Are prices still climbing or have they eased up a bit??? 43 43

[BraveDave]

Agree that the drops aren’t equal or universal. Still struggling to land some DC books at “favorable” prices - they simply haven’t dropped much (in some cases not at all). Same with scarcer golden age. Not a surprise given the relative moves up to 2021.

Marvel is tricky because while there are steep drops of 50%+ across many mega keys, hard to know if they’ve settled or due for further decline.

[Grottu]

On 6/11/2023 at 10:00 AM, october said:

The downward trajectory is pretty clear here, at least on many Silver and Bronze Marvels, modern keys, movie spec books, etc. Even a cursory look at GPA or DC#'s charts bears this out.

Not every market segment is equal though, a lot of Gold has held up well or continues to increase, DC's haven't seen the same falls as Marvel (they never went as high in the first place), but the post-Covid trend has been pretty poor for the stuff new money was chasing in 2021. The nostalgia bubble fueled by PPP loans, lockdowns, social media hype and boredom has popped across all hobbies and this is the hangover. Same in videogames, same (actually much worse) in sports cards.

All of which makes me wonder how Blackstone views its CGC investment now that the mid-pandemic tulip bulb craze is fading…

[october]

On 6/11/2023 at 11:02 AM, Grottu said:

All of which makes me wonder how Blackstone views its CGC investment now that the mid-pandemic tulip bulb craze is fading…

Probably the same way Fanatics views their purchase of Topps.

 

[1Cool]

On 6/11/2023 at 12:02 PM, Grottu said:

All of which makes me wonder how Blackstone views its CGC investment now that the mid-pandemic tulip bulb craze is fading…

Or the way Disney is feeling about paying top dollar for Marvel.

[Ryan.]

On 6/11/2023 at 12:52 PM, 1Cool said:

Or the way Disney is feeling about paying top dollar for Marvel.

Haven't they already made that investment back multiple times over?

[Ryan.]

On 6/11/2023 at 12:02 PM, Grottu said:

All of which makes me wonder how Blackstone views its CGC investment now that the mid-pandemic tulip bulb craze is fading…

Have submissions gone down?

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 6/11/2023 at 11:02 AM, Grottu said:

All of which makes me wonder how Blackstone views its CGC investment now that the mid-pandemic tulip bulb craze is fading…

They are probably pretty happy with it considering they have raised prices (again) even this time (like last) has caused another mass pile of submissions. They have a HUGE line up of in house signings and they have expanded cards and added VHS.

Oh and let's not forget they also decided not to take a BUNCH of their own mistakes back on their dime! 

[Grottu]

On 6/11/2023 at 1:21 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

They are probably pretty happy with it considering they have raised prices (again) even this time (like last) has caused another mass pile of submissions. They have a HUGE line up of in house signings and they have expanded cards and added VHS.

Oh and let's not forget they also decided not to take a BUNCH of their own mistakes back on their dime! 

Perhaps. Still, I have to believe the general market decline has an impact, especially with marginal books where the cost-benefit for slabbing is very wobbly. If you buy a $100 book that was going for, say, $150 a year ago, why would you spend another $50 or so on CGC fees/shipping/taxes? Same goes for other collectibles.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Grottu

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 6/11/2023 at 12:26 PM, Grottu said:

Perhaps. Still, I have to believe the general market decline has an impact, especially with marginal books where the cost-benefit for slabbing is very wobbly. If you buy a $100 book that was going for, say, $150 a year ago, why would you spend another $50 or so on CGC fees/shipping/taxes? Same goes for other collectibles.

I am sure like everything in this market there has been decline, but that is just it. Most things today cost more and are worth less. 

Just the same costs keep increasing so there are those that still think that they would rather spend $50 today than $60+ next year. They are still betting it will continue to rise. (Both cost and value) 

 

[1Cool]

On 6/11/2023 at 12:54 PM, Ryan. said:

Haven't they already made that investment back multiple times over?

I’m not sure on that one.  I kind of assumed they lost a ton buying it right before they stopped cranking out hit movies.

[mjoeyoung]

On 6/11/2023 at 12:14 PM, 1Cool said:

I’m not sure on that one.  I kind of assumed they lost a ton buying it right before they stopped cranking out hit movies.

Disney acquired Marvel in 2009 (this is much earlier than I thought), so they have reaped most of the success of the Marvel movies.  Paid $4B and earned worldwide $22.6B.

Star Wars is a different story.  Paid $4B in 2012, movies have only earned $4.8B. Plus, they spent approximately $2B to build a Galaxy's Edge (Star Wars Land) in Florida and California and $350M to build the now closed Galactic Starcruiser hotel.  They miscalculated that the new characters would be as beloved as Han Solo, etc.  When I went on the main ride in the park (Rise of the Resistance), I could not help but think the ride would have been much scarier with Darth Vader instead of Kylo Ren as the antagonist.

Edited June 11, 2023 by mjoeyoung

[Ryan.]

On 6/11/2023 at 3:11 PM, mjoeyoung said:

Disney acquired Marvel in 2009 (this is much earlier than I thought), so they have reaped most of the success of the Marvel movies.  Paid $4B and earned worldwide $22.6B.

Star Wars is a different story.  Paid $4B in 2012, movies have only earned $4.8B. Plus, they spent approximately $2B to build a Galaxy's Edge (Star Wars Land) in Florida and California and $350M to build the now closed Galactic Starcruiser hotel.  They miscalculated that the new characters would be as beloved as Han Solo, etc.  When I went on the main ride in the park (Rise of the Resistance), I could not help but think the ride would have been much scarier with Darth Vader instead of Kylo Ren as the antagonist.

Merchandising.

[mjoeyoung]

On 6/11/2023 at 3:15 PM, Ryan. said:

Merchandising.

No doubt, but I do not believe they are selling as much product as they expected to when they bought Lucasfilm.  I think they were expecting to pump out at least one Star Wars movie a year (as they did from 2015-2019) with a corresponding boost in estimated merchandise sales of between $5-7B a movie (of which they may only get 5-10%).  Though the merchandise sales for The Force Awakens were good, sales for Rogue One, were not, and retailers may have cut subsequent orders for the next movies.  Now, they haven't released a movie since 2019, and there are none in production (3 in development).

Some of the Disney Plus shows have been successful, but the streaming service lost $1.5B in the fourth quarter of 2022.  I don't know if Baby Yoda sales can cover that.

[Stefan_W]

On 6/11/2023 at 6:24 PM, mjoeyoung said:

No doubt, but I do not believe they are selling as much product as they expected to when they bought Lucasfilm.  I think they were expecting to pump out at least one Star Wars movie a year (as they did from 2015-2019) with a corresponding boost in estimated merchandise sales of between $5-7B a movie (of which they may only get 5-10%).  Though the merchandise sales for The Force Awakens were good, sales for Rogue One, were not, and retailers may have cut subsequent orders for the next movies.  Now, they haven't released a movie since 2019, and there are none in production (3 in development).

Some of the Disney Plus shows have been successful, but the streaming service lost $1.5B in the fourth quarter of 2022.  I don't know if Baby Yoda sales can cover that.

The problem with the movies is they were not particularly good and in some cases outright bad (hello, Rise of Skywalker), and although nostalgia is a powerful thing it can still only take you so far. The streaming stuff is also a mixed bag with Mandalorian being exceptionally good and Boba Fett being tedious and largely boring. 

This is a lot like what Marvel is experiencing right now - make good stuff and people will flock to it, but start making piles of poo emojis and things will go downhill in a big hurry. 

Edited June 11, 2023 by Stefan_W

[Ryan.]

On 6/11/2023 at 6:24 PM, mjoeyoung said:

No doubt, but I do not believe they are selling as much product as they expected to when they bought Lucasfilm.  I think they were expecting to pump out at least one Star Wars movie a year (as they did from 2015-2019) with a corresponding boost in estimated merchandise sales of between $5-7B a movie (of which they may only get 5-10%).  Though the merchandise sales for The Force Awakens were good, sales for Rogue One, were not, and retailers may have cut subsequent orders for the next movies.  Now, they haven't released a movie since 2019, and there are none in production (3 in development).

Some of the Disney Plus shows have been successful, but the streaming service lost $1.5B in the fourth quarter of 2022.  I don't know if Baby Yoda sales can cover that.

All I know is my kids have no idea what The Mandalorian is yet have Baby Yoda pajamas, toys, lightsabers, and there are at least two remote control Grogus floating around this house somewhere. 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 6/11/2023 at 4:15 PM, Ryan. said:

Merchandising.

On 6/11/2023 at 6:00 PM, Ryan. said:

All I know is my kids have no idea what The Mandalorian is yet have Baby Yoda pajamas, toys, lightsabers, and there are at least two remote control Grogus floating around this house somewhere. 

[marvelmaniac]

On 6/10/2023 at 3:23 PM, lou_fine said:

Any breakdown to the descent by ages in terms of GA, SA, BA, CA, etc. so that we have a better idea where the biggest drops are taking place?  

The books are Silver and early Bronze, all books are raw. Here are a few examples...

(June 2022/December 2022/June 2023)

 

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN

2 (PR 0.5) $1000.00/$690.00/$600.00

14 (VG/FN 5.0) $1900.00/$1400.00/$1400.00

31 (VG+ 4.5) $350.00/$350.00/$200.00

Annual 1 (VG/FN 5.0) $1200.00/$1200.00/$900.00

 

AVENGERS

4 (GD/VG 3.0) $1200.00/$900.00/$800.00

48 (VG - 3.5) $160.00/$100.00/$70.00

 

DAREDEVIL

1 (PR 0.5) $1200.00/$1100.00/$900.00

 

FANTASTIC FOUR

5 (FR/GD 1.5) $4000.00/$4000.00/$2500.00

12 (GD/VG 3.0) $800.00/$900.00/$600.00)

33 (FN 6.0) $240.00/$50.00/$70.00

48 (GD 2.0) $1100.00/$750.00/$700.00

67 (VF 8.0) $400.00/$300.00/$150.00

 

INCREDIBLE HULK 

2 (FR/GD 1.5) $1300.00/$1300.00/$1000.00

180 (GD/VG 3.0 Missing The MVS) $350.00/$300.00/$200.00

181 (FN/VF 7.0) $4500.00/$4000.00/$3500.00

 

JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY

83 (GRR VF- 7.5) $600.00/$600.00/$400.00

 

STRANGE TALES

110 (GD 2.0) $2000.00/$1250.00/$1000.00

 

TALES OF SUSPENSE

52 (VG/FN 5.0) $500.00/$500.00/$400.00

 

TALES TO ASTONISH

35 (GD 2.0) $350.00/$300.00/$200.00

 

THOR

126 (FN- 5.5) $190.00/$175.00/$100.00

 

X-MEN

2 (PR 0.5, Remainder Copy) $300.00/$200.00/$125.00

4 (GD+ 2.5) $1000.00/$700.00/$700.00

10 (FN/VF 7.0) $615.00/$550.00/$400.00

 

[mjoeyoung]

Has the bubble burst? Some people are still "investing" or speculating...

24 books graded 9.0 and above on the census with 10 in 9.6.  Last sale in grade was $160 in 2020.  A 9.2 sold for $155 in May.   I just don't know how you get from there to here.  These books are rare in high grade, but are they that valuable?  Gold Key values are up, but they are all over the place.

Counterpoint with a Gold Key bubble-bursting sale of:

Last sale in grade was in Dec 2022 for $1451.30 .  In June 2022 a 9.4 sold for $1163.  19 graded 9.0 or above with 3 9.6s tied for highest grade.  Rarer than the Doctor Solar above, but it took a huge price hit here.

[KCOComics]

On 6/12/2023 at 12:48 PM, marvelmaniac said:

The books are Silver and early Bronze, all books are raw. Here are a few examples...

(June 2022/December 2022/June 2023)

 

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN

2 (PR 0.5) $1000.00/$690.00/$600.00

14 (VG/FN 5.0) $1900.00/$1400.00/$1400.00

31 (VG+ 4.5) $350.00/$350.00/$200.00

Annual 1 (VG/FN 5.0) $1200.00/$1200.00/$900.00

 

AVENGERS

4 (GD/VG 3.0) $1200.00/$900.00/$800.00

48 (VG - 3.5) $160.00/$100.00/$70.00

 

DAREDEVIL

1 (PR 0.5) $1200.00/$1100.00/$900.00

 

FANTASTIC FOUR

5 (FR/GD 1.5) $4000.00/$4000.00/$2500.00

12 (GD/VG 3.0) $800.00/$900.00/$600.00)

33 (FN 6.0) $240.00/$50.00/$70.00

48 (GD 2.0) $1100.00/$750.00/$700.00

67 (VF 8.0) $400.00/$300.00/$150.00

 

INCREDIBLE HULK 

2 (FR/GD 1.5) $1300.00/$1300.00/$1000.00

180 (GD/VG 3.0 Missing The MVS) $350.00/$300.00/$200.00

181 (FN/VF 7.0) $4500.00/$4000.00/$3500.00

 

JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY

83 (GRR VF- 7.5) $600.00/$600.00/$400.00

 

STRANGE TALES

110 (GD 2.0) $2000.00/$1250.00/$1000.00

 

TALES OF SUSPENSE

52 (VG/FN 5.0) $500.00/$500.00/$400.00

 

TALES TO ASTONISH

35 (GD 2.0) $350.00/$300.00/$200.00

 

THOR

126 (FN- 5.5) $190.00/$175.00/$100.00

 

X-MEN

2 (PR 0.5, Remainder Copy) $300.00/$200.00/$125.00

4 (GD+ 2.5) $1000.00/$700.00/$700.00

10 (FN/VF 7.0) $615.00/$550.00/$400.00

 

My Hulk 181 is also a 7.0 and I'm surprised to see the $3500 last sale. 

Not surprised in the sense that it "I can't believe prices have fallen so far", but I just hadn't looked in a long time. 

Probably a good time to look into upgrading. 

[marvelmaniac]

On 6/13/2023 at 7:01 AM, KCOComics said:

My Hulk 181 is also a 7.0 and I'm surprised to see the $3500 last sale. 

Not surprised in the sense that it "I can't believe prices have fallen so far", but I just hadn't looked in a long time. 

Probably a good time to look into upgrading. 

The prices I come up with are not based on one sale, they are based on multiple sold auction prices (when available) for books in the same grade, it is more of an average between the high/low prices a book in that grade sold for over the last 6 month's. Judging by what I have seen while checking FMV over the last 1 1/2 years, this is probably a good time for buyers, the question is, will prices keep dropping, stabilize or go up again, I assume it will all depend on pop culture, the MCU and other factors, unfortunately that is a question no one can answer.

Good luck  on your quest to upgrade your IH 181 at a reasonable price.