Some Unconfirmed Speculation About Two Brothers 16 16

[shadroch]

As I understand it, the draft in Korea wasn't 18 year olds as it was in Vietnam.  I remember my Mom( who graduated high school in 1949) told me a lot of boys would enlist at 18 because they'd be out in three years and get on with their lives rather than wait to get drafted at 21. If she was accurate, it can explain why the younger brother enlisted after the older brother was drafted.   Edit- it looks like the US drafted men aged 21-29 during the Korean War.

If you know the persons name, finding out when he was killed or reported missing would be simple.

Edited May 18, 2021 by shadroch

[sfcityduck]

44 minutes ago, MasterChief said:

The Promise Collection books revealed thus far by Heritage have various covers markings, including two different distributor marks, each with and without the numeric month and day indicators. The "K" with the month/day inscription is the overall prominent marking.

The second distributor marking is the curly "C" with or without month/day. This particularly marking is interesting as it has similar characteristics to that of a distributor marking found on the Aurora pedigree. This may indicate that portions of the Promise Collection originated from the same western regional distributor as the Aurora books.

 

Distributor markings and dates were common.  They aren't really a unique identifier for a pedigree.  Especially since back then everyone learned to write cursive in fairly similar manners.  There are a lot of D's on comics that aren't "D copies."  Also, does anyone know how big a regional area a distributor making distributor markings would have covered?  

The biggest issue I have with my theory is that the "Armand" written on the books post dates when the "Jr." in my tale enlisted.  But, it could be that is because that was not written by "Junie," but by someone at the store where the comics were bought.  Basically, it could be at some point a stack was held aside for the absent soldier with Armand written on the top comic in the stack so when someone came in and said "I'm here for Armand's comics," the stack was readily available.

[sfcityduck]

4 minutes ago, shadroch said:

 

If you know the persons name, finding out when he was killed or reported missing would be simple.

Yes, it would. But we're forced to speculate as to what that name was.

[buttock]

1 hour ago, MasterChief said:

The Promise Collection books revealed thus far by Heritage have various covers markings, including two different distributor marks, each with and without the numeric month and day indicators. The "K" with the month/day inscription is the overall prominent marking.

The second distributor marking is the curly "C" with or without month/day. This particularly marking is interesting as it has similar characteristics to that of a distributor marking found on the Aurora pedigree. This may indicate that portions of the Promise Collection originated from the same western regional distributor as the Aurora books.
 

Ohio books have a similar C and I've bought OO books from the east with a similar C.  

[buttock]

This thread reminds me of this scene. 

https://youtu.be/4SeTBxa63wg

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by buttock

[reality_consensus]

Yes, the Aurora and Ohio books exhibit the "C" distributor code. Thanks for the additional info regarding the east coast.  I noticed these multiple codes and suspected that the collection was "pieced together" rather than genuine "O-O" newstand purchased.  This prompted me to go through the effort to validate the story put forth by Heritage.

Edited May 18, 2021 by reality_consensus

[Zonker]

42 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:

 

The biggest issue I have with my theory is that the "Armand" written on the books post dates when the "Jr." in my tale enlisted.  But, it could be that is because that was not written by "Junie," but by someone at the store where the comics were bought.  Basically, it could be at some point a stack was held aside for the absent soldier with Armand written on the top comic in the stack so when someone came in and said "I'm here for Armand's comics," the stack was readily available.

The Larson books had the name written by the drug store staff, not Lamont himself.  

[Terry JSA]

19 hours ago, Point Five said:

If the family wants to remain confidential, surely we should respect that wish?

 

I totally agree with this! Sure we’re all skeptical about a high grade pedigree collection coming out of no where and hitting Heritage Auctions, but if the family of the collection wishes to remain anonymous, respect their privacy!

[sfcityduck]

I am now aware of a second set of brothers, who fit the bill and have an almost identical story to the two brothers I just mentioned.  

It is eerie.  

The big difference?  The older brother in this pair died last year as Heritage represented.  

Very eerie that the story is so similar.  

And, this story is also much better than the story told by Heritage. 

I looked at the decedent in this new pair of brothers, but I could not discern how he fit a key fact as told by Heritage.  I still can't.  But, I am convinced this pair fits the bill close enough.

So I'm going to withdraw my prior speculation and not release the name of the two brothers whose story I told.  I'll leave the thread up since I never identified the brothers.

Based on my research so far, I still have some of the same concerns about the story as told by Heritage that I expressed in this thread. 

Heritage and the family could clarify this easily.

But I can say, whichever of the two pairs of brothers it was, the story is primarily about brotherly love, about family, and about heroism.

The "funny books story" that Heritage has either chosen to focus upon or been forced to focus upon is the least interesting thing about the story.

I think everyone can confidently bid on the collection with confidence that the books have a connection to valor in the Korean War.

It would be nice for Heritage and the family to clarify the situation and for the truth to come out.

Enough said.

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by sfcityduck

[Mr. Lady Luck]

3 hours ago, MasterChief said:

The Promise Collection books revealed thus far by Heritage have various covers markings, including two different distributor marks, each with and without the numeric month and day indicators. The "K" with the month/day inscription is the overall prominent marking.

The second distributor marking is the curly "C" with or without month/day. This particularly marking is interesting as it has similar characteristics to that of a distributor marking found on the Aurora pedigree. This may indicate that portions of the Promise Collection originated from the same western regional distributor as the Aurora books.
 

Are you sure that's a "C" and not an ampersand? @

[D84]

If the family wants to be anonymous, it's none of our  business who they are.

Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.

[PDGray]

On 5/18/2021 at 3:50 PM, sfcityduck said:

I am now aware of a second set of brothers, who fit the bill and have an almost identical story to the two brothers I just mentioned.  

It is eerie.  

The big difference?  The older brother in this pair died last year as Heritage represented.  

Very eerie that the story is so similar.  

And, this story is also much better than the story told by Heritage. 

I looked at the decedent in this new pair of brothers, but I could not discern how he fit a key fact as told by Heritage.  I still can't.  But, I am convinced this pair fits the bill close enough.

So I'm going to withdraw my prior speculation and not release the name of the two brothers whose story I told.  I'll leave the thread up since I never identified the brothers.

Based on my research so far, I still have some of the same concerns about the story as told by Heritage that I expressed in this thread. 

Heritage and the family could clarify this easily.

But I can say, whichever of the two pairs of brothers it was, the story is primarily about brotherly love, about family, and about heroism.

The "funny books story" that Heritage has either chosen to focus upon or been forced to focus upon is the least interesting thing about the story.

I think everyone can confidently bid on the collection with confidence that the books have a connection to valor in the Korean War.

It would be nice for Heritage and the family to clarify the situation and for the truth to come out.

Enough said.

 

 

Absolutely amazing research!!  

I would be very interested in reading the story of this second set of brothers if you would care to share it.

 

PDG

[Artboy99]

On 5/18/2021 at 8:37 AM, sfcityduck said:

 

Yes.  I've considered whether every aspect of the story and, indeed, whether the entire story is false.

When I first read the story on Bleeding Cool, I thought:  "This "Promise' story is frigging ridiculous!"  It is either "family mythology" or really naïve and cynical puffery.  I thought, "This is just a spin on the San Francisco story where it wasn't the family buying the comics and storing them while the soldier is at war, it is the OO buying the comics with the storing part changed to after he dies."  I was shocked they were retreading a story, the SF story, that had never even been verified.  The story seemed entirely implausible. 

After all, if you're a 19 to 21 year old going off to war, are you really going to tell your brother:  "If something happens to me take care of my funny books"!?!  Not "take care of my dog" or "take care of our sisters" or "take care of our parents" or "take care of my girl" even.  Instead, the story told by the family through Heritage was "take care of my funny books"! 

"Funny books" were only worth pennies on the dollar back then.  And I don't think soldiers going to war, especially if, as the family through Heritage told the story, they were volunteering to go to war to protect a family member, would have their "funny books' uppermost in their thoughts.   My initial impression was: "What total B.S.  A dumb story for a dumb pedigree name."

You could not make up a story more targeted to the present comic market.  The story seemed too good to be true.

And I don't think I was alone in thinking that.  Does anyone really disagree?

So I set out to find out what I could.  And to do that, I have to take something from the story as true.  If the starting premise is that Heritage is lying about the story, your end point is that the story is entirely made up.  I wasn't prepared to jump to that conclusion. So I took certain information on faith, and started verifying what I could.

Turns out, it was a very interesting and inspiring story.  So I'll start telling it without any names or identifying information for the family.

I agree with you, but I also believe there to be some truth to the story but it has been paraphrased to be specific to the market. Yes I agree that it is more likely to say "take care of the family if something happens to me", but the entire discussion could have included the family, the sisters, the dog and the comic collection: everything the younger brother cared about.

 

 

 

[Aman619]

Why wouldn’t a collector going off to war tell his brother “take care of my comics”, or “don’t let anyone throw them away”?

back then comics were garbage. Your family didn’t care at all about them. Chances are if you didn’t specifically tell them NOT to keep them. They’d be gone when you came home. 
 

they’d keep your baseball glove forever, but not your old funny books. Even unread in perfect condition.  

[sfcityduck]

On 1/9/2022 at 5:55 PM, Aman619 said:

Why wouldn’t a collector going off to war tell his brother “take care of my comics”, or “don’t let anyone throw them away”?

back then comics were garbage. Your family didn’t care at all about them. Chances are if you didn’t specifically tell them NOT to keep them. They’d be gone when you came home. 
 

they’d keep your baseball glove forever, but not your old funny books. Even unread in perfect condition.  

The key point you make is this: A soldier going to war might ask his brother on the home front to keep his comics safe until he got back because, as you put it, he'd be afraid that if he didn't make that request: "They’d be gone when [he] came home."  But, Heritage doesn't tell a story about a soldier saying "keep my comics safe until I get home."  And, according to Heritage, Robert had already been drafted to go to war before Junie enlisted - so why would "Junie" make his request to Robert anyway?  What could Robert do to keep the comics safe from Korea, the comics were with his parents back on the home front?  Both brothers were going to war.  And why would Robert or "Junie" care what happened to the comics after "Junie" died, given that, as you said, "back then comics were garbage"?  

If the SF story is any evidence, parents would keep their sons' possessions safe when they went to war.  As a parent, I know I'd keep my sons stuff safe until he returned.  And I can see how some parents, like the SF parents allegedly did, might have kept their son's room and his possessions completely undisturbed either as a memorial or out of excessive grief.  

   

Edited January 10, 2022 by sfcityduck

[Aman619]

On 1/9/2022 at 9:02 AM, Artboy99 said:

I agree with you, but I also believe there to be some truth to the story but it has been paraphrased to be specific to the market. Yes I agree that it is more likely to say "take care of the family if something happens to me", but the entire discussion could have included the family, the sisters, the dog and the comic collection: everything the younger brother cared about.

 

 

 

I was speaking to this sentence.  Someone going off to war might say a lot of things to his family:  take care of my dog, take care of mom, dont lose my watch, or my baseball mitt. amd oh, and dont throw out my comics.  Why would the story of the pedigree include all the other things he asked to be taken care of? Its the comics story that counts. Maybe the way the "story" was told leads one to believe it was just his comics he cared enough about to mention cause we dont care about his watch or mommy when bidding on the comics.

but, I haven't been following this "story" all that closely. To me its the comics that make a pedigree, not the story behind them. To me that just fluff cause the Pedigree name conveys quality regardless of where or how they were accumulated.  I know not all of you feel this way though.

So hard to keep up with all the conspiracy theories nowadays!  Made up Pedigree backstories!  Fake rocket ship stamps! Social media will be the death of us all.

[Robot Man]

On 1/9/2022 at 10:56 PM, Aman619 said:

I was speaking to this sentence.  Someone going off to war might say a lot of things to his family:  take care of my dog, take care of mom, dont lose my watch, or my baseball mitt. amd oh, and dont throw out my comics.  Why would the story of the pedigree include all the other things he asked to be taken care of? Its the comics story that counts. Maybe the way the "story" was told leads one to believe it was just his comics he cared enough about to mention cause we dont care about his watch or mommy when bidding on the comics.

but, I haven't been following this "story" all that closely. To me its the comics that make a pedigree, not the story behind them. To me that just fluff cause the Pedigree name conveys quality regardless of where or how they were accumulated.  I know not all of you feel this way though.

So hard to keep up with all the conspiracy theories nowadays!  Made up Pedigree backstories!  Fake rocket ship stamps! Social media will be the death of us all.

“Social Media” has for the most part been a cancer on society. So much incorrect and evil information is available for those who can’t think for themselves. Other than here, and occasional IG browsing, I just avoid it all.

The Promise story might have some truth to it but I suspect a bit of  “embellished marketing hype” Everybody likes a good story and this often leads to bigger money. Once “pedigrees” became a big thing, every somewhat interesting collection that turned up was given a cool name and story. Marketing 101. 

As you said, story or not, the books themselves are astonishing and the collection stands on it’s own story or not. 

[Tri-Color Brian]

So, 5 pages of reading later, we are still not sure if this story is accurate...similar to the SF Pedigree story...although I don't think anyone could even locate Reilly in that one.  Great detective work SFCityDuck.  Too bad you couldn't give us closure...

Edited January 10, 2022 by Tri-ColorBrian

[sfcityduck]

On 1/10/2022 at 11:58 AM, Tri-ColorBrian said:

So, 5 pages of reading later, we are still not sure if this story is accurate...similar to the SF Pedigree story...although I don't think anyone could even locate Reilly in that one.  Great detective work SFCityDuck.  Too bad you couldn't give us closure...

... 

[Sarg]

On 5/18/2021 at 3:50 PM, sfcityduck said:

 

I think everyone can confidently bid on the collection with confidence that the books have a connection to valor in the Korean War.

I love how delicately you expressed doubt about Heritage's PR campaign.