

[Crops068]

3 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

Ah right, yes it is. We see he has claws later:


Ok, thanks for your help, was really wondering about this

He is on the page before as well and in #559 also.  Haven't checked beyond that.

Glad I could help.

[William-James88]

1 minute ago, Crops068 said:

He is on the page before as well and in #559 also.  Haven't checked beyond that.

Glad I could help.

yeah you helped big time

[ygogolak]

Wow, what a reach.

[William-James88]

11 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

Wow, what a reach.

Haha, yeah. Bleeding Cool wrote about it though as one of the 25 comics to watch out for https://bleedingcool.com/comics/25-modern-comics-may-increase-in-price-comic-store-in-your-future/

[Gatsby77]

How much before Wolverine 66 did these issues come out?

And...if this is these are the true first (even cameo) appearances, how did folks not know this in the run-up to the film Logan (that was loosely based on the first/primary storyline)?

Edited July 15, 2020 by Gatsby77

[William-James88]

6 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

How much before Wolverine 66 did these issues come out?

Came out the same month. Not sure about the exact week. I read somewhere that FF 558 was considered first because it was within the 616 universe as opposed to an alternate timeline. I kinda lost it after reading that. But serious, type anywhere online "first appearance of old man logan" and FF 558 shows up first, always. I don't really get it.
Marvel's wiki does state it as his first appearance
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Fantastic_Four_Vol_1_558

Edited July 15, 2020 by William-James88

[Gatsby77]

Huh. I'm still confused.

As a collector, it doesn't matter to me - I value legit, named concrete full appearances over cameos (hence, X-Men 266 for Gambit over X-Men Annual 14, although I own/bought/read both off the shelves).

But this also smacks of weird revisionist history, a la Web of Spider-Man being the first cameo of Venom.

Why?

Because collectors (and speculators) aren't generally stupid.

It strains credulity that no one would have pinpointed (and hyped) FF # 558 in its first decade+ after release, *particularly* given that we had a major movie based on the character and storyline come out in 2017.

The CGC Census shows 980 slabbed copies of Wolverine # 66 (first prints alone, excluding special covers or reprints).

The CGC Census shows 8 slabbed copies of FF # 558. Total.

And yet *no one* figured out FF # 558's significance prior to 2017, even enough to buy up and slab a dozen copies and hype this book, X-Men # 201 first-true-appearance-of-Cable-style?

I call BS.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Gatsby77

[kairos70]

It's the same character(James Howlett of Earth-807128) in Wolverine #66 and FF #558 but because of lazy writing and even lazier editing Wolverine #66 is Old man Logan's first appearance "chronologically" whereas FF #558 is his first appearance "historically".

[William-James88]

6 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

Huh. I'm still confused.

As a collector, it doesn't matter to me - I value legit, named concrete full appearances over cameos (hence, X-Men 266 for Gambit over X-Men Annual 14, although I own/bought/read both off the shelves).

But this also smacks of weird revisionist history, a la Web of Spider-Man being the first cameo of Venom.

i wouldnt call it revisionist history though since both ff and wolverine were written by the same writer at the time and Mark Millar always tries to create hype and synergy where he can. He was using the same characters in both books. 

[followtheleader]

Thanks for bringing the news forth. 

FF book is definitely of low interest to me for my collection.  Would prefer 66 by quite a bit. 

I agree with a previous poster, it's like the 1st Gambit; give me UXM 266 any day. 

Patrick

[WeR138]

20 hours ago, William-James88 said:

I bought Fantastic Four 558 today because I like the character of Old Man Logan and figured, why not have his first appearance. But after looking through the book, I don't see him. Maybe I missed him and if I did please let me know where he is (the point of this post) and if he isn't actually in the issue then why in the world would this be considered his first appearance?

I picked up a copy of this book today at BAM and after looking through it, I had to google the location of the character. 

A short stroll through the boards later, and I see someone else had the exact same question. 

Seems like a stretch to me, but who am I to argue.

[Gatsby77]

11 hours ago, William-James88 said:

i wouldnt call it revisionist history though since both ff and wolverine were written by the same writer at the time and Mark Millar always tries to create hype and synergy where he can. He was using the same characters in both books. 

Still smacks of BS - hence my Web of Spider-Man 18 analogy, as it's the "first appearance of Venom because that's Eddie Brock's arm in two panels."

That statement that Venom's arm appears in both Web of Spider-Man 18 and and Web of Spider-Man 24 -- a full year and a half before the release of ASM 300 -- came from David Michelinie, who wrote those issues, along with ASM 298-300. He co-created the character.

Sure - it's cool to think he was building a storyline over multiple titles, and years, that would culminate in the first full appearance of a great new villain in ASM 300.

But, like Millar, the appearances are anything but obvious to the readers of those issues, AND he only made the statement connecting the books years later.

 

Also, superhero comic books aren't exactly the place for subtlety: If you have to explain even to close readers that the arm is *actually* Venom or that the hooded character is *actually* Old Man Logan, you've failed.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Gatsby77

[Lazyboy]

48 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

AND he only made the statement connecting the books years later.

Years? No. It was known shorty after Venom's (full) debut. People just didn't notice and/or care at the time.

[Gatsby77]

59 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Years? No. It was known shorty after Venom's (full) debut. People just didn't notice and/or care at the time.

And still don't.

[William-James88]

1 hour ago, Gatsby77 said:

And still don't.

The difference is Web of spider-man doesn't come up online when you search for venom's first appearance, at least not even close to as much as ASM 299/300. 299 is listed as his first appearance on Marvel's wiki. But for Old Man Logan, Fantastic Four 558 is what comes up.