What is a fair market value for Wolverine Limited Series #1 cgc 9.8 0

[KCOComics]

10 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

 

Problem is - like ASM 252 or Spectacular Spider-Man 1 or Spawn 1, they're *everywhere.*

Yup - this book was everywhere. I never set out to buy a copy, yet I've owned several.  You would see a dozen copies at every show and at many shops. It was just everywhere. 

 

[ExNihilo]

34 minutes ago, Sky1 said:

Rinse, repeat until collecting comics just becomes a celebrity trend like buying dinosaur fossils or time shares (I dunno what celebrities buy)

Yes, that was evident when you suggested celebrities were buying time shares.  

Do you think George Clooney and the rest of the Oceans 11 gang split his Lake Como mansion weekly or monthly?  

[thehumantorch]

3 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

Yup - this book was everywhere. I never set out to buy a copy, yet I've owned several.  You would see a dozen copies at every show and at many shops. It was just everywhere. 

 

I've owned many copies of all.  And yes, I don't really set out to buy them but they seem to be in every collection and are offered to me often.  These are books I take to shows to sell because they are popular and are the iconic books of that generation.  I know there will many other copies at a show and it will come down to who has the right grade at the right price. 

Generally, I like to take books to shows to sell that aren't common and I'm likely to have the only copy in the room and a buyer who need that book won't have any other option.

[ExNihilo]

2 hours ago, LoST Ups said:

The 90s? 

If you're 22, you're old (apparently).

[Gatsby77]

See a lot of newbs on this thread.

A poster above notes that 3 years ago raw 9.2-9.6 copies of this book went for ~$50 shipped. That's correct.

More importantly, just two years ago (i.e., spring 2019), slabbed 9.8s were going for $275 -- or just under $300 shipped.

Now we're supposed to believe the book's sustainably worth $1,000? And that this price will seem cheap in two years? Good luck with that,

I just don't see that a Disney+ anthology show (or even 9th movie) featuring Wovie will result in a huge new influx of fans. Folks know who he is -- this is the polar opposite of Tales of Suspense 39 in 2007 before the release of Iron Man -- or even Special Marvel Edition 15 before last week, with the release of the Shang-Chi trailer. In each of those cases, the film trailer (and subsequent movie) introduced the character to a broad audience.

But somehow a 9th Wolverine -- or 8th X-Men movie, is supposed to make this book skyrocket?

I just don't see it.

[Tcla75]

So right now I'm trying to decide whether to go for a wolverine 9.8 white pages for $1200 or a run of wolverine 1-4 9.6 white pages for $999. Is that a good deal for the 1st 4 copies of wolverine? There seems to be far less graded issues from 2-4.

[revat]

3 hours ago, Tcla75 said:

So right now I'm trying to decide whether to go for a wolverine 9.8 white pages for $1200 or a run of wolverine 1-4 9.6 white pages for $999. Is that a good deal for the 1st 4 copies of wolverine? There seems to be far less graded issues from 2-4.

Lay out the research you’ve done into the pricing histories of your choices.  List your pro’s and cons of why you would choose one over the other, whether they’re financial or personal. 
 

people have generously given lots of great and occasionally conflicting advice, but they’re not magicians and fortune tellers, and their time and experience and wisdom has actual financial value and was gained over years with passion and experience.  
 

my point is, do some of the work yourself to help others help you.  

[ExNihilo]

2 hours ago, revat said:

my point is, do some of the work yourself to help others help you.  

[Tcla75]

2 hours ago, revat said:

Lay out the research you’ve done into the pricing histories of your choices.  List your pro’s and cons of why you would choose one over the other, whether they’re financial or personal. 
 

people have generously given lots of great and occasionally conflicting advice, but they’re not magicians and fortune tellers, and their time and experience and wisdom has actual financial value and was gained over years with passion and experience.  
 

my point is, do some of the work yourself to help others help you.  

Good points there let me answer.

"Lay out the research you’ve done into the pricing histories of your choices."

I've looked at sites like comics.gocollect.com to see what the current value of the books are but having checked a few other key titles it seems to show less value than what is actually being sold now so I guess that site is a little out of date with it's prices. I've looked at ebay prices over the last few months and compared then to other auction sites and the prices seem to be the same so unless a graded copy pops up here then it looks like I'll be buying on ebay. 

 

"List your pro’s and cons of why you would choose one over the other, whether they’re financial or personal."

They are both financial and personal. As I said my kids can sell it off after I die and I want them to be able to get the most money so I'm trying to figure out if in 40 years will more people have a run of 1-4 with a grade like 9.6 or just have a high grade 1 at 9.8. As for personal I want something in my collection that years from now I can look at and say not many people would be able to get/Afford this and I don't know if that would be a copy of 1 at 9.8 or a run of 1-4 at 9.6.

[Gatsby77]

Honestly, for pure investment sake, I'd get # 1 in 9.6 (x 3) for $900 (if you're patient) or $1,000 total (if you're not).

Because over time, the 9.6 : 9.8 price ratio will close up again.

It's common in both grades. I can't see justifying a 3.5x or 4.0x multiple for 9.8 over 9.6 when there are 30 copies above 9.8 out there already.

 

[Tcla75]

3 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Honestly, for pure investment sake, I'd get # 1 in 9.6 (x 3) for $900 (if you're patient) or $1,000 total (if you're not).

Because over time, the 9.6 : 9.8 price ratio will close up again.

It's common in both grades. I can't see justifying a 3.5x or 4.0x multiple for 9.8 over 9.6 when there are 30 copies above 9.8 out there already.

 

That's a good point current GCG grading might not be as important years down the line just the quality of the book and right now the difference between some 9.6 and a 9.8 could be how good or bad a mood the grader was when he went graded it. Now I know there are guidelines they follow for grading  but we are all only human at the end of the day and if the difference is minute then the mood of the grader could come into play also.

[ExNihilo]

Serious question for everyone out there, is Wolverine #1 really the book you would be spending money on as an "investment"?  I get that it's a loaded question because a lot of it has to do with whether or not the character/book has any personal connection to you, but as an outsider looking in, is Wolverine #1 high on the list of books you would recommend?  I assume that Wolverine is OP's favorite character judging by the avatar photo.  Though as I say that, I realize how foolish an assumption that is because ExNihilo isn't my favorite character despite being my avatar photo, but I digress.  For the sake of discussion, let's say Wolverine is OP's favorite, would you really suggest this miniseries over the best raw/graded copy of something like IH 180 of equivalent value?  If you're going to pass a book on to next of kin, wouldn't you rather pass down a 1st appearance (in cameo) over a 1st solo series?  Let's also factor in what's been pointed out, supply and demand.  The run up in book values across the board has seen deserving AND undeserving books get bumped up.  No one knows which book falls in which category and whether values will rise or fall post-covid, but we know that supply of high grade copies of #1 is rather common.  And we know that demand prior to covid was low relative to available supply.  So what's changed?  Wolverine's impending debut in the MCU?  Sure, that'll warrant a bump in value, but historically, the book that gets the biggest bump is usually the 1st appearance.

Look, at the end of the day, always buy the book that makes you happy.  I'm not trying to dissuade that, but I think we've seen a lot of new collectors jump into the market of late and overpay for something or buy a book they don't truly understand.  All I'm saying is I really think new collectors need to do the due diligence, consider the opportunity costs, and really ask themselves why they're buying a particular book.  If the immediate answer is "prices are going up so I should buy now" then I think that's the wrong approach.

[thehumantorch]

3 minutes ago, ExNihilo said:

Serious question for everyone out there, is Wolverine #1 really the book you would be spending money on as an "investment"?  I get that it's a loaded question because a lot of it has to do with whether or not the character/book has any personal connection to you, but as an outsider looking in, is Wolverine #1 high on the list of books you would recommend?  I assume that Wolverine is OP's favorite character judging by the avatar photo.  Though as I say that, I realize how foolish an assumption that is because ExNihilo isn't my favorite character despite being my avatar photo, but I digress.  For the sake of discussion, let's say Wolverine is OP's favorite, would you really suggest this miniseries over the best raw/graded copy of something like IH 180 of equivalent value?  If you're going to pass a book on to next of kin, wouldn't you rather pass down a 1st appearance (in cameo) over a 1st solo series?  Let's also factor in what's been pointed out, supply and demand.  The run up in book values across the board has seen deserving AND undeserving books get bumped up.  No one knows which book falls in which category and whether values will rise or fall post-covid, but we know that supply of high grade copies of #1 is rather common.  And we know that demand prior to covid was low relative to available supply.  So what's changed?  Wolverine's impending debut in the MCU?  Sure, that'll warrant a bump in value, but historically, the book that gets the biggest bump is usually the 1st appearance.

Look, at the end of the day, always buy the book that makes you happy.  I'm not trying to dissuade that, but I think we've seen a lot of new collectors jump into the market of late and overpay for something or buy a book they don't truly understand.  All I'm saying is I really think new collectors need to do the due diligence, consider the opportunity costs, and really ask themselves why they're buying a particular book.  If the immediate answer is "prices are going up so I should buy now" then I think that's the wrong approach.

It's an iconic cover that connects with a lot of collectors from that time period but it's very common.  I think the price its selling for now is crazy and I don't think it's sustainable but we will see.  

[shadroch]

Unless the person you leave it to is a comic fan, all they will care about is what is is worth. 

Do you make your investments based on what the person who inherits it will think about it?  If so, you are doing it wrong. 

In stocks, I buy blue chips.  Same with comics. If you don't think Wolverine 1 is a blue chip, we obviously see things very differently. 

 

[Sky1]

39 minutes ago, ExNihilo said:

Serious question for everyone out there, is Wolverine #1 really the book you would be spending money on as an "investment"?

No, in fact it's the ONLY book I was willing to sell from my personal collection in this high demand seller's market.  With that said I 100% feel like the current prices now are here to stay tho.  It will go up then come back down to it's current price as the new normal.  That one guy talking about a trailer will not create buzz failed to realize this will be Wolverine's first MCU appearance with a new actor on top of many MCU fans probably not being born when the first X-Men movie came out so this might be their 1st introduction.  It will never be $500 again, but still not a worthy "investment" imo as there are better keys to buy with 1.5k.

Not many GRADED 9.8 KEY slabs sky rocket in prices & come back down.

1st Spidergwen still sells for 2k despite the movie being out for over 3 years.  You guys seriously telling me if I wait 5 years it will be back down to $300 again?  The "vets/experts" that are here, tell me when has this ever happened?  I haven't been collecting long enough but I can tell you the few years I have, I've only seen prices go up on keys.

[Sky1]

I sold it because I had no personal attachment to it because it came out way before my time.  Not really iconic to me

[Gatsby77]

1 hour ago, Sky1 said:

No, in fact it's the ONLY book I was willing to sell from my personal collection in this high demand seller's market.  With that said I 100% feel like the current prices now are here to stay tho.  It will go up then come back down to it's current price as the new normal.  That one guy talking about a trailer will not create buzz failed to realize this will be Wolverine's first MCU appearance with a new actor on top of many MCU fans probably not being born when the first X-Men movie came out so this might be their 1st introduction.  It will never be $500 again, but still not a worthy "investment" imo as there are better keys to buy with 1.5k.

Not many GRADED 9.8 KEY slabs sky rocket in prices & come back down.

1st Spidergwen still sells for 2k despite the movie being out for over 3 years.  You guys seriously telling me if I wait 5 years it will be back down to $300 again?  The "vets/experts" that are here, tell me when has this ever happened?  I haven't been collecting long enough but I can tell you the few years I have, I've only seen prices go up on keys.

Well, yes. As "that one guy talking about how a trailer will not create buzz," I feel obliged to answer.

I've been collecting comic books since 1989, and Wolverine was my favorite character.

My first issue of Wolverine off the rack was # 17 - with its now-classic John Byrne cover. It was the first series where I specifically went back and finished to # 1. My copy of (ongoing) # 1 is signed and personalized to me by the inker, Al Williamson. My copy of Hulk 180 is signed and personalized to me by original artist Herb Trimpe (may they both Rest in Peace). I continued buying - and reading - the title off the rack through issue # 81, when it rose to $1.95 cover.

And yes - in those 30+ years of collecting, I've seen keys fall as well as rise -- even ASM 129 - first appearance of the Punisher, which lost 2/3rds of its value in the the late 90s, with Near Mint copies falling from $300 to $100. Even TMNT # 1 fell out of favor around this time period, falling from ~$400 to $150 in FMV.

I don't believe Wolverine Ltd. Series 1 is a legitimate $1,000 book.

It may not fall back to $500 in 9.8, but I certainly believe it will fall back down to $600-$650. We'll see a year from now.

Again, it's hard for folks who haven't been in this game awhile to understand just how common this book is. Weirdly, Ltd. Series # 1 (1982) is easier to find in 9.8 than the 1988 (ongoing) # 1.

And multiple people on this thread (myself included) have noted how we never had to even seek out the Limited Series, because we'd naturally find them in any collection of '80s books, often in bulk.

There are literally more copies of this book in CGC 9.8 than the entire print run of TMNT # 1, and for a long time, it was the most slabbed CGC book on the planet.

[ExNihilo]

39 minutes ago, shadroch said:

Do you make your investments based on what the person who inherits it will think about it?  If so, you are doing it wrong. 

I dunno.  I've never thought of my comics as investments because largely collecting in the 90s has taught me my books are mostly worthless.  With the exception of the second copy of FF48 I purchased recently, I've never purchased any book with the sole intent of using it as an investment vehicle.  It was only recently when I created a living trust that I started to think about what I should do with my collection.  I'm not entirely sure it's fair to equate comic collections to other investments though.  There's a measure of "goodwill".  If your parents pass their house to you, do you only consider the value?  Or does a part of you think of it as a family home?  Of the childhood memories you and your siblings had while growing up?  To a lesser extent, comics are the same to me.  When my dad is gone, his books are a reflection of who he was and his interests.  To your point, it's an unfair comparison as I'm a collector myself.

1 hour ago, shadroch said:

In stocks, I buy blue chips.  Same with comics. If you don't think Wolverine 1 is a blue chip, we obviously see things very differently.

I think I have a much narrower view of what is a "blue chip" stock/book.  For example, Chevron and Wells Fargo fit the definition of a blue chip stock, but it doesn't mean I prioritize buying those over other stocks.  Similarly in this instance, there are just other books I would rather buy than Wolverine #1.  Other books I would consider to pass on to my children.  And I think that's my main point.  While a lot of new investors are diving head long into the hobby, I just want to make sure that new people approach it by weighing their options.  Considering what else might be out there.  And if OP still wants Wolverine #1, and they want it for the right reasons, then go for it.

[ExNihilo]

14 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

It may not fall back to $500 in 9.8, but I certainly believe it will fall back down to $600-$650. We'll see a year from now.

I agree that this is the trend we'll probably see in the market over the next year or two.  I think the market will eventually cool, but I don't expect prices to drop back down to pre-covid levels.  The exception to this would be character 1st appearances when a new movie is announced.

[Sky1]

33 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Well, yes. As "that one guy talking about how a trailer will not create buzz," I feel obliged to answer.

I've been collecting comic books since 1989, and Wolverine was my favorite character.

My first issue of Wolverine off the rack was # 17 - with its now-classic John Byrne cover. It was the first series where I specifically went back and finished to # 1. My copy of (ongoing) # 1 is signed and personalized to me by the inker, Al Williamson. My copy of Hulk 180 is signed and personalized to me by original artist Herb Trimpe (may they both Rest in Peace). I continued buying - and reading - the title off the rack through issue # 81, when it rose to $1.95 cover.

And yes - in those 30+ years of collecting, I've seen keys fall as well as rise -- even ASM 129 - first appearance of the Punisher, which lost 2/3rds of its value in the the late 90s, with Near Mint copies falling from $300 to $100. Even TMNT # 1 fell out of favor around this time period, falling from ~$400 to $150 in FMV.

I don't believe Wolverine Ltd. Series 1 is a legitimate $1,000 book.

It may not fall back to $500 in 9.8, but I certainly believe it will fall back down to $600-$650. We'll see a year from now.

Again, it's hard for folks who haven't been in this game awhile to understand just how common this book is. Weirdly, Ltd. Series # 1 (1982) is easier to find in 9.8 than the 1988 (ongoing) # 1.

And multiple people on this thread (myself included) have noted how we never had to even seek out the Limited Series, because we'd naturally find them in any collection of '80s books, often in bulk.

There are literally more copies of this book in CGC 9.8 than the entire print run of TMNT # 1, and for a long time, it was the most slabbed CGC book on the planet.

to your copy of 180!  Even signed by the creators of Wolvie too.  Not trying to derail the thread but I am on the side where I consider that his first appearance & would be after a copy of that first before 181.

Thanks for the examples, it gives me & hope that prices can fall.  I still feel like it's unlikely but at least you can show that it does happen.  I do agree that the book is not worth 1k (even more so now that you mentioned how common it is) but I just sold mine for over that so people are out there paying that price for it.  Until buyers smarten up & sellers are willing to understand flukes can happen, these prices will be around for a while.  Just can't see either happening.  Even if I wanted to sell some stuff now I wouldn't lowball it so I understand what sellers are doing.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Sky1