Is CGC Going to Universal Labels for Restored Books?

[joe_collector]

Can you discern between a book that is VG 4.0 and VF/NM 9.0? If yes, then you shouldn't have any problem with the new system.

 

Here's a bit of advice: Stop drinking at lunch.

[FFB]

What do you care?

 

I've stated my personal reasons, now it's your turn. Exactly how many restored books do you own, or are planning to bring to market?

 

I currently own zero restored books. When I start buying again after I get my new firm off the ground, I will be focusing on early GA and platinum age books (I want to put together an early Detective, Action, and More Fun run), so I will be buying restored books for my permanent collection. I'd prefer to have them in holders with blue labels and more detailed restoration information.

 

It doesn't matter what collectors of unrestored books want from the label. Unless there is an increased opportunity to commit fraud by using the same color label, what matters is what buyers of the restored books want. Dealers like Metropolis who sell raw books with restoration don't use different color mylars and yet still manage to communicate all of the important information to the buyer (the honest dealers do, at least). Why should CGC do differently?

[FFB]

Can you discern between a book that is VG 4.0 and VF/NM 9.0? If yes, then you shouldn't have any problem with the new system.

 

Here's a bit of advice: Stop drinking at lunch.

 

Lunch isn't for another hour and what do you have against Wheaties and Whisky? Aren't you Canadian? That should be like mother's milk to you.

[action1kid]

Actually i would disqualify myself from this conversation because i have a bias in my favor.i think that turning ALL BOOKS, restored and unrestored into all blue labels would hurt the value of my unrestored cgc collection. ok, ive given you a very honest answer and i admit that it is a little harder to be objective about this when you have a totally unrestored collection.But objectivity is also in question for you guys who collect restored as it is not hard to figure you would love to see em all go blue.

[FFB]

Sorry, Nick, that was presumptuous of me. I should have asked first.

 

The closest you'll EVER see . . .

 

 

 

Remind me -- when exactly was the last time you admitted you were wrong on these forums?

 

I actually admit I'm wrong quite a bit - as I am often wrong You need to actually read some of the posts before you "shoot from the hip"

 

Once . . .

 

Twice . . .

 

Three times . . .

 

And innumerous times via pm's

 

but hey, who's counting?

 

I guess I missed the part where you admitted being wrong. I saw you twice apologize for being snippy and once acknowledge that someone else made a good point. But I don't see the "I am wrong" part.

[october]

I've got a big mirror, on the ceiling over my bed.

 

From the resident Porn King, this is hardly surprising.

 

Much as I'd love to claim that title, I think it belongs to Sid.

 

[joe_collector]

Why should CGC do differently?

 

Ummm, how about consistency? The PLOD has been around for 5+ years, or as long as CGC has, and to change this standard now risks a lot. I just see it as yet another move made with dealer interests in mind.

 

I am getting sick and tired of all this restored/trimming/resto/etc. BS that is going on, but even so I still buy the odd CGC book and have held what I own. If CGC goes ahead with this stupidity, I pledge to sell everything I own and get out.

 

I realize that my few boxes of CGC books are a spit in the bucket, and selling them will have virtually no impact, but I cannot continue to support a company that makes such short-sighted decisions, and is apparently being run by the dealers.

[FFB]

Actually i would disqualify myself from this conversation because i have a bias in my favor.i think that turning ALL BOOKS, restored and unrestored into all blue labels would hurt the value of my unrestored cgc collection. ok, ive given you a very honest answer and i admit that it is a little harder to be objective about this when you have a totally unrestored collection.But objectivity is also in question for you guys who collect restored as it is not hard to figure you would love to see em all go blue.

 

I understand your point, but I just don't see that happening (your collection losing value). Doesn't your collection consist of a single copy of Action #1? The label color of restored books will have no effect on the value of your book. I don't think it will have any effect at all on unrestored books in general either, but it certainly isn't going to affect the going rate for an unrestored Action #1.

 

If anything, it will make people less skittish about buying GA keys with a dot of color touch, like the Edgar Church copy of Adventure #40 or More Fun #52. Those are superb books that are virtually unrestored, but suffer the stigma of the purple label because of the presence of a dot of color touch and maybe a spot of glue that is holding down a small bindery tear, both of which affect the appearance of those books negligibly. But for moderately restored or extensively restored books, I don't think the label color will affect the values of those books one bit.

[FFB]

Why should CGC do differently?

 

Ummm, how about consistency? The PLOD has been around for 5+ years, or as long as CGC has, and to change this standard now risks a lot. I just see it as yet another move made with dealer interests in mind.

 

I am getting sick and tired of all this restored/trimming/resto/etc. BS that is going on, but even so I still buy the odd CGC book and have held what I own. If CGC goes ahead with this stupidity, I pledge to sell everything I own and get out.

 

I realize that my few boxes of CGC books are a spit in the bucket, and selling them will have virtually no impact, but I cannot continue to support a company that makes such short-sighted decisions, and is apparently being run by the dealers.

 

But Joe, it is the COLLECTORS who historically have had a problem with the purple label and it is as much the collectors as the dealers who want the change. The only people I know of who want to keep the purple label are people who have no interest in owning restored books. As long as the new label is clearly marked so that sellers can't fool buyers into thinking that a restored book is unrestored, the unrestored collectors don't have anything to worry about.

[joe_collector]

But Joe, it is the COLLECTORS who historically have had a problem with the purple label and it is as much the collectors as the dealers who want the change.

 

No, it's the incredibly tiny number of RESTORED COLLECTORS who have had a problem, while the other 99% of collectors liked the status quo. You're really changing something that the vast majority of collectors had no problems with.

 

If CGC doesn't see this, then they deserve the storm to come.

[action1kid]

I am a 100 percent superman collector .I do have much more than just 1 action 1. I have supes 1, key action numbers, but its all supes, costumes,toys, just wanted to clearify.....The mile high adv 40 is in a purple labelThe mile high more fun 52 is in a blue label[with very very slight work done to it.

[FFB]

But Joe, it is the COLLECTORS who historically have had a problem with the purple label and it is as much the collectors as the dealers who want the change.

 

No, it's the incredibly tiny number of RESTORED COLLECTORS who have had a problem, while the other 99% of collectors liked the status quo. You're really changing something that the vast majority of collectors had no problems with.

 

If CGC doesn't see this, then they deserve the storm to come.

 

Where is your survey to back up your 99% numbers? You're full of caca and you know it, Vince.

[esquirecomics]

I currently own zero restored books. When I start buying again after I get my new firm off the ground, I will be focusing on early GA and platinum age books (I want to put together an early Detective, Action, and More Fun run), so I will be buying restored books for my permanent collection. I'd prefer to have them in holders with blue labels and more detailed restoration information.

 

Back away from my More Funs dude!

 

I've got books to sell you.

[esquirecomics]

As the only lawyer involved in this discussion, let me put your mind at ease -- if someone were to sell a book in a blue label in such a manner as to hide the fact that it was a restored book, that person is just as guilty of fraud as the seller of the PLOD as an unrestored book.

 

Sorry, but that really depends on the label, doesn't it? I asked a few legal eagles here for an opinion, and they could not offer one without seeing the final product from CGC.

 

So how can you? Do you have inside info?

 

As reluctant as I am to again have to concede but I would agree with FFB's legal analysis up above. Fraud is fraud regardless of the color of the label. Or put it this way, I wouldn't hesitate to sue someone if they misled a buyer on restoration whether a blue label, purple label or no label.

 

Don't [embarrassing lack of self control] me off!

[FFB]

As the only lawyer involved in this discussion, let me put your mind at ease -- if someone were to sell a book in a blue label in such a manner as to hide the fact that it was a restored book, that person is just as guilty of fraud as the seller of the PLOD as an unrestored book.

 

Sorry, but that really depends on the label, doesn't it? I asked a few legal eagles here for an opinion, and they could not offer one without seeing the final product from CGC.

 

So how can you? Do you have inside info?

 

As reluctant as I am to again have to concede but I would agree with FFB's legal analysis up above. Fraud is fraud regardless of the color of the label. Or put it this way, I wouldn't hesitate to sue someone if they misled a buyer on restoration whether a blue label, purple label or no label.

 

Don't [embarrassing lack of self control] me off!

 

Stop riding my coattails, piker!

[FFB]

I currently own zero restored books. When I start buying again after I get my new firm off the ground, I will be focusing on early GA and platinum age books (I want to put together an early Detective, Action, and More Fun run), so I will be buying restored books for my permanent collection. I'd prefer to have them in holders with blue labels and more detailed restoration information.

 

Back away from my More Funs dude!

 

I've got books to sell you.

 

We are talking (realistically) 18 months before I start any heavy buying. Although if I pop a big case early, there is one book in particular that I am going to buy right away -- but relax, it isn't a More Fun.

[sborock]

I currently own zero restored books. When I start buying again after I get my new firm off the ground, I will be focusing on early GA and platinum age books (I want to put together an early Detective, Action, and More Fun run), so I will be buying restored books for my permanent collection. I'd prefer to have them in holders with blue labels and more detailed restoration information.

 

Back away from my More Funs dude!

 

I've got books to sell you.

 

We are talking (realistically) 18 months before I start any heavy buying. Although if I pop a big case early, there is one book in particular that I am going to buy right away -- but relax, it isn't a More Fun.

 

Cherry Poptart # 1?

[FFB]

I currently own zero restored books. When I start buying again after I get my new firm off the ground, I will be focusing on early GA and platinum age books (I want to put together an early Detective, Action, and More Fun run), so I will be buying restored books for my permanent collection. I'd prefer to have them in holders with blue labels and more detailed restoration information.

 

Back away from my More Funs dude!

 

I've got books to sell you.

 

We are talking (realistically) 18 months before I start any heavy buying. Although if I pop a big case early, there is one book in particular that I am going to buy right away -- but relax, it isn't a More Fun.

 

Cherry Poptart # 1?

 

Damn you Borock! Now everyone is going to want one!

[lou_fine]

Scott, are they going to a numeric qualification for the restoration? Like 1 through 10?

 

That's what Steve said. The "10" is supposed to be the least amount/highest quality restoration, like one dot of color touch or a near-invisible tear seal. A 1 will be a frankenbook does in amateurish fashion.

 

Oh, I thought they would do it the other way around.

 

1 = VERY little restoration

 

10 = the book was put back together with tools

 

That's what I thought and is the way I think they SHOULD do it. But Steve's rationale was that because the number "10" is a good thing with respect to the grade of books, they want the number 10 to reflect the "best quality" and "most acceptable" forms of restoration when used as a restoration score. There is some logic to that once it's explained, but I agree that it is counterintuitive.

 

FFB;

 

In full agreement with you that it would make more sense if R-1 stood for minimal restoration while R-10 stood for maximum restoration. After all, one is a much smaller number than ten.

 

When it comes to condition grading, it only makes sense that we would want the HIGHEST grade possible (i.e. a 10.0). When it comes to restoration, however, it also makes sense that we would want the LEAST amount possible (i.e. a R-1) or even none at all (i.e. a R-0).

 

It takes mental gymnastics to try to relate the numerical condition grade to the numerical restoration rating since it would run totally counter to most people's initial thought processes.

[Hobo]

I currently own zero restored books. When I start buying again after I get my new firm off the ground, I will be focusing on early GA and platinum age books (I want to put together an early Detective, Action, and More Fun run), so I will be buying restored books for my permanent collection. I'd prefer to have them in holders with blue labels and more detailed restoration information.

 

Back away from my More Funs dude!

 

I've got books to sell you.

 

We are talking (realistically) 18 months before I start any heavy buying. Although if I pop a big case early, there is one book in particular that I am going to buy right away -- but relax, it isn't a More Fun.

 

Cherry Poptart # 1?

 

Damn you Borock! Now everyone is going to want one!

 

"I don't know, but I know what I like!"