Old high grade comics...how the heck did they stay so nice????

[joe_collector]

I know an old dealer (store closed) right here that has a pedigree-level SA/BA collection

 

This is an oxymoron

 

So dealers aren't allowed to buy new comics off the rack? Who instituted that new rule?

 

P.S. That's why I was careful to use "SA/BA" as the Pedigree notation, as the GA is surely from books that walked in.

[comicwiz]

What I find to be absolutely unexplainable is how certain early print underground comix I've acquired from private hands or in collections were in such pristine condition. Nevermind the fact that these were books that were printed in low numbers. Or the fact that their obscurity was further hampered by initiatives to curtail their distribution through random raids by feds of head-shops, which often led to their eventual confiscation and destruction.

 

And its remotely worth mentioning that the quality of production was less than stellar (most of the people involved with their production were too stoned to be concerned about perfect registration, centering or the guts lining-up with the cover -- nor did they have the foresight to please collectors like THE_BEYONDER, who is easily the most obsessed QP collector I've ever known -- sorry buddy, I couldn't resist.

 

And then we have the hand-assembled, hand-cut, hand-stapled and not-so-conventional aspects to touch on (Zap Comix 1 was actually distributed out of a baby-stroller on Haight Street -- a distribution strategy which would help deflect the attention of authorities who would otherwise frown on the subservise and counter-culture nature of the comix being sold). Not to speak about the poor choices made on the quality of the materials they would use for cover stock, or inner-guts (newsprint for inner-guts would consistently guarantee finger smudging of the cover while handling the book during its manual assembly).

 

But the fact that these books were so well-read, and ended-up being lent to friends or used to please all levels of interest from an entertainment value standpoint makes the occurence of these truly magnificent pop-cultural artifacts a staggeringly rare find in high-grade. Say what you will about high-grade Atom, Platinum, GA, or early-1900 sportscards, high-grade early print undergrounds are the thing that still keep that little-boy-in-a-candy-store glare in my eyes whenever I manage to locate one.

[The Black Hand ®]

Joe...what makes you think the supply is so vast? I'm not disputing you, I just can't figure it out. Comic books are so very fragile, and it is hard to believe there were that many people (like Black Hand) buying multiple copies off the newsstand and then somehow finding a way to store them in perfect condition for 30-40 years!

I would say out of my high school population of 300, 5 of us were collecting fanatics. We all bought multiples of certain books, I stored mine by alternating spines to keep them flat in cardboard boxes. I got rid of mine. I don't know what my friends did with theirs.

[The Black Hand ®]

As far as siver age goes, I rember that about the time Spiderman 10 came out, me and my buddies started buying two copies each, one to read and one to save. I iamgine a lot of other people did similar things.By the time Conan 1 came out a friend of mine was buying ten or more copies of some books. Of course I blew my collection as many others did. But a few of those friends I knew didn't. That's one small way to explain bronze and silver in high grade.

 

Hey! What are you doing wandering out of the golden age section! Back to your cage, knave!

Well, you know, I, being a geezer, did actually buy these things when they first came out. Of course a lot of good that did me, other than the fact that I read them with impunity.

[Thegoldenage]

Since the late 60's there have been a lot of collectors buying multiple copies of then new comics and putting them away. It is no surprise that books from that era and newer are common in high grade. What is surprising is that such a small percentage have been graded by CGC.

[underthebigw]

I'm with JC on this, and I know it's an unpopular stance.

 

If nothing changes in the census in the next 10-15 years, then I'll admit I'm wrong. We have an entire generation of collectors from the 1960's and early 70's for whom demographic factors will certainly cause largely unknown collections to come to light. Not only do people not realize the extent to which Americans have treasured pop-culture items since the turn of the century, but once the "nostalgia" craze of the mid '60's-onward kicked in to gear, as well as "radical" thoughts about pop-culture and art of the late '60's and early 70's, you'd be hard-pressed to find any pop-culture item that ever made it to the trash can. By the early-mid 70's, newspapers in the US were rife with articles about "valuable" comics, baseball cards, Disney memorabilia, beer cans, advertising, etc. The combination of inherent appeal and supposed monetary value has led to the widespread hoarding of everything. And, while high-grade items may be rare in proportion to the sheer volume of stuff, the same sheer volume suggests there's more out there than anyone could dream. Will 9.4 FF 1's or Showcase 4's ever be common, no; but will there be more than we ever dreamt, you bet.

 

As an example, just look at ebay. Everyone knows now that very little is rare, and that if you want to wait long enough, you'll eventually pay what you want. Of course, demand prevents this from being true with the "rarer" HG items, but that doesn't mean there isn't more out there.

 

On a personal note, I've been working for years on a collection that I found quite a while ago. It's not OO, but the collector began putting it together in the mid-late 60's. Stuff you wouldn't believe (both in rarity and condition). For a while it looked like he might need to get rid of it. This hasn't panned out. The point is, though, that he's completely off the radar and No One has any idea the collection exists. He can't be the only one.

 

And, to limit this to 9.0 and above is absurd--HG for GA should be at least an 8.0

[AtlasT]

I've been collecting for 30+ years (off and on for 40+ years), and I rarely submit to CGC (except for 3 per year) because of the cost, the delay, and the mixed results. I'll bet there are some amazing collections, virtually forgotten, whose owners have never heard of CGC, and even if they have, would be loathe to invest heavily in something they know little about. Besides, they probably have more pressing issues to attend to, as do certain big-time speculators. But that's another thread.

 

Savez-vous?

[buttock]

I've been collecting for 30+ years (off and on for 40+ years), and I rarely submit to CGC (except for 3 per year) because of the cost, the delay, and the mixed results. I'll bet there are some amazing collections, virtually forgotten, whose owners have never heard of CGC, and even if they have, would be loathe to invest heavily in something they know little about. Besides, they probably have more pressing issues to attend to, as do certain big-time speculators. But that's another thread.

 

Savez-vous?

 

This is VERY true. This board is biased toward CGC graded stuff, and people who tend to buy it are, IMO, more "showy" with their books. Therefore, we hear only about people like Doug Schmell who has a collection assembled largely of pedigree books - in large part, because he wasn't buying them back in the 70s, etc when HG copies were easier to find. There are MANY incredible collections out there that we've never heard of, and probably won't for a while.

[divad]

See ya in 15!

[joe_collector]

There are MANY incredible collections out there that we've never heard of, and probably won't for a while.

 

I think the big players all realize this, but also understand they have a decade or so to move their books and amass a small fortune. Lotsa time left before the boomers start cleaning out the storage rooms.

 

But just like in slabbed sportscards, you do not want to be the guy standing when the music stops.

[Ringfinger]

So, if I was around 50 years ago and bought 10 of every book of personal interest to me, what would be the best way for me to preserve such a collection over the years?

[ArAich]

Old high grade comics...how the heck did they stay so nice?

 

In my case...being a lad with only enough money for 2 comics at a time and a piece of bazooka bubble gum...I actually wrapped a lot of my "nicer" books with a Saran Wrap baggie and sealed it with tape...Years later when I was able to afford bags 'n boards I ended up with a mountain of those baggies but a lot of my books had white pages because of it...

If the grade was "off" it was because I actually read the things before I sealed 'em...

[The Black Hand ®]

There are MANY incredible collections out there that we've never heard of, and probably won't for a while.

 

I think the big players all realize this, but also understand they have a decade or so to move their books and amass a small fortune. Lotsa time left before the boomers start cleaning out the storage rooms.

 

But just like in slabbed sportscards, you do not want to be the guy standing when the music stops.

 

That's why I collect lower grade golden age MLJ and early Archie. They are a bit scarce , I enjoy them and I haven't sunk a but-load of money in them.

[tth2]

It has been much discussed how there are tons of high-grade (9.0 or better) copies available of virtually every Silver and early Bronze book. Whenever I see or hold one of these beauties, it always makes me wonder how it stayed so nice over so many years. I mean, I know there were hundreds of thousands of each copy printed. But, it is not easy to maintain a comic book in nearly perfect condition for decades...especially considering the lack of knowledge and supplies to properly store high-grade comics back in the 60's and early 70's. ..

 

So did that many kids and adults buy perfect books and leave them untouched for all these years? And without the benefit of mylar, full-backs and comic boxes...how did they keep them so nice? Or did most of these nice books come from undistributed warehouse stock? Your thoughts...?

Getting back to the original question, and setting aside questions of scarcity and such that others in this thread have touched on, by far the greatest factor in ensuring a comic survives in pristine condition is you don't move or handle the book.

 

Forget about all the bagging and boarding and proper storage techniques that have been drilled into us (except storing books in a cool, dark place). Bagging and boarding is critical primarily if a book will move around quite a bit. Some of the greatest collections, such as the Church, Reilly, Pacific Coast, etc. were just stacked up over the years and left undisturbed in one place without bags and boards for most of their lives. Similarly, warehouse and file copies often survived in good shape because they sat untouched in one place for years.

 

My impression is most of the great high grade pedigree collections were assembled by adults, who treated the books properly and didn't read them, or if they did read them, did so carefully. There are exceptions such as the Lamont Larson collection, of course, and some of the Reilly collection was apparently purchased and read by Tom Reilly, but most of the really pristine copies from the Reilly collection were purchased by his parents and then stored in his room where they sat untouched and undisturbed for several decades.

[Ringfinger]

Do you wrape in white tissue and then place in bags? I know you do not lay flat, but what woul dbe the best way other than mylites or something like that.

[joe_collector]

So, if I was around 50 years ago and bought 10 of every book of personal interest to me, what would be the best way for me to preserve such a collection over the years?

 

Don't tell Chuck about it.

[Aces]

So, if I was around 50 years ago and bought 10 of every book of personal interest to me, what would be the best way for me to preserve such a collection over the years?

 

Don't tell Chuck about it.

 

 

My 2 cents:

 

There are three major cut-off dates:

 

1945

1965

1975

 

pre-1945:

Very rare in 8.0 and up due to major paper recycling efforts during WWII. Mom would toss out johnny's comics first thing in the paper collection box.

 

1946-1964:

Moderately rare in high grade (8.0-up) outside of warehouse finds. People didn't really start to horde multi copies until 1965.

 

It's just not every day you find a FF 12 VF+ or a Tales to Astonish 2 VF lying around.

 

1965-1974:

You can find almost anything in 9.0-up on the internet, but you will have to pay for key books like ASM 121. People started taking care of their books in large numbers by this time.

 

1975-up

9.4s are everywhere!

Everyone had access to comic bags and boards by 1975, even if those were the bags that turned yellow on you. I started bagging everything by 1975 and I was only 10.

[The Black Hand ®]

I was always taught respect for personal possesions and property and since I loved books and reading I always handled them with care. I used bookmarks and never laid them down open etc. The same with my comics, I loved them like I did my books and treated them well. I hated loaning out books, because people would either not return them or they'd come back dog eared and abused. So call me an anal little bugger, but I was still able to enjoy them.

[AtlasT]

It's just not every day you find a FF 12 VF+ or a Tales to Astonish 2 VF lying around.

 

 

Still looking for that FF12.

[Aces]

I love that ditko cover!