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Greatest OA in existence
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Started by Chicago Boy,

154 posts in this topic

Bronty

Bronty

Posted
Posted (edited)

There’s problems with absolutely any form of measuring the greatness of art (see J Evans Pritchard).  
 

The one thing (and it’s no small thing) that using monetary value has going for it is that despite all its flaws it’s the one objective measure we have.     The other measurement tools that we typically discuss are totally subjective.   That’s an impassable roadblock to any kind of consensus.

For example, you like Toth, I like Toth, and maybe you’re right that his art is at the top of the list, but you’ll never get any significant number of people to agree with you. 
 

The Hulk 181 cover being $$$$$$$… that’s a fact .   Self-evident.   Does value equate exactly to greatness, not at all, but there’s a correlation and it’s our one objective measure and the importance of that can’t be overstated.   Otherwise you’re sitting here arguing with someone who says the greatest art ever created is the Gi Joe 3 cover because it’s the cover to the first comic he bought or whatever lame trumped up definition of greatness someone decides to use.   That same person may be able to come up with a lame reason that GI Joe 3 is the best cover of all time, but he sure can’t argue it’s the most valuable.
 

 

Edited by Bronty
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vodou

vodou

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On 7/26/2021 at 9:03 AM, Bronty said:

That’s an impassable roadblock to any kind of consensus.

I'll simply argue that consensus is vastly overrated.

I'm sticking with contrarian. Always :) 

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vodou

vodou

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Posted
On 7/26/2021 at 9:03 AM, Bronty said:

Does value equate exactly to greatness, not at all, but there’s a correlation and it’s our one objective measure and the importance of that can’t be overstated.   Otherwise you’re sitting here arguing with someone who says the greatest art ever created is the Gi Joe 3 cover because it’s the cover to the first comic he bought or whatever lame trumped up definition of greatness someone decides to use.  

What you mean is there's a dearth of intellectual honesty? Yeah. I agree :) 

Intellectual honesty means viewing your childhood grails through adult eyes, not childhood eyes. Or have we learned nothing in any of our 40+ years on this planet? When I was six I thought I could bend bars of steel like Superman. I really did. Then we did a class field trip to the police station (huh? Yeah. It was the 70s lol) and I was put in a cell and challenged. To nobody's surprise but my own: I couldn't bend those bars. At nearly 50, I no longer question if those bars were made of much stronger steel that standard! I also know that Mike Zeck isn't really the best comic penciler in the world, just because he drew the cover of Captain America #263. He's pretty good though, and that's fine. Bob Hall on Avengers #213 (another childhood fave), um, eek?!!

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Timely

Timely

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On 7/26/2021 at 4:41 AM, Taylor G said:

Yeah, but which of them were on lunchbox covers? 

If we're going to consider storytelling as a criterion for greatness, then we should add Toth's Battle Flag of the Foreign Legion.  Any list of "great" OA that does not include Toth is not serious.  But this is a discussion that suggests that Herb Trimpe made some of the greatest OA.

If we want to use monetary value as the measure of greatness, then by analogy, Infinity War is the greatest film ever made, followed by Avatar.  Does anybody actually remember Avatar?

I watched Avatar with my 10y/o last weekend, he LOVED it! (thumbsu

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delekkerste

delekkerste

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On 7/26/2021 at 9:03 AM, Bronty said:

The Hulk 181 cover being $$$$$$$… that’s a fact .   Self-evident.   Does value equate exactly to greatness, not at all, but there’s a correlation and it’s our one objective measure and the importance of that can’t be overstated.   Otherwise you’re sitting here arguing with someone who says the greatest art ever created is the Gi Joe 3 cover because it’s the cover to the first comic he bought or whatever lame trumped up definition of greatness someone decides to use.   That same person may be able to come up with a lame reason that GI Joe 3 is the best cover of all time, but he sure can’t argue it’s the most valuable.

What kind of Philistine would think that the cover to G.I. Joe #3 is the greatest comic art ever created? 

Obviously the greatest comic art ever created is the interior artwork to G.I. Joe #21. 

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delekkerste

delekkerste

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On 7/18/2021 at 2:47 PM, Terry_JSA said:

Didn’t that get destroyed in a house fire? 

No. There's been a lot of published misinformation out there about this. Wein didn't own the cover, which definitely exists (I've seen a photo). He did own the original story, but, that survived the fire (I've seen photos of it taken after the fire). 

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Bronty

Bronty

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On 7/26/2021 at 12:20 PM, delekkerste said:

What kind of Philistine would think that the cover to G.I. Joe #3 is the greatest comic art ever created? 

Obviously the greatest comic art ever created is the interior artwork to G.I. Joe #21. 

Oy! 😂 

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Terry JSA

Terry JSA

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On 7/26/2021 at 12:22 PM, delekkerste said:

No. There's been a lot of published misinformation out there about this. Wein didn't own the cover, which definitely exists (I've seen a photo). He did own the original story, but, that survived the fire (I've seen photos of it taken after the fire). 

If they survived, who’s the current owner? Wouldn’t the cover or story pages be on CAF?

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All-Star Squadman

All-Star Squadman

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Posted (edited)

 

On 7/26/2021 at 5:06 PM, vodou said:

90% of everything, conservatively, is not on CAF.

I'd say that's a bit high, but yeah most Comic art is not.

 

Since Greatest is totally in the eye of the beholder here is what I think qualifies:

Greatest is Chuck Norris #1 cover. Who's going to tell Chuck he's wrong? Chuck has a Grizzly rug in his den, it's not dead just too scared to move.

F3CdeDgh_1507211200151sbpi.jpeg

Second greatest OCA in existence is 1st Thanos Copter:

Spidey39p21CAF.jpg

 

Sure a tad tongue-in-cheek on my part, but each of the above has become entrenched in pop-culture and would now command $10k+. Is there anybody who would have thought that circa 2005?

Edited by 35CentEra
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Terry JSA

Terry JSA

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Posted
On 7/26/2021 at 5:06 PM, vodou said:

90% of everything, conservatively, is not on CAF.

That percentage seems a bit high, but I’m aware not everything is posted on there.

On 7/26/2021 at 9:11 PM, tth2 said:

I always forget the CAF Act of 2017, in which Congress mandated that all OA must be publicly posted on CAF.

I’m not saying just because you own a piece of OA, it should be posted. I just thought  that if the Hulk #181 cover or story pages did survive, why hasn’t anyone shown it off yet? The GSX #1 cover was rumored to have been destroyed in the fire, but that was debunked. 

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grapeape

grapeape

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Posted

Why has Hulk 181 not surfaced?

Because it pleases some collectors to stay private. Some get a thrill from sharing a new art acquisition. Others thrill at possessing “greatness” that the rest of the art world is dying to know where it’s hidden? Only they ( or maybe a privileged few) know the whereabouts.

#CABAL/CODEOFSILENECE.SHH

 

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Nexus

Nexus

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Posted
On 7/26/2021 at 9:22 AM, delekkerste said:

No. There's been a lot of published misinformation out there about this. Wein didn't own the cover, which definitely exists (I've seen a photo). He did own the original story, but, that survived the fire (I've seen photos of it taken after the fire). 

Interior story suffered some smoke damage, but has since been restored/conserved.

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