Raw Prices Vs Graded Prices 0

[MARVELous Fan]

Hi,

Can anyone tell me, percentage wise, how much less should a raw copy of a book cost, compared to the same book but in a slabbed grade? 

An example: a 4.0 ASM 4 raw book would be, say, a 20% drop in price, compared to the cost of a 4.0 ASM 4 graded slab.

Does that same percentage drop of 20% stay the same, regardless of what book it is, or it’s age or what character it is (popular or not), as long as it’s the same issue # raw vs slabbed?

So, the above ASM example would be the same 20% drop as a 6.0 Tales of Suspense 39 raw book, compared to the cost of a 6.0 Tales of Suspense 39 graded slab (regardless of whether you think Spider-Man is/isn’t more popular than Iron Man)?

Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

Kind regards,

Andy

Edited March 28, 2021 by MARVELous Fan
Added more words

[Randall Ries]

Great question. It likely depends on the book, I would guess. I am collecting Adams Phantom Stranger covers currently. A raw 9.0 is going between 75-100$ Graded they are 200-300$

That tells me CGC is offering peace of mind in regards to restoration, probable grade and protection from damage by us as collectors. Is it worth a 75% mark up if I am using PS as an example? Not to me. When we buy a graded book, we have to up our eventual selling price because we paid too much for the book in the first place. So, the grading expense is being paid for over and over again. IMO, raw, unrestored books are the actual value of a given book. Of course, some books like Bat 1 or AF 15 are going to write their own checks.

I am beginning to buy raw books if I am reasonably sure they haven't been restored. There are some nice graded 9.8 Adams Phantom Stranger covers for sale on CLINK. Cannot pay $800-$1000 per book. Although I will admit, I would buy their 9.8 #14 since it is a Swamp Thing/Man Thing prototype/tryout. I bought a nice graded signed 7.0 instead.

We even see some price differences between CGC, PGX and CBCS. The latter two being a little less expensive. As a buyer, I try to buy the book in its seeable condition and set aside prejudicial buying. Anything graded is usually going to be more expensive.

[shadroch]

It doesn't work like that. Period. End of story. 

If a raw book is worth $10, how can you think a graded book would be worth 

$12, when it cost about $30 to get it graded. 

If a graded Batman 1 sells for $500,000, why would a raw copy sell for $100,000 less when the only difference is a $100 slab?

Many books that are graded won't bring the cost of grading, let alone the price of the the raw book plus the grading fees.

If a dealer is known for their tight grading, a raw book they call a 4.0 might sell for more than a CGC 4.0 of the same book.

In short, there is no easy answer.

[theCapraAegagrus]

Each product has its own supply, and its own demand.

[Randall Ries]

20 hours ago, shadroch said:

It doesn't work like that. Period. End of story. 

If a raw book is worth $10, how can you think a graded book would be worth 

$12, when it cost about $30 to get it graded. 

If a graded Batman 1 sells for $500,000, why would a raw copy sell for $100,000 less when the only difference is a $100 slab?

Many books that are graded won't bring the cost of grading, let alone the price of the the raw book plus the grading fees.

If a dealer is known for their tight grading, a raw book they call a 4.0 might sell for more than a CGC 4.0 of the same book.

In short, there is no easy answer.

I recommend comparing slabbed prices v raw prices. Very clearly, there is sometimes a VAST difference in pricing. Of course (as I mentioned earlier), some books like Bat 1 or AF 15 will write their own tickets. By and large, slabs always are priced higher than their ungraded counterparts. If they weren't, this guy wouldn't be starting to look at raw books.

[Randall Ries]

Here is a basic example. Here we have Phantom Stranger 3. Let's just at least TRY to assume they are both 9.2 as listed by Metro and the grader from CGC and TRY to assume the raw is unrestored. There is very little difference between the two books. There is more than a $100 difference. This is just one example. Ungraded Metro is $120. Graded eBay is $225. You can say "Yeah but FEES" and the fact remains. Graded gives us the warm fuzzies and we pay for those fuzzies. And so does the next collector when we go and sell. Seems like NO ONE sells for FMV. I have put bids in as FMV for graded books that were $200 less than what the seller wanted and got shot down every single time.

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Randall Ries

[Moe's Attic]

I find this a very interesting topic. This may actually motivate me to create the blog/video on comic book grading that I've always wanted to do.   

Graded VS Raw: is there a difference in price? Of course there is. But not always what you may think. As an experienced comic book dealer, I have learned quite a bit about this. I used to under grade my comics and as a result other customers and dealers would buy from me, submit the books and reep the benefits of a higher grade. One dealer used to say, "I love finding your mistakes". I learned my lesson and am very tight on grading now.  In those days my raw books should have been priced higher than the CGC equivalents in my advertized grade. The opposite is true as well for over-graded raw books in which the prices are way above CGC accurately graded comics.  When I grade a raw comic now, it will be priced based on several factors - one of which is an average sales price on recent stats. But if I have 12 copies of a particular comic, even graded ones, I am more likely to price it lower based on supply. Another factor is what I would call an "almost grade". This is a lot more evident in high grade comics in which the price increase is significant. If I have a CGC book graded 9.2 it actually could be "almost" a 9.4. Since the comics are never rounded up, you can have a low 9.2 and a high 9.2. Since there is no 9.3, there is no way of knowing. But a raw book can be viewed and graded accordingly resulting in significant price differences. For example, if I have a Hulk 181 CGC 9.2 with a few colour breaks in the spine I may also have a raw Hulk 181 in 9.2+ with only a soft corner that would be valued a lot more but not quite a 9.4. Finally, there is a sense of security with a graded comic since it goes through a process. Some collectors/dealers do not like the responsibility of grading and doing restoration checks. There can be hidden defects within a graded comic that a purchaser may never know that would otherwise be observed in a raw comic. As the buyer of a slabbed comic, you accept this possibility. 

Like I said, a very interesting topic.

[shadroch]

 A book graded 6.0 by Bob Storms would have me bidding higher than a book graded 6.0 by some great metropolitan comic dealer while I'd bid more for a mycomicshop raw 6.0 than many CGC 6.0s.

There is no mysterious formula to determine the difference. 

[The Less Blob]

Even putting aside potential differences in the raw grade between sellers, this is totally a book by book analysis. There are books where I see raw "high grade" copies, surprisingly, selling for 40-50% of slabbed 9.8 prices (spawn 174 might be an example), and other books where the 9.8 is 100X what we see raw "high grade" copies selling for (now that so many 9.8s seem to have crossed into the $250 range, when that used to be a big deal)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Spider-man-Annual-27-CGC-9-8/353428402113?hash=item5249f96fc1:g:a~oAAOSw2ndgV9R-

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Spider-Man-Annual-27-CGC-9-8-First-Appearance-of-Annex-/224390598295?hash=item343eb8ce97%3Ag%3ApoAAAOSwT-RgUsKn&nma=true&si=BZbpsjZvXBDBh7scMVfgI%2BAabNw%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557  ($300 sale)

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Spider-Man-Annual-27-Marvel-1993-NEW-SEALED-1st-Appearance-of-Annex/323681450364?hash=item4b5ceaf97c:g:IewAAOSwB0lcWS32

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMAZING-SPIDER-MAN-ANNUAL-27-BAGGED-W-Cards-MARVEL-COMICS-1993-NM/353258556319?hash=item523fd9cb9f:g:q2AAAOSwNmVfnh4~

this happens to be one egregious example, but there are plenty more where you see that $15 "super high grade" copies raw and a CGC 9.8 20-50X more

 

[Randall Ries]

4 hours ago, shadroch said:

 A book graded 6.0 by Bob Storms would have me bidding higher than a book graded 6.0 by some great metropolitan comic dealer while I'd bid more for a mycomicshop raw 6.0 than many CGC 6.0s.

There is no mysterious formula to determine the difference. 

I looked at the raw Phantom Stranger 3 and agreed it fit my definition of a lower end 9.2. I've seen things on ebay graded near mint and obviously they were 5.0 or lower sometimes. Plus I am talking about buying and not bidding.

If I can get a book in the same basic high grade and save a couple hundred, then I'm going to. Other books like major keys I buy graded. But if I saw a Bat 227 that was actually NM, was raw and selling for $300 less, MINE! But again. Some books are going to be priced the same if they are a highly sought out book raw or graded. The only wild card is whether or not they have any restoration. That part creeps me out a bit. I can handle a little black line color touch but not pieces of the cover replaced and more paint on it than the Mona Lisa. I figure I'm safe if I am thinking about  Brave and the Bold 114 v Bat 9.

[Randall Ries]

18 minutes ago, the blob said:

Even putting aside potential differences in the raw grade between sellers, this is totally a book by book analysis. There are books where I see raw "high grade" copies, surprisingly, selling for 40-50% of slabbed 9.8 prices (spawn 174 might be an example), and other books where the 9.8 is 100X what we see raw "high grade" copies selling for (now that so many 9.8s seem to have crossed into the $250 range, when that used to be a big deal)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Spider-man-Annual-27-CGC-9-8/353428402113?hash=item5249f96fc1:g:a~oAAOSw2ndgV9R-

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Spider-Man-Annual-27-CGC-9-8-First-Appearance-of-Annex-/224390598295?hash=item343eb8ce97%3Ag%3ApoAAAOSwT-RgUsKn&nma=true&si=BZbpsjZvXBDBh7scMVfgI%2BAabNw%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557  ($300 sale)

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Spider-Man-Annual-27-Marvel-1993-NEW-SEALED-1st-Appearance-of-Annex/323681450364?hash=item4b5ceaf97c:g:IewAAOSwB0lcWS32

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMAZING-SPIDER-MAN-ANNUAL-27-BAGGED-W-Cards-MARVEL-COMICS-1993-NM/353258556319?hash=item523fd9cb9f:g:q2AAAOSwNmVfnh4~

this happens to be one egregious example, but there are plenty more where you see that $15 "super high grade" copies raw and a CGC 9.8 20-50X more

 

YOW! I figure it's up to me to decide what I think a raw 9.8 should look like. Corners mashed in? No. Teeny little bends in the spine? No. Not even for $5. 

Haha. "Annex". Run out of names to give to characters? How about "Sundeck"? Or "Behold! The Frightening FOYER!"

"TREMBLE BEFORE MY MIGHTY MIGHTINESS! FOR I AM SUN PORCH! FEEL THE VITAMIN A FLOWING THROUGH YOU! SMELL THE FAINT AROMA OF MY FEARSOME GERANIUMS!"

When I was a teenager, it was sound effects. They ran out of adjective to describe fist connecting with flesh. My favorite was "BRACK-A-DOOOOM!" LOL!

Yeah. Maybe getting too old to read these things.

[The Less Blob]

1 hour ago, Randall Ries said:

YOW! I figure it's up to me to decide what I think a raw 9.8 should look like. Corners mashed in? No. Teeny little bends in the spine? No. Not even for $5. 

Haha. "Annex". Run out of names to give to characters? How about "Sundeck"? Or "Behold! The Frightening FOYER!"

"TREMBLE BEFORE MY MIGHTY MIGHTINESS! FOR I AM SUN PORCH! FEEL THE VITAMIN A FLOWING THROUGH YOU! SMELL THE FAINT AROMA OF MY FEARSOME GERANIUMS!"

When I was a teenager, it was sound effects. They ran out of adjective to describe fist connecting with flesh. My favorite was "BRACK-A-DOOOOM!" LOL!

Yeah. Maybe getting too old to read these things.

I can't deduce anything from those pics of books in polybags. I'd never assume anything is better than  VF anyway.

My point is, worthless junk can now be turned into a 9.8 and is worth a nice chunk. There is no ratio. Plenty of similarly worthless stuff is only "worth" $30-50 in 9.8. Quite possibly it only occurred to two people to slab that particular book (too lazy to look in the census). 

 

[serling1978]

On 3/29/2021 at 9:19 AM, Randall Ries said:

Seems like NO ONE sells for FMV. I have put bids in as FMV for graded books that were $200 less than what the seller wanted and got shot down every single time.

 

 

 

No truer statement has ever been uttered. Just finding someone selling a book for what it's currently worth at the time involves a ton of work and luck. I won't go on a tangent but I think that is often times due to flipping. The seller needs to create room to pay fees (if applicable) and make a profit. So FMV won't fly. 

[Randall Ries]

7 minutes ago, serling1978 said:

No truer statement has ever been uttered. Just finding someone selling a book for what it's currently worth at the time involves a ton of work and luck. I won't go on a tangent but I think that is often times due to flipping. The seller needs to create room to pay fees (if applicable) and make a profit. So FMV won't fly. 

Thanks for that. Nice to see a response that isn't explaining to me how stupid I am and go collect coins instead. LOL!

Isn't it always the way, though? When we involve middle men in our business affairs, pricing always goes up. That's what terrified(s) me about Obamacare. Not the fact that it was an (half hearted) attempt to provide everyone with health insurance, but the fact that it sewed us to private insurance companies and their policies whether we liked and could afford it or not.

I'd like to see an apples and oranges spread sheet of sales figures here in the For Sale forum v eBay, HA, CLINK and Metropolis Comics. See if people are getting treated more fairly here than other places who take a pinch or two of our profits. It's fee to advertise here, right?

[djzombi]

On 3/29/2021 at 7:40 AM, Angel of Death said:

Each product has its own supply, and its own demand.

 

[djzombi]

THIS

On 3/29/2021 at 7:40 AM, Angel of Death said:

Each product has its own supply, and its own demand.