AJLewandoski Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Bob Loblaw III said: Adam/Him is an easy one. First appearance of Adam Warlock is obviously Marvel Premiere #1. That's as easy as saying Wolverine's first appearance is Hulk #180. Really? Even though Him first appeared in Fantastic Four 67 and had other appearances in Thor after that? You're contradicting yourself now. Just because a character receives an update and a new name doesn't make it a new character, if they wanted to make a totally new character they would have. Is Carol Danvers first appearance not Marvel Super-Heroes #13 because she didn't have powers and a costume until Ms. Marvel #1? Is Ant Man's first appearance not Tales To Astonish #27 because he didn't have a suit and a code name? HotKey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLewandoski Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 19 minutes ago, Bob Loblaw III said: Yes, really. No, I'm not contradicting myself at all. You obviously haven't read MP#1. Do that and get back to me and I'll gladly accept your apology I sense some trolling, if only I had both books in front of me... What's this the splash page? Featuring the unleashed power of the being known only as Him?!... But surely you must be right! I mean its not like they specifically cite Fantastic Four #66 and #67 as his origin... Well they must not give an explanation as to his new costume, powers, and name... Apologies may be in order...but I dont think they should be from me... TheOldCollector, Juno Beach, HotKey and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJLewandoski Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Bob Loblaw III said: Thank you for contradicting yourself and simultaneously proving me correct At least you didn't leave the Soul Gem panel out, since that really kills your theory. @HotKey Wasn't suggesting his first appearance was between Fantastic Four and Marvel Premiere he was saying the debate was whether Fantastic Four #66 or #67 is his first appearance. With that said would you care to elaborate exactly what's contradictory here? If you had any explanation besides an unfounded opinion it would be easier to figure out what part you can't comprehend. What I presented was not a theory, but the factual written history of the singular character that originally goes by name "Him" and later adopts the name "Adam Warlock". The soul gem doesn't make him a new character. He's not endowed with newfound sentience from it or given a new soul by accepting it. It's literally a cosmic bauble the High Evolutionary gives him to help fight against the Man Beast. When Thanos wields the Soul Gem does he become a new character? Of course not. When Adam Warlock loses the Soul Gem does he cease to be Adam Warlock? No chance. This recap from Marvel Premiere #2 may help you. Even AFTER re-emerging from his cocoon in his new outfit he's still HIM or the nameless one. He's still the same character who was born in FF #66/67, shows up in Thor 163-166, floats off into outer space, is picked up by the High Evolutionary in Marvel Premiere #1 and comes out of his cocoon once again when his help was needed. Every time his origin is recapped it includes all of these parts, so I fail to see how this could ever possibly equate to him being a new character. Please tell me what I can do to help you understand his simple linear story progression. HotKey, Off Panel, TheOldCollector and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digweedrocks Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 I'd vote for "1st Glimpse" on Hulk 180. More than a cameo, less than an appearance. I'd want at least a page, preferably more, to have it be a characters 1st appearance. "1st Glimpse" page VS "1st Appearance" page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hulksdaddy1 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juno Beach Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Lazyboy mentioned it and man, 'foreshadowed' is a way better word than 'cameo'. Let's call it that from now on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kairos70 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 (edited) They way collectors have been using the term "cameo" what they really are implying is that it's a "brief" appearance. One or two panels/pages verses appearing throughout the whole story. Brief should be the term if the character hasn't appeared in another published title. Edited July 10, 2021 by kairos70 Bob Loblaw III 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wall-Crawler Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 (edited) I really like the "foreshadowing" or "teaser" descriptor, while I do not consider these an appearance per se, the are significant and do merit consideration, hence the teaser descriptor someone suggested. So, using Venom as example, how about this as some sort of "classification" system? Venom Example: Venom 1st foreshadowing/teaser appearance - Web of Spider-Man #18 (small visual, may be body part or mostly obscured, no or little dialogue by character and no significant reveal) Venom 2nd foreshadowing/teaser appearance - Web of Spider-Man #24 (small visual, may be body part or mostly obscured, no or little dialogue by character and no significant reveal ) Venom Cameo - Amazing Spider-Man #298 (character partially obscured/not fully seen, brief appearance, some dialogue and may or may not interact with primary character) First Venom Appearance - Amazing Spider-Man #299 (full unobstructed view of character and some interaction and/or dialogue, may interact with primary character or supporting character) First Full Venom Appearance - Amazing Spider-Man #300 (character plays pivotal role throughout majority of book/story, some backstory/motivation or origin may be revealed) Anyway, this is all just "fun" and will be one of those endless things us comic folk debate. I have liked seeing and hearing other peoples takes on all of this stuff. And with regards to Venom, its all good to me, I have all of these Edited July 11, 2021 by Wall-Crawler siro123, Arkham and djzombi 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
