Are prices still climbing or have they eased up a bit??? 43 43

[Microchip]

On 9/2/2023 at 3:56 AM, buttock said:

Clink's method of bidding dissuades shilling to a degree.  Without being able to see some real-time behavior at the end of the auction, you have to just throw out something and hope that it sticks.  That's riskier than going up incrementally.

So you're saying buy at Clink, and sell at ComicConnect?   On the face of the different bidding formats this would make good sense, but results do vary between both sites, high and low.

[VintageComics]

On 9/1/2023 at 8:38 PM, Microchip said:

So you're saying buy at Clink, and sell at ComicConnect?   On the face of the different bidding formats this would make good sense, but results do vary between both sites, high and low.

Come on, dork. 

Where you sell isn't important. Who is doing the shill bidding for you is. 

[Tom789]

On 8/31/2023 at 9:45 PM, dikran said:

I think we’re comparing apples and oranges… The SA 9.X market is doing just fine and fetching multi thousands of dollars as evidenced by ComicLink results of the past week. Alas not all of us can play in such rarified air. The collapse is happening in the lower grades, where we plebes reside. Also modern spec books of the new characters are down massively from the highs and continue to go down with every subsequent sale. It really puts a damper on finally winning that first Shuri for a 3 year low price only for it go even lower the following day on MCS or Heritage or whatever. The people buying those first Riris and Kamalas today will hopefully be buying our Thor 126 9.6s in 15-20 years but not if they’re constantly getting hosed by market irrationality and never come back. 

Small sample to support this.  Last week's Heritage auction of CGC-graded SA Spider-mans.  I was going to calculate a percentage down number and got lazy, but it's easy to see the market for this small sector, the most popular character by far, is still down.

Price = auction sale price including 20% buyer's premium; G.C. = GoCollect 12-month average selling price.  Apologies for the bad penmanship!

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

On 9/1/2023 at 9:08 PM, Tom789 said:

Small sample to support this.  Last week's Heritage auction of CGC-graded SA Spider-mans.  I was going to calculate a percentage down number and got lazy, but it's easy to see the market for this small sector, the most popular character by far, is still down.

Price = auction sale price including 20% buyer's premium; G.C. = GoCollect 12-month average selling price.  Apologies for the bad penmanship!

 

 

 

While I use Go Collect and find them valuable, I find their algorithms to be of sometimes and the values they insert don't make sense to me. 

A far better indicator would be calculating actual past sales via GPA. 

[Tom789]

On 9/1/2023 at 6:13 PM, VintageComics said:

While I use Go Collect and find them valuable, I find their algorithms to be of sometimes and the values they insert don't make sense to me. 

A far better indicator would be calculating actual past sales via GPA. 

I didn't use their funky FMV.  Are their last 12-month sales values unreliable as well?

[Microchip]

On 9/2/2023 at 12:45 AM, MyNameIsLegion said:

hypothesis my eye- it's a FACT. CGC stratified the market, Covid spending was the tide that raises all boats, but now that tide is gone, and the stratification is even more stark now. Now all the money wasted slabbing non-high census SA an BA keys and non-keys looks like money just as well tossed in a fire if you are the fool holding that 9.2 Ms. Marvel #1, Eternals #1, She-Hulk #1, etc , etc, or anything below a 9.0.  I would laugh, LAUGH if suddenly CGC were victims of their own greed and submissions tanked. What's the point? Might as well send it to MCS and be done with it. 

I don't think it's more stark.   Stark, is just prices rising.  

20+ years of CGC, 100,000's of slabbed books.  The train is up and running 

CGC brought confidence and structure to the market, and that confidence has seen price appreciation.    Confidence is the key.

And everything is, and always has been stratified, CGC has only enhanced that aspect for funny books. 

 

[Microchip]

On 9/2/2023 at 11:01 AM, VintageComics said:

Come on, dork. 

Where you sell isn't important. Who is doing the shill bidding for you is. 

I did massively over bid on a book on the recent Clink auction.   Final winning bid was 60% of my bid.   Good to see no in-house schenanigans going on.

[VintageComics]

On 9/1/2023 at 9:15 PM, Tom789 said:

Are their last 12-month sales values unreliable as well?

Ah, my apologies. I thought you used their FMV values. No, those are accurate from what I can tell. 

[VintageComics]

On 9/1/2023 at 9:21 PM, Microchip said:

I did massively over bid on a book on the recent Clink auction.   Final winning bid was 60% of my bid.   Good to see no in-house schenanigans going on.

I too believe that there are no shenanigans at Clink. 

Can't speak for others. 

[buttock]

On 9/1/2023 at 6:38 PM, Microchip said:

So you're saying buy at Clink, and sell at ComicConnect?   On the face of the different bidding formats this would make good sense, but results do vary between both sites, high and low.

I said nothing about where to buy or sell, not sure where you got that.  

[wiparker824]

On 9/1/2023 at 5:22 PM, VintageComics said:

Some people like the most beautiful thing they can attain, some just want the thing no matter the shape, and some want a piece of a thing. 

Picassos and Ferraris are silly too, I guess. Or not. Guess it all depends on your perspective. 

 

I’d be happy with a 9.6 Ferrari or a 9.6 Picasso too, I don’t need a 9.8 of those either.

I like my Picasso’s with a tiny color breaking spine tick. 

[Telegan]

On 9/1/2023 at 10:10 PM, wiparker824 said:

I’d be happy with a 9.6 Ferrari or a 9.6 Picasso too, I don’t need a 9.8 of those either.

I like my Picasso’s with a tiny color breaking spine tick. 

I hear there are weirdos that even like restored Ferraris, too.  The horrah!

[Sweet Lou 14]

This is an honest request for someone to explain DD #131 to me.

Here's tonight's result for a nice 9.8 WP copy:

A "Mark Jewelers insert" copy sold for even more on ComicConnect last week, skewing GoCollect's algorithm a bit (it shows FMV at $10,000, likely as a result).

So let's toss out the higher number since the book in question is a sort-of variant, and stick with $7,000+ as the current market for a 9.8 WP copy of the book.

I have a 9.6 WP copy that I bought for a little over $1,100 in April 2021, during the height of the market ... GoCollect shows recent sales in the $800-$1,500 range (that's actually a broad range) but let's say $1,100 is about right for a 9.6.  I might expect a 9.8 to be about double, maybe as much as $2,500+, but I saw a 9.8 WP copy with less than perfect centering go for over $4,500 on ComicLink in March, and I believe Dale Roberts sold a nicer 9.8 for $5,000+ soon after that.  Now we have this result at over $7,250.

So the market is apparently saying that a 9.8 is worth more than 6 times a 9.6?  I just don't get it.  There are 110 9.8 copies in the census, so it's not exactly rare, and while Bullseye is a good character he's not exactly A-list and he's already been used in the old Ben Affleck movie.  I'm really struggling to understand why this book is going for such high prices, which is why I've stayed on the sidelines and refused to upgrade my 9.6.

Basically I'm saying that if it were possible to "short" a comic, I'd be looking hard at this one.  I just cannot justify the going rate on this book and I can't see myself ever paying more than $3,000 max for a 9.8.

That is, unless someone can make a convincing case that I should.  What am I missing here?

[wiparker824]

On 9/1/2023 at 8:19 PM, Telegan said:

I hear there are weirdos that even like restored Ferraris, too.  The horrah!

I call them PLOD Ferraris. 

[VintageComics]

On 9/1/2023 at 11:39 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

That is, unless someone can make a convincing case that I should.  What am I missing here?

Jon Bernthal being announced as Punisher for the Daredevil: Born Again Netflix series was announced in March. 

So Daredevil has started becoming popular again. Many issues are starting to climb. 

A CGC 9.8 just sold for record money a month ago but I can't disclose what it went for. 

That and this copy happened to be perfectly centered with White pages and a CVA sticker. 

All of those things add up to a record price at this moment. 

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 9/1/2023 at 11:51 PM, VintageComics said:

Jon Bernthal being announced as Punisher for the Daredevil: Born Again Netflix series was announced in March. 

So Daredevil has started becoming popular again. Many issues are starting to climb. 

A CGC 9.8 just sold for record money a month ago but I can't disclose what it went for. 

That and this copy happened to be perfectly centered with White pages and a CVA sticker. 

All of those things add up to a record price at this moment. 

Thanks.  Still skeptical ... I may never upgrade to 9.8, but I'll be watching to see if it corrects as I think it (eventually) should.

[wiparker824]

On 9/1/2023 at 8:39 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

This is an honest request for someone to explain DD #131 to me.

Here's tonight's result for a nice 9.8 WP copy:

A "Mark Jewelers insert" copy sold for even more on ComicConnect last week, skewing GoCollect's algorithm a bit (it shows FMV at $10,000, likely as a result).

So let's toss out the higher number since the book in question is a sort-of variant, and stick with $7,000+ as the current market for a 9.8 WP copy of the book.

I have a 9.6 WP copy that I bought for a little over $1,100 in April 2021, during the height of the market ... GoCollect shows recent sales in the $800-$1,500 range (that's actually a broad range) but let's say $1,100 is about right for a 9.6.  I might expect a 9.8 to be about double, maybe as much as $2,500+, but I saw a 9.8 WP copy with less than perfect centering go for over $4,500 on ComicLink in March, and I believe Dale Roberts sold a nicer 9.8 for $5,000+ soon after that.  Now we have this result at over $7,250.

So the market is apparently saying that a 9.8 is worth more than 6 times a 9.6?  I just don't get it.  There are 110 9.8 copies in the census, so it's not exactly rare, and while Bullseye is a good character he's not exactly A-list and he's already been used in the old Ben Affleck movie.  I'm really struggling to understand why this book is going for such high prices, which is why I've stayed on the sidelines and refused to upgrade my 9.6.

Basically I'm saying that if it were possible to "short" a comic, I'd be looking hard at this one.  I just cannot justify the going rate on this book and I can't see myself ever paying more than $3,000 max for a 9.8.

That is, unless someone can make a convincing case that I should.  What am I missing here?

GPA shows some pretty erratic results for this book in 9.8:

My guess is this is more about a match of 2 people who wanted to buy a 9.8 tonight. But on another note CL’s auction was weird in general and continues to be weird, even in the non-9.8 books. Some books were setting lows not seen since pre pandemic days. Other books that are really common not only were nearing pandemic highs they were blowing books from CL’s auction that just ended 2 days ago out of the water.

Take a look at ASM 300 9.6. $1625. A solid $500 over the 90 day GPA average.

Oh and also $600 more than it just went for at auction 2 days ago on CL and this one was even signed:

 

McFarlane’s signature apparently devalues this book by about 40% is the only conclusion lol. I’m not going as far as claiming shill bidding on CL, just that there’s been a lot of weirdness I’ve seen over the past couple months in both directions so I take everything that I see there now with a grain of salt. In my opinion it’s had a lot more variance than the other big auction sites recently. 

 

[VintageComics]

On 9/1/2023 at 11:56 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Thanks.  Still skeptical ... I may never upgrade to 9.8, but I'll be watching to see if it corrects as I think it (eventually) should.

Sorry, meant to say a #1 CGC 9.8 sold for a record amount. 

On 9/1/2023 at 11:57 PM, wiparker824 said:

GPA shows some pretty erratic results for this book in 9.8:

Come on. This isn't our first rodeo. 

Page Quality, eye appeal, venue, visible defects. All of these things cause variations in price. 

Plus not every auction result CAN be the same. 

I think if you started a deep dive you'd say that there is far more rationale to why prices vary than not. 

[wiparker824]

On 9/1/2023 at 9:00 PM, VintageComics said:

Come on. This isn't our first rodeo. 

Page Quality, eye appeal, venue, visible defects. All of these things cause variations in price. 

Plus not every auction result CAN be the same. 

I think if you started a deep dive you'd say that there is far more rationale to why prices vary than not. 

Yes, as I was saying. The erratic results are not unusual for this book in a 9.8. The reasoning can be what you mentioned or one of many other things like 2 people just really wanted that cva exceptional sticker tonight. I wasn’t attempting to list every possible reason for price variance.

[lou_fine]

On 9/1/2023 at 10:56 AM, buttock said:

Clink's method of bidding dissuades shilling to a degree.  Without being able to see some real-time behavior at the end of the auction, you have to just throw out something and hope that it sticks.  That's riskier than going up incrementally.

In total agreement with your view on CL's method of bidding and the reason why I don't care to participate in any of their auctions.    

Especially since I prefer to give myself some time for controlled and rational bidding throughout the entire auction till the end , instread of feeling the need to just toss out a blind Hail Mary bid at the end.