The essential difference between SA DC and Marvel in a nutshell. 1 1

[ttfitz]

20 minutes ago, fmaz said:

You can take 30 SA issues of Superman or Batman and shuffle them up like a deck of cards and read them ... and it literally makes almost no impact on the storytelling. Nothing from one issue mattered to the next anyway.   Imagine trying to do that with Marvel books. 
I wonder if, at the time, DC considered the above a “positive” ... or they just were slow to notice what Marvel did and why it was working. 

And yet, for most of that time, DC sales on those books were higher than anything Marvel was putting out. That Superman pictured came out in 1962, and according to the figures at comicron.com, Superman was selling nearly 750k a month. Even Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane were selling nearly half a million. Highest listed Marvel that year on that site was ... Modelling with Millie!!!! (a note - the site has 1966 being the first year that Marvel gave figures for Amazing Spider-Man and Fantastic Four). 

Jumping to 1966, Superman is still selling at around 720k, with Amazing Spider-Man coming in at 340k - getting beat by titles like Betty and Veronica, Archie, Metal Men. All the Batman and Superman titles sold well above Spider-Man and Fantastic Four (330k).

As the years went by, Spider-Man increased sales, and the DC titles decreased, but by the end (near the end?) of the SA in 1969, Spider-Man was still being outsold by Action Comics (barely), Lois Lane, Superboy, and Superman from DC - and Betty and Veronica, and Archie, from Archie Comics.

[FoggyNelson]

5 hours ago, ttfitz said:

And yet, for most of that time, DC sales on those books were higher than anything Marvel was putting out. That Superman pictured came out in 1962, and according to the figures at comicron.com, Superman was selling nearly 750k a month. Even Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane were selling nearly half a million. Highest listed Marvel that year on that site was ... Modelling with Millie!!!! (a note - the site has 1966 being the first year that Marvel gave figures for Amazing Spider-Man and Fantastic Four). 

Jumping to 1966, Superman is still selling at around 720k, with Amazing Spider-Man coming in at 340k - getting beat by titles like Betty and Veronica, Archie, Metal Men. All the Batman and Superman titles sold well above Spider-Man and Fantastic Four (330k).

As the years went by, Spider-Man increased sales, and the DC titles decreased, but by the end (near the end?) of the SA in 1969, Spider-Man was still being outsold by Action Comics (barely), Lois Lane, Superboy, and Superman from DC - and Betty and Veronica, and Archie, from Archie Comics.

It’s hard to believe that DC outsold Marvel for the early 60,s but I can understand how 😷

[Gaard]

Was there ever a baby gorilla?

[kav]

12 hours ago, fmaz said:

You can take 30 SA issues of Superman or Batman and shuffle them up like a deck of cards and read them ... and it literally makes almost no impact on the storytelling. Nothing from one issue mattered to the next anyway.   Imagine trying to do that with Marvel books. 
I wonder if, at the time, DC considered the above a “positive” ... or they just were slow to notice what Marvel did and why it was working. 
That, and the gorilla thing. 😄

They outsold Marvel.  Kids like me who couldnt buy comics every single month were forced to buy DC where each issue was complete.

[fmaz]

1 minute ago, kav said:

They outsold Marvel.  Kids like me who couldnt buy comics every single month were forced to buy DC where each issue was complete.

Yeah, my point was... we now look back and see that Marvel clearly had found a better way... those books changed comics.  But DC didn’t change, they were the bigger seller.  So was it because they thought they were right and Marvel was wrong? Or did they just not really notice the change?

[kav]

22 minutes ago, fmaz said:

Yeah, my point was... we now look back and see that Marvel clearly had found a better way... those books changed comics.  But DC didn’t change, they were the bigger seller.  So was it because they thought they were right and Marvel was wrong? Or did they just not really notice the change?

Marvel only changed comics for maybe 15 years.  When they started having characters like rocket racer and big wheel they were in DC ridiculous territory.  

[Ken Aldred]

1 hour ago, kav said:

Marvel only changed comics for maybe 15 years.  When they started having characters like rocket racer and big wheel they were in DC ridiculous territory.  

Technically in that territory from the beginning with characters such as Paste Pot Pete.

[kav]

6 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

Technically in that territory from the beginning with characters such as Paste Pot Pete.

Hey he did change his name!!

[1950's war comics]

at least Marvel didn't have Spider-Baby , Spider-boy , Spider-Grandpa etc.....

[kav]

26 minutes ago, 1950's war comics said:

at least Marvel didn't have Spider-Baby , Spider-boy , Spider-Grandpa etc.....

"Me shoot web and me get pan cakes"

[Ken Aldred]

39 minutes ago, kav said:

Hey he did change his name!!

Yup.

He tried to make his glue gun appear more intimidating by renaming himself The Trapster.

 

[kav]

10 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

Yup.

He tried to make his glue gun appear more intimidating by renaming himself The Trapster.

 

I submit that glue gun nozzle would constantly be getting clogged.  i have dealt with glues.

[1950's war comics]

2 hours ago, kav said:

"Me shoot web and me get pan cakes"

Spider-Dog , Spider-Horse, fatso Spider-man, Spider-Ogre, Spider-Submarine , Spider-747 , Spider-aircraft carrier...    etc.........etc.........

[Ken Aldred]

2 hours ago, kav said:

I submit that glue gun nozzle would constantly be getting clogged.  i have dealt with glues.

But you know that the real reason it didn't is that he was using special Marvel glue.

[kav]

2 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said:

But you know that the real reason it didn't is that he was using special Marvel glue.

You always have a explination!

[kav]

(maybe it was unstable molecules-)

[kav]

[djpinkpanther67]

Marvel did have one SA simian antagonist story that I know of. FF 13 featured the Red Ghost and his Super Apes.

Also 1st appearance of the Watcher 🙂

[Bookery]

19 hours ago, kav said:

They outsold Marvel.  Kids like me who couldnt buy comics every single month were forced to buy DC where each issue was complete.

Precisely.  We lived miles from any newsstands or drugstores.  In the '60s I purchased something from just about every company EXCEPT Marvel.  The few Marvels I owned were bought for me as gifts... I never could figure out what was going on in them since it was smack in the middle of some extended story-line.  Also, it is unfair to claim that the Marvel comics were "better".  DC and Marvel were aimed at totally different audiences.  The Comic Code essentially forced American comics to be geared to younger children, when previously there were titles for all ages.  DC was able to thrive under these conditions.  In the '60s cracks began to ever-so-slowly form in the Code, and Marvel began to veer to more of a teen audience.  But it's tricky to make a qualitative judgment on companies who catered to different clienteles.  Is Wolverine a better comic than Richie Rich?  How so?  And for whom?  Probably not if you're 6 years old.

Marvel didn't work for me at all in the '60s.  By the time I was an early teen (12-14), the audience sought by Marvel, I had moved beyond comics altogether and into the realm of novels.  Why wait to read an epic story that was released over 12 months (no omnibus editions back then), when I could have a 300-page book in front of me all at once?

So who was the smarter company?  Probably Archie, who maintained a massive market throughout that era.

[KirbyJack]

14 hours ago, kav said:

(maybe it was unstable molecules-)

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