New ComicLink Buyer Policy Affirms Confidence in CGC Graded Books

[shadroch]

[Hobo]

Regardless of intent, I applaud this policy. Well done.

[delekkerste]

As Gene noted, throw out all the moderns they've graded in that percentage. But even under those calculations, there's still a small number.

 

And what if you're talking about high grade SA/BA books with a market value of over $500 or $1,000? It is completely disingenuous to talk about a universe of 600,000 slabbed books, because only a small percentage of those would be worth (monetarily) taking the risk of trimming. I don't know about you guys, but suddenly we're not talking about an event equal to the probability of being struck by lightning anymore when you narrow the universe down to the group of books that are most likely to have been tampered with.

 

And, for those of us who are opposed to pressing, what % of the relevant universe in question do you think has been affected by this practice?

[whomerjay]

A very positive post, but yet people will still find something negative, or a hidden message out of it.

 

That's not it at all. It's called not trying to avoid the truth. The truth is also not that every Ewert book is trimmed or touched up. There's no "hidden message". It's obvious what the goal is here. It's negative to use inaccurate statistics.

 

Foolkiller:

 

We are usually on the same page but I have to disagree with you here. Josh's statement re: # of books is a little ambiguous but even if he's wrong, the message is essentially is that the % of CGC misses is so small he has no problem guaranteeing anything bought on CLINK. That's putting it on the line and it doesn't matter what numbers he throws out before making that guarantee, the point is he bases his action on the principle that the numbers suggest you can trust CGC (although I bet he'll also have a master list of the known JE books posted prominently). Yes, he does a slight disservice by probably quoting inaccurate numbers (he should have hedged considerably) but that error is not that significant IMO (especially given it was likely to be corrected in a nanosecond by the next poster).

 

Now whether he really believes this or this is just the appropriate response to improve business is another question. Personally, I don't think he needs to do this (or at least got his far) to improve his bottom line.

 

As far as CGC following suit, it will never happen because their ultimate risk is much much greater than CLink or any other dealer/exchange service.

[shadroch]

Thats a very interesting question. Lets not screw up Joshs' press release and move the discussion to another thread.

[FFB]

Exactly what I was thinking. This is a superb policy, Josh, and it certainly inspires more confidence in your site (at least for me it does). But let's not try to minimize the impact of what happened by claiming that CGC has only missed restoration on 6 books out of 600,000. That's just silly.

 

And that's the whole problem I have with it. Sure, we should applaud Josh for implementing the policy. Of course, it's good customer service, and great public relations. It's genuinely motivated in that it benefits him to do everything he can to quell the tide of concern and not harm Comiclink's new "record" sale.

 

BUT, all of those motivations are irrelevant in that this is still a policy that helps the buyer, and quite honestly, if Josh stands behind this policy, it would give added confidence to his books.

 

The problem is, you go too far when you start suggesting inaccurate statistics assuming that nobody on here knows the truth. Overly gushing pro-CGC statements do not help the entire collecting community. The idea is to force improvements and changes that will eventually encourage better resto detection so that all books have more confidence. But please, I know Josh is probably aware of the "real" numbers as well as I am and has talked to Steve and everyone else.

 

You can quell the fears simply by being honest about the problem, stating your return policy, and moving the hobby forward.

 

 

While the policy is admirable, and I applaud the response, I am in disagreement as to the numbers used to bolster that stance.

 

I agree. The numbers would also look more meaningful if you exclude the universe of books that are unlikely to be worth trimming (most books from the past 20-25 years, low dollar value books, etc.) I think it's a fine move to implement this policy, but the gravity of the situation should not be minimized by using inaccurate or misleading statistics.

[Foolkiller]

whomerjay:

 

I understand what you're saying, and to be quite honest, this is one instance where I'm NOT going to bog down Josh's thread by continuously making critical remarks.

 

The bottom line is, you have to applaud the policy regardless of the numbers or of the motivation. It's a good policy, and if dealers follow his lead, make the same guarantee, openly disapprove of Ewert's practices, they will in fact do some good and be making steps forward.

 

To that end, I'm not going to ramble on and go back and forth: I want other dealers to follow suit, and thus it's important to show support for those dealers willing to step up and make these guarantees, regardless of their motives to do so.

[whomerjay]

 

I want other dealers to follow suit, and thus it's important to show support for those dealers willing to step up and make these guarantees, regardless of their motives to do so.

 

Yes.

 

What I would like to see happen is some time of arrangement between CGC and those big dealers who have this policy (assuming such agreements have not already been reached) to keep them from taking the full hit. I don't even have to know what that agreement is; if it causes enough dealers to guarantee their CGC books, that' s enough for me.

[ft88]

While were at it, can we lower the fees to 8% instead of 10%?

[Aman619]

whether Josh's math skills or faith in CGC is a bit off, Josh is the one who is putting his money where his mouth is. If he does not have any special access to info but merely 'believes' the problem is far less than we may be afraid of, well, thats Josh's problem. And he has MADE it HIS problem to deal with.

 

SO if Josh is correct, we are safe buying from Comiclink.

And, if he's a pollyanna and has way too much faith in CGCs skills, he loses... but we still win.

 

So way to go, Josh. Your confidence is a breath of fresh air in the gloom we have been living in lately. Now Id like to hear from Metro and Bob and all the other top dealers making the SAME pledge.... Josh has moved ALL-IN, guys.... how 'bout YOU?

[Crows]

If i buy a slabbed book , how would i know its trimmed, or even suspect it, if even CGC couldnt tell

Would you deslab and resubmit just to see ?

[Rip]

Wow!!

 

So does anyone know, whats the number of Ewert trimmed books ...as of today?

[ComicSupply]

I am interested to know how exactly you plan on getting the money lost on a found trimmed book back from CGC. I also think you would have a hard time getting the money back from the seller of the book, so it is going to come out of your pocket?

[FlyingDonut]

Exactly what I was thinking. This is a superb policy, Josh, and it certainly inspires more confidence in your site (at least for me it does). But let's not try to minimize the impact of what happened by claiming that CGC has only missed restoration on 6 books out of 600,000. That's just silly.

 

And that's the whole problem I have with it. Sure, we should applaud Josh for implementing the policy. Of course, it's good customer service, and great public relations. It's genuinely motivated in that it benefits him to do everything he can to quell the tide of concern and not harm Comiclink's new "record" sale.

 

BUT, all of those motivations are irrelevant in that this is still a policy that helps the buyer, and quite honestly, if Josh stands behind this policy, it would give added confidence to his books.

 

The problem is, you go too far when you start suggesting inaccurate statistics assuming that nobody on here knows the truth. Overly gushing pro-CGC statements do not help the entire collecting community. The idea is to force improvements and changes that will eventually encourage better resto detection so that all books have more confidence. But please, I know Josh is probably aware of the "real" numbers as well as I am and has talked to Steve and everyone else.

 

You can quell the fears simply by being honest about the problem, stating your return policy, and moving the hobby forward.

 

 

While the policy is admirable, and I applaud the response, I am in disagreement as to the numbers used to bolster that stance.

 

I agree. The numbers would also look more meaningful if you exclude the universe of books that are unlikely to be worth trimming (most books from the past 20-25 years, low dollar value books, etc.) I think it's a fine move to implement this policy, but the gravity of the situation should not be minimized by using inaccurate or misleading statistics.

 

Jesus. Who the [embarrassing lack of self control] cares, in this context, how many books Josh thinks were trimmed?

 

The number that he thinks it is is completely irrelevant. The good thing is that he is backing up all sales with a money back guarantee. He thinks the number is very small. That's his opinion. You guys think the number is very large. That's your opinion. I think the number is somewhere in the middle. That's my opinion.

 

Whatever the number is, for Comiclink's guarantee, it doesn't matter. I hope, for Josh's sake, he's right. He's backing up his sales with his wallet, and we should applaud him for it.

[Aman619]

I am interested to know how exactly you plan on getting the money lost on a found trimmed book back from CGC. I also think you would have a hard time getting the money back from the seller of the book, so it is going to come out of your pocket?

 

maybe he will have a hard time. Josh feels its worth the gamble.

[burntboy]

Not to be naive Foolkiller, but just what exactly is the truth?

 

How many books out of 600k+ submitted were found to be trimmed/restored?

 

How many of those are JE? in Blue Slabs?

 

I have never dealt with JE, met him, hung around with him, so I dont want to come across as a defender of him either. As an outsider reading some posts in regards to him past/present, I get the feeling you dont like the guy at all for whatever reason you have(being valid or not).

 

I just wish that if/when the facts are found they are presented to everyone, and not worry whats the actual percent of books that have/have not been caught.

 

I think its good PR what Josh is doing, gives the collector a sense of security, and of course its good for his business, thats all.

 

at the risk of being totally redundant, i'm gonna jump in here with about a page and a half to go in this thread.

 

first - CONGRATS to all you whitesox fans (both old and NEW). they just crushed the redsox today. but it's no time to gloat as the redsox have come back from their 2 worse playoff defeats to win those series.

 

second - now onto the real issue, i have to side with Nikos here. as much as i love you Brian (in the Viking sort of way) i'm somewhat befuddled by your focusing on Josh's misstatement of the degree of CGC's errors, as opposed to Josh's fairly remarkable offer. I, for one, am impressed...................

 

i understand the motivation, but cannot but be unimpressed with the action....... this is what we need...............let's rejoice in the positive things that are happening................

[Foolkiller]

harry -- read my subsequent post on the subject.

[whomerjay]

I am interested to know how exactly you plan on getting the money lost on a found trimmed book back from CGC. I also think you would have a hard time getting the money back from the seller of the book, so it is going to come out of your pocket?

 

maybe he will have a hard time. Josh feels its worth the gamble.

 

CL does have a seller approval process (albeit only slightly more stringent than fogging a mirror)

 

CL knows where seller lives

 

CL can tell us where seller lives

 

CL sees every book before it goes to buyer and is probably better than 99% of us in spotty an iffy book, even if it's encased

 

CL has some list of Ewert books, and that list will continue to inch toward 100% (but never reach 100%) of suspect books over time

 

CL knows a rough range of dates for suspect books

 

CL knows the type of book that might be a problem

 

CL pays sellers about 30-45 days after they send in book, that's alot of time for buyer to alert them of potential problem or uncover a probelm themselves

 

CL can lose at most 90% of sell price.

 

CL could initiate a bond requirement on sellers

 

CL is not taking much of gamble (it's just smart business)

[drbanner]

Not to be naive Foolkiller, but just what exactly is the truth?

 

How many books out of 600k+ submitted were found to be trimmed/restored?

 

How many of those are JE? in Blue Slabs?

 

I have never dealt with JE, met him, hung around with him, so I dont want to come across as a defender of him either. As an outsider reading some posts in regards to him past/present, I get the feeling you dont like the guy at all for whatever reason you have(being valid or not).

 

I just wish that if/when the facts are found they are presented to everyone, and not worry whats the actual percent of books that have/have not been caught.

 

I think its good PR what Josh is doing, gives the collector a sense of security, and of course its good for his business, thats all.

 

at the risk of being totally redundant, i'm gonna jump in here with about a page and a half to go in this thread.

 

first - CONGRATS to all you whitesox fans (both old and NEW). they just crushed the redsox today. but it's no time to gloat as the redsox have come back from their 2 worse playoff defeats to win those series.

 

second - now onto the real issue, i have to side with Nikos here. as much as i love you Brian (in the Viking sort of way) i'm somewhat befuddled by your focusing on Josh's misstatement of the degree of CGC's errors, as opposed to Josh's fairly remarkable offer. I, for one, am impressed...................

 

i understand the motivation, but cannot but be impressed with the action....... this is what we need...............let's rejoice in the positive things that are happening................

 

Yep, gotta side with Nikos, Burntboy, and Donut on this one as well - it's a little disappointing to see people nitpicking on Josh's outstanding offer. Can't wait to see the list Sterling's putting together with all the books from all Jason's invoices over the last few years, then we'll know how many "candidates" there are and can start putting some numbers together.

 

However, for now I suggest we put down the torches and axes for a minute and take a look at the forest here people, the trees can be burned down to the roots later!

[THE_BEYONDER]

Of course, even CGC making such a guarantee would require that they have an airtight ability to now detect the trimming in question...and that's yet to be proven. Without more disclosure from CGC, even Josh's bold guarantee is a somewhat hollow promise - so you send a book back to CGC and it comes back in a Blue label once again...to my mind, that doesn't mean it's necessarily unrestored at this point.

 

 

Hmm....