Old high grade comics...how the heck did they stay so nice????

[sfilosa]

Quote:

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Of course I could be wrong and I have no concrete basis for this, but IMO 95% of all OO HG Silver and older books have already hit the market at some point.

 

 

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You really don't believe this, do you?

 

I would say that 95% is probably too high.

 

I would say this, probably 95% of all HG Silver and older books are either in true collector or dealers hands (CGC'd or not). That leaves maybe 5% out there to be "rediscovered".

 

That's not to say 95% have hit the market. It not unreasonable to assume that maybe 50% of these are known about but have not been CGC'd and not available for sale (i.e. a long time collector who has no intention of selling yet).

 

Obviously, as the books get newer, there is a greater and greater chance that there are more collections to be discovered and the books are in higher grade and a better state of preservation.

 

The interesting thing learned from these boards, is that it seems that long-term collectors who haven't CGC'd their collections (and aren't selling them), tend to be Golden Age Collectors.

 

But many of the most well known SA Marvel collectors, have had all of the best books certified. And many long-term collectors have sold (and therefore had CGC'd) their collections over the past few years.

[Ringfinger]

My Grandfathers attic was pitch black and had hepa filters as well as nitrogen flushing and it was airtight. So, you should see his books.

[skybolt]

I'm sure there are plenty of unslabbed GA collections out there, but the question is whether or not these books are in HG condition (8.0 and above) and unrestored. We all know that color touch was pretty rampant with GA books back in the day.

[Inhuman Fiend]

skybolt...that is the basis of my opinion. There are probably a LOT of undiscovered OO collections out there, but NOT in HG. And there are certainly a few undiscovered OO HG collections out there, but not many. I'm certainly not a CGC speculator (I own 7 just slabbed books), but I believe most of the good stuff has already been sold at least once (both raw and slabbed)...although perhaps not recently.

[jokersrevenge]

I have to agree with Joe about numbers of comics. I have stopped buying 9.4 bronze as I think they will be wothless in the coming years. I try to buy 9.8's as they will be at the edge of the bell curve no matter how many comics are graded. Not only due to numbers but also cgc control of the highest grades. Look at some of the highest number graded books, cgc controls the number of books that are allowed to have the highest grades.

[The Black Hand ®]

Oh...and that reminds me of a Church collection question I've often wondered about: If all his books were stored in massive stacks, why didn't they all have rolled spines?

He may have stacked by alternaying the spine to keep them flat and orderly.

[skybolt]

Oh...and that reminds me of a Church collection question I've often wondered about: If all his books were stored in massive stacks, why didn't they all have rolled spines?

He may have stacked by alternaying the spine to keep them flat and orderly.

 

Didn't Timely mention placing some Church books under a lot of weight to get rid of slight spine rolls?

[The Black Hand ®]

The most important factors contributing to their high-grade? (i) Undisturbed for two decades, and (ii) no cheap backboards. The high PQ is almost due entirely to the absence of boards in the bags.

David, it's interesting that you think the older, non-deacidified backboards had that much of an adverse impact on a book's PQ. If everything's kept in a cool and dark place, I just wonder how much impact there really is. After all, the Salida OO wrapped his comics in newspaper, and sometimes the original subscription wrappers, and that obviously didn't impact the PQ very much. Similarly, a lot of warehouse copies were in boxes, and the cardboard and all the gases and acid being emitted didn't seem to impact the PQ significantly.

 

We discussed this aspect of using the traditional non-buffered boards at one of our local comic dinners. I believe the consensus was that they were contributory to PQ degradation because they are typically used in sealed or at least partially-sealed poly bags. The examples you give above do involve off-gassing, but in open environments - not closed environments. Not only are traditionally bagged and boarded books in semi-sealed, closed environments - but each book is individually targeted with a mated off-gassing acidic board.

 

Btw, I've also never been a proponent of vertical storage . . . but don't get me started. Arguably, it is has been only recently, that the comic collecting community has become cognizant and knowledgeable of archival storage methods (me included). I don't take a lot of credit for by books being sustained as well as they were - again it was an "accident" of storage conditions (that I am thankful for).

It took me a while to realise that the most impotant factor in preseving comics is "cool,dark and dry and consistant". Someone once wanted to charge me a 60.00 consulting fee to basically tell me that after trying to scare the hell out of me about what would happen if I didn't get all his information and store my books according to his special secret information.

People will try to scare you so you buy their product. Cool,dark dry and consistant. Compression can also be a good thing. The best Church copies were on the bottom of the stack.Proper handling, no pest and no attics. I imagine if a church cgc'd book were left in a hot attic for a year, there would be some damge to it. Just how much... I don't know.

[Mister_Comics]

. I imagine if a church cgc'd book were left in a hot attic for a year, there would be some damge to it. Just how much... I don't know.

 

Makes me wonder just how much damage is done to all those Pedigrees out in circulation over the years.

[joe_collector]

. I imagine if a church cgc'd book were left in a hot attic for a year, there would be some damge to it. Just how much... I don't know.

 

Makes me wonder just how much damage is done to all those Pedigrees out in circulation over the years.

 

Makes me wonder about all those CGC books all over the world, being stored virtually everywhere from desert-baking heat to swamp-like humidity.

[sfilosa]

Makes me wonder about all those CGC books all over the world, being stored virtually everywhere from desert-baking heat to swamp-like humidity.

 

 

Yeah, except that it's basically in an air tight enviroment and have UV protection.

 

 

 

But facts would screw up all your arguments.

[joe_collector]

Yeah, except that it's basically in an air tight enviroment and have UV protection.

 

But facts would screw up all your arguments.

 

Okay, then put your most valuable CGC comics out in the sun for a few weeks and see if your *facts* bear weight.

[comicwiz]

Yeah, except that it's basically in an air tight enviroment and have UV protection.

 

But facts would screw up all your arguments.

 

Okay, then put your most valuable CGC comics out in the sun for a few weeks and see if your *facts* bear weight.

 

Don't you have an Uncanny X-Men 94 that was sun damaged?

[skybolt]

Yeah, except that it's basically in an air tight enviroment and have UV protection.

 

But facts would screw up all your arguments.

 

Okay, then put your most valuable CGC comics out in the sun for a few weeks and see if your *facts* bear weight.

 

I have to agree with JC on this one. CGC books need to be stored in the same type of conditions as raw books in mylar. Otherwise, your taking a major chance. The main reason I prefer CGC books to raw ones for storage purposes is because I've proven to be a cluts by dropping raw books, or having them lean on each other in the past. I haven't dropped a single CGC book yet.

[burntboy]

Please reread my reply. I am not saying the "supply is so vast" only that there are more 1960's and up comics out there than you can even imagine. How many HG AF 15 copies do you think exist in the entire world? Multiple that figure by 20X or more.

 

 

there are a few "statistics" thrown around in this thread that i take exception to.

 

1st; Inhuman Fiend's thought of 95% of "all HG Silver and older"comics having "come to the market" seems vastly overstated............IMHO.

 

2d; Sfilosa's thought that 95% of all HG SA is in the hands of "true collectors or dealers" also seems a bit too high............IMHO.

 

3d; JC's comment quoted above is, IMHO, totally absurd!!!!!!

 

if I believe that about 2/3's of all HG copies of AF have already been slabbed, and use 8.0 Very Fine as the definition of HG for this universally revered book, it would mean that there are approx an additional 2160 copies of AF #15 in 8.0 or higher out there somewhere...........[embarrassing lack of self control]...................

 

even if i believed that every single HG copy of AF #15 had already been slabbed (which i absolutely do not) and i further restricted the definition of HG to 9.0 and better, it would still mean (according to JC) that i should expect there to be another, as yet, undiscoverd 740 copies of this book out there in 9.0 shape or better.

[OldGuy]

even if i believed that every single HG copy of AF #15 had already been slabbed (which i absolutely do not) and i further restricted the definition of HG to 9.0 and better, it would still mean (according to JC) that i should expect there to be another, as yet, undiscoverd 740 copies of this book out there in 9.0 shape or better.

 

Don't go breaking out the math on JC. He'll start in with things like "way more" and "a bunch" and make you look like a fool.

[joe_collector]

Don't go breaking out the math on JC. He'll start in with things like "way more" and "a bunch" and make you look like a fool.

 

No need, I just have to look at the past, and see how well those "predictions" panned out. Less than 10 Action #1's, anyone?

[joe_collector]

if I believe that about 2/3's of all HG copies of AF have already been slabbed, and use 8.0 Very Fine as the definition of HG for this universally revered book, it would mean that there are approx an additional 2160 copies of AF #15 in 8.0 or higher out there somewhere...........[embarrassing lack of self control]...................

 

even if i believed that every single HG copy of AF #15 had already been slabbed (which i absolutely do not) and i further restricted the definition of HG to 9.0 and better, it would still mean (according to JC) that i should expect there to be another, as yet, undiscoverd 740 copies of this book out there in 9.0 shape or better.

 

Exactly whose butt are you pulling these numbers out of? Check them again, are they brown and smelly?

 

For example, I count 12 CGC 9.0 or better copies in the Census, which would translate into 240 copies using the 20X figure.

[Smokinghawk]

Besides, they probably have more pressing issues to attend to, as do certain big-time speculators.

 

Savez-vous?

 

 

Oh great. Another thread about pressing.

 

[joe_collector]

Yeah, this thread is about PRESSED out and it's probably time to let it devolve into a threat-filled, teeth-bared, all-out forum brawl that it promises to be.