What is a fair market value for Wolverine Limited Series #1 cgc 9.8 0

[William-James88]

5 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said:

Yup

Part of the problem with the market. A lot of "new" collectors (new to me meaning collectors who have started doing so within the last decade or so) just see an announcement or someone on social media platforms leak or rumour or speculate and BAM, they feel the need to have and buy. 

For example. Wandavision. Back in oh October of last year...was anyone a "fan" of White Vision? No

Show comes, that version appears and wham...a dollar or so book is being sold for hundreds of dollars. These "instant" fans and (forgive me new collectors) somewhat unsavvy speculators just act before they think. Not all, but enough that it has caused a LOT of spikes in books that really don't deserve it. At least not to the degree we are seeing. 

Record sales for classic books? Sure. Record sales for high grade books of key characters like Hulk 181? Sure. This kind of stuff? No. And hey, maybe I am wrong and kick myself in 10 years when West Coast Avengers 45 is a $1000 book. I will admit defeat. 

I am very curious to see where things line up later. Especially for books like that. I am assuming that because many of these books are modern, they are in lots of collections of fans who still have their comics from when they were young and thus the market is not flooded with them, which means that the sudden increase in demand will create a crazy change in price. Not sure how long this situation for any book will be maintained and until when it simply becomes speculators selling to speculators. I wasn't around in the last comics speculator boom and crash (well I was around just not collecting), so I wonder if this is giving anyone flashbacks to that time.

[comicginger1789]

24 minutes ago, William-James88 said:

I am very curious to see where things line up later. Especially for books like that. I am assuming that because many of these books are modern, they are in lots of collections of fans who still have their comics from when they were young and thus the market is not flooded with them, which means that the sudden increase in demand will create a crazy change in price. Not sure how long this situation for any book will be maintained and until when it simply becomes speculators selling to speculators. I wasn't around in the last comics speculator boom and crash (well I was around just not collecting), so I wonder if this is giving anyone flashbacks to that time.

I am also curious. If a crash happened, I would feel fine because I have always bought for myself and my collection first and while I am sure I have books that could take a hit, I never paid much for them (or I sold comic to buy the comics so it is all a wash). I know there would be a LOT of new collectors (many of whom seem to survive from paycheck to paycheck and try to press and flip books) that might get hurt, thus eliminating what I think is a decent chunk of the demand.

For perspective...I bought a collection off a guy recently who bought back stock from a shop that shutdown in the late 90s. The prices on some of those books were equal to (or less) than what they sell for today (ex. Batman/Spawn has a price of $120 on it). Killing Joke was priced at $75. Batman Death In The Family issues were priced $25-30 a pop. And really, these books are still close to that in value today. Now maybe that shop closed because these prices were extremely aggressive then but I have reason to believe that is what some of these books went for back then too. 

[BoogieWoogie]

2 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said:

I am also curious. If a crash happened, I would feel fine because I have always bought for myself and my collection first and while I am sure I have books that could take a hit, I never paid much for them (or I sold comic to buy the comics so it is all a wash). I know there would be a LOT of new collectors (many of whom seem to survive from paycheck to paycheck and try to press and flip books) that might get hurt, thus eliminating what I think is a decent chunk of the demand.

For perspective...I bought a collection off a guy recently who bought back stock from a shop that shutdown in the late 90s. The prices on some of those books were equal to (or less) than what they sell for today (ex. Batman/Spawn has a price of $120 on it). Killing Joke was priced at $75. Batman Death In The Family issues were priced $25-30 a pop. And really, these books are still close to that in value today. Now maybe that shop closed because these prices were extremely aggressive then but I have reason to believe that is what some of these books went for back then too. 

The late 90s is when I was collecting pretty actively as a kid and those prices were high for the late 90s. The Death in the Family issues were around $10 a pop and I picked them up because Wizard ran a story on them and my LCS had them. I would say those were pretty aggressive prices for the late 90s unless it's a major city or something. I DID grow up in a small town. No Mellencamp. Same state though.

[ExNihilo]

4 hours ago, Tcla75 said:

If I was going to get a non graded version what would be the best way to go about it. I live in Ireland so you will never see them pop up in real life so online would be my only option. Would it be possible to tell the difference between a 9.6 and a 9.8 from pictures alone?

Edit: As an example there is this listing where the seller is saying its a 9.8/9.9 grade but it looks bent in the middle so I highly doubt it would be that grade. Would this be a 9.6 or can you not tell from the pictures?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WOLVERINE-1-LIMITED-SERIES-9-8-9-9-NM-MINT-WHITE-PAGES-IST-SOLO-WOLVERINE/143175645955?hash=item2155eefb03:g:eO0AAOSw0dFcjlFZ

I wouldn't trust anyone who claims their book is a 9.9.

55 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Yeah yeah demand...but this book was hoarded upon release and is the opposite of rare - even nearly 40 years later.

I must be the exception.  In my 30 years of collecting, I've never thought "oh, I want this book."  And even now, I still don't want it.  I don't understand the run up in price beyond the fact that all collectibles are rising as a result of some people having extra money to spend because they've been stuck at home the last 14 months.  Once people start traveling again and expenses shift back to outdoor activities/vacations, I think we'll see the prices of some books fall back down.  I expect this book to come back down as it's not a key.

[shadroch]

How do you figure it's not a key? What is a key if not this?

[BoogieWoogie]

1 minute ago, shadroch said:

How do you figure it's not a key? What is a key if not this?

I've always considered first solo issue a minor key sorta deal and still do. Is Marvel Super Heroes #20 no longer a big deal?

Because if anyone has a high grade copy that they want to get rid of... a worthless first DOOM solo story... I'm your huckleberry  

[Gatsby77]

4 minutes ago, ExNihilo said:

I must be the exception.  In my 30 years of collecting, I've never thought "oh, I want this book."  And even now, I still don't want it.  I don't understand the run up in price beyond the fact that all collectibles are rising as a result of some people having extra money to spend because they've been stuck at home the last 14 months.  Once people start traveling again and expenses shift back to outdoor activities/vacations, I think we'll see the prices of some books fall back down.  I expect this book to come back down as it's not a key.

Half right.

I'm with you that in my (also) 30+ years of collecting, I've never thought "oh, I want this book." But at one point I owned 7 raw copies in 9.0-9.8 because literally *every* 80s collection you find has this miniseries in it -- far more often than you'd find the Punisher mini from a few years later.

So every time I bought any issue of the Wolvie mini, it was always an incidental part of a bulk buy.

But it is *absolutely* key. Classic character, cover and story - and what made Wolverine a superstar, far beyond what Byrne and Claremont had been doing with him in the Uncanny run.

Problem is - like ASM 252 or Spectacular Spider-Man 1 or Spawn 1, they're *everywhere.*

[William-James88]

13 minutes ago, ExNihilo said:

I wouldn't trust anyone who claims their book is a 9.9.

I must be the exception.  In my 30 years of collecting, I've never thought "oh, I want this book."  And even now, I still don't want it.  I don't understand the run up in price beyond the fact that all collectibles are rising as a result of some people having extra money to spend because they've been stuck at home the last 14 months.  Once people start traveling again and expenses shift back to outdoor activities/vacations, I think we'll see the prices of some books fall back down.  I expect this book to come back down as it's not a key.

I never cared for this book either. Not a frank miller art fan and I preffer Wolverine in costume (I grew up with the Jim Lee look)

10 minutes ago, shadroch said:

How do you figure it's not a key? What is a key if not this?

Hulk 181?

[ExNihilo]

8 minutes ago, shadroch said:

How do you figure it's not a key? What is a key if not this?

 

2 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

But it is *absolutely* key. Classic character, cover and story - and what made Wolverine a superstar, far beyond what Byrne and Claremont had been doing with him in the Uncanny run.

Growing up, keys to me were first appearances and deaths.  Over time deaths have become more meaningless because most every character ultimately returns.  I've learned that other things can factor in to make a book a key such as iconic cover and what not.  I guess the first issue is an iconic cover, but beyond that there aren't any notable story moments.

(I feel like I've come full circle.  My very first post on these boards was about the definition of keys and I got lambasted then.  .  It appears I still haven't learned anything.  )

[comicginger1789]

25 minutes ago, ExNihilo said:

I wouldn't trust anyone who claims their book is a 9.9.

I must be the exception.  In my 30 years of collecting, I've never thought "oh, I want this book."  And even now, I still don't want it.  I don't understand the run up in price beyond the fact that all collectibles are rising as a result of some people having extra money to spend because they've been stuck at home the last 14 months.  Once people start traveling again and expenses shift back to outdoor activities/vacations, I think we'll see the prices of some books fall back down.  I expect this book to come back down as it's not a key.

Agree, I have also never wanted this issue. In fact when I bought my first ever collection at age 18, there were twenty copies of it in there. I read it, felt eh about the artwork and story, and sold every copy for profit on the collection as a whole. I understand that books like this will maybe become more key (sorry for using that term) and that there are new books that could hit such status but in my own collecting world, my focus is on the 1940s-1970s above all else. And I learned long ago you cant have it all (unless you are extremely rich which some here may be). There will always be in demand books I have no desire for but am glad there is desire for them because it allows me to make money to buy books I want.

Consider that collection waaay back. I paid $100 for it then. I sold every copy of Wolverine 1 and made $200 (sold for $10 a pop). What I decided to keep from said collection was Marvel Spotlight 28 AND used the money to eventually spend a whopping $60 at the time on a high grade copy of ASM 300. 

I am way happier with this choice personally because the two books I kept are characters I like and the two books I "invested" in I would argue have more staying power. 

 

 

 

[comicginger1789]

Sometimes keys are in the eyes of the beholder. Is Wolverine 1 from 1988 a key? For a die hard Wolverine fan, sure. First solo ongoing series. And for some, a decent classic cover image.

But for me, if I ever did care about Wolverine and wanted to, I would grab a Hulk 180 or 181. And I do own earlier more important issues like Millers mini series (something I think has way more value both as a story and helping to grow the character). With regards to 180/181, I have had both and sold both and been much more happy doing so knowing the money made went towards what I love. Will I regret those sales? I don't live that way...I don't live by the sale. I don't think about books once they are gone. Sure the Hulk 180s I sold for $300-400 might today fetch $500-600 in their condition. But as someone who uses the hobby to fund itself, if I did not sell them when I did, I would not have spend money on say the low grade Daredevil 1 I got. I look at it that way and never look back. I take joy in the books coming in and know that whatever books went out meant little or nothing to me. 

Somewhere therein lies the secret to happy collecting. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by comicginger1789

[revat]

Maybe key maybe not, but if you considered yourself a big Wolverine fan you’d have this book right?

[ExNihilo]

1 minute ago, revat said:

Maybe key maybe not, but if you considered yourself a big Wolverine fan you’d have this book right?

That's probably what it boils down to is the individual.  I'm a Spider-Man fan so I prioritized adding stuff like Kraven's Last Hunt, ASM 298-300, ASM 252, Secret Wars 8 to my collection.  But when it comes to Wolverine, all I really cared about was IH181.

[Gatsby77]

Hard not to consider a mainstream Marvel from 1982 that goes for $1,000+ in 9.8 a key. Especially when it’s common as dirt. 

It’s the first solo Wolverine, solidified his popularity - and (again) both the cover and story are considered classics.

[ExNihilo]

16 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

Hard not to consider a mainstream Marvel from 1982 that goes for $1,000+ in 9.8 a key. Especially when it’s common as dirt. 

How much should value be attributed to the definition of a key book?  Because I feel like raw copies must have been below $50 not more than 3 years ago (though, admittedly I wasn't actively looking, but it never really popped up on my radar when hearing about expensive books).  In todays market, for $1,000+ I'd much rather buy an ASM 298 or 299.  At least then I would have 1st Eddie Brock or 1st Venom in cameo.

[lostboys]

The old guys are just bitter cause they didn't have the internet in the 70s 80s or 90s...there was also no CGC.

This book can only go up in value from here. Same with ASM 252, ASM 300 and even NM 98.

Sure, there are a ton out there but theyre not making anymore, boys ...and the world population is exploding.

Don't listen to the bitter negativity

Buy now or you'll be paying double in 6 months.

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by lostboys

[csaag]

11 hours ago, Tcla75 said:

I'm looking at the prices online and they seem to have jumped to crazy levels even from the prices they were a few months ago. The best price I have seen so far for a graded 9.8 white pages is $1200. Is this the worst time to buy or will I be even looking at paying way more in the next year or two. This is something I plan to keep for good so if I have to wait a year or two till the market settles I would be willing to do that but then the last thing I want to happen is to have to buy one for about 10 grand next year or the year after that.

Any market correction doesn't necessarily mean the book will be found cheaper than right now.   Prices could double etc and then correct but still bottom out at a price higher than now

[ExNihilo]

47 minutes ago, lostboys said:

The old guys are just bitter cause they didn't have the internet in the 70s 80s or 90s...

Listen here sonny, we had dial-up in the 90s.

Boop boop beep boop.  BEEP BEEP BEEP <crackle>

[Sky1]

I'm not a expert or promise anything (yea the fact I lead with that says you should listen to me, right? lol)...anyways, it's going to get way worse before it gets better and when it does get better, it will just end up back full circle to it's current price of $1200.  That's just my opinion based upon my experience with books that I want.  In your case, prices are only based on rumors, when the actual Wolverine trailer comes out, expect to pay quadruple.  When the movie comes out, double that quadruple.

This is the deal, every time a book sells, a seller with that book gets notified by a magic crow.  That seller will then double the price from it's very last sale and wait it out for a rich bozo, er "well informed lovely person" to swoop in and buy it up.  Rinse, repeat until collecting comics just becomes a celebrity trend like buying dinosaur fossils or time shares (I dunno what celebrities buy).  Only way you're gonna find a deal or FMV, is to pray someone gets down on their luck & have to make a quick sale, then you can probably buy what you want at 20% off.  Hopefully you can figure out which parts are meant to be facetious, but there's some truth into it.  Look at X-Men 129 CGC 9.8 right now, last sale was last month for 5k, now people want 15k for no reason other than playing a game of top this.  You might think 15k is ridiculous for it, but guaranteed someone will pay that & that officially becomes the new bargain price.  I say bargain price because you will hope you can see that price again.  All the sellers will just mark up the next sale.

Really, it won't get better unless we all stop buying or the actual economy crashes.  If it's the latter, you better not be buying comics.

[Sky1]

Oh that's my long winded way of saying you should buy the book now.

ONLY IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT!!!!!