Am I being ripped off? I'm selling raw silver age keys to a buyer and I always end up getting half of what the graded version would be! 1 1

[Comics4Cash]

Hello everyone, I'm a seller with over 800 silver age comics, 99% marvel. I've only been selling this one guy because he always pays quickly and responds fast. We have had many successful transactions, I give him my best estimation of what the grade is, compared to books that are graded by CGC. I always end up getting half of what the graded version is, despite it being the same grade or even higher grade. Even when I look up raw sold listings on ebay, he sometimes pays me less than what it sold for, and his reason being market is up and down, even though that book literally sold like last month I definitely considered getting my books professionally graded because I feel like I'm leaving so much money on the table. But The guy told me that grading isn't worth it, he said something along the lines of "because they are biased, they only give good grades to people who send them a bunch of books, like 50 books a month or something. And that also if the book isn't a key book, they will purposely give a worse grade to skew the market or something." This is the best I can remember what he said, it didn't make much sense to me at the time, if they are that bad why would people even use them? Is this guy full of it? Am I being ripped off?

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 7/17/2021 at 8:51 PM, Comics4Cash said:

...The guy told me that grading isn't worth it, he said something along the lines of "because they are biased, they only give good grades to people who send them a bunch of books, like 50 books a month or something. And that also if the book isn't a key book, they will purposely give a worse grade to skew the market or something." This is the best I can remember what he said, it didn't make much sense to me at the time, if they are that bad why would people even use them? Is this guy full of it? Am I being ripped off?

This guy is 100% full of it. It takes 2 to tango. If you're happy with your sales, then you're not being ripped off. I think that if you truly felt you were being ripped off, then you would stop selling to this guy.

[MattTheDuck]

Or sell here on the Boards?  If you're grading them honestly, you should be able to get good value if not the full "slabbed" price you might see on an auction site.

Sounds to me like you are getting screwed.  I will tell you right now I wouldn't sell the second time to someone who did not pay what was agreed for any reason.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 7/20/2021 at 1:34 PM, MattTheDuck said:

Sounds to me like you are getting screwed.

I may be out of the loop, but when I was looking at Silver Age in 2020, raw books seemed to sell for around 50% of what it would be if it was graded the same by CGC/etc. If still true, then I don't think he's outright getting screwed.

[Jeffro.]

On 7/17/2021 at 8:51 PM, Comics4Cash said:

But The guy told me that grading isn't worth it, he said something along the lines of "because they are biased, they only give good grades to people who send them a bunch of books, like 50 books a month or something. And that also if the book isn't a key book, they will purposely give a worse grade to skew the market or something." This is the best I can remember what he said, it didn't make much sense to me at the time, if they are that bad why would people even use them? Is this guy full of it? 

Your guy is full of excrement 

Edited July 20, 2021 by Jeffro.

[MattTheDuck]

On 7/20/2021 at 10:42 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I may be out of the loop, but when I was looking at Silver Age in 2020, raw books seemed to sell for around 50% of what it would be if it was graded the same by CGC/etc. If still true, then I don't think he's outright getting screwed.

I was thinking more about this from the OP, "Even when I look up raw sold listings on ebay, he sometimes pays me less than what it sold for, and his reason being market is up and down...." not any relative value differences twixt slabbed & raw.

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 7/20/2021 at 1:47 PM, MattTheDuck said:

I was thinking more about this from the OP, "Even when I look up raw sold listings on ebay, he sometimes pays me less than what it sold for, and his reason being market is up and down...." not any relative value differences twixt slabbed & raw.

The OP is selling raw, as he mentioned providing his own estimated grades. Let's pretend that he's selling 8.5s. If his buyer is paying 50% of CGC 8.5s on average, and 40% every now and then, I don't think there's any off being ripped here. OP needs to be firm on prices if he's unwilling to accept less than FMV. However, OP also mentioned that he saw books "sold last month". As we know, FMV can go both up and down month-to-month.

For sure, the buyer is nefarious for claiming that CGC is "biased", etc. The other notes provided don't seem abnormal to me unless raw books are almost always going for more than half of a CGC graded one.

[revat]

Are you both adults? Do you both reasonably understand the language you’re both dealing in?  Do both of you have at least a basic understanding of business?

is he selling on consignment?  What is your agreement of how much he should be paying you? Are both sides fulfilling the terms agreed upon?

are you selling to him or is he selling FOR you.  The fact that all of this is not made clear and the fact that you didn’t think it necessary to make clear makes

 

not necessarily for comics business, but what info would you as a person should you want to know if someone was laying out a case and asking for your advice or opinion?  Think about It, then provide that info here.  
 

and let’s be clear, there CAN BE a huge difference between profiting off ignorance/inexperience, taking advantage of someone, giving biased OPINIONS, and actually ripping someone off -FRAUD/THEFT.  The EXACT words and representations made and HOW THEY ARE MADE are extremely important if you are alleging that some committed a crime or breached a contract/agreement. 
 

with that being said, it sounds like you don’t trust the guy, and certainly no one is forcing you do business with some you don’t trust.  
 

but if I were you, I’d lay out a FULL SPECIFIC EXAMPLE of what you’re talking about

Edited July 20, 2021 by revat

[shadroch]

A novice is complaining that his raw books sell for half of what a CGC would sell for, and you folks have problems with the guy buying them?

I'm guessing his VFs will be closer to Fs and his Fines are VG. 

[Sky1]

On 7/17/2021 at 8:51 PM, Comics4Cash said:

I give him my best estimation of what the grade is, compared to books that are graded by CGC. I always end up getting half of what the graded version is, despite it being the same grade or even higher grade.

Typically raw books not yet graded by CGC will always sell for alot less.  It's not unusual to see a raw book sell for half versus a CGC graded book in the same grade.  Really just depends on how hot the book is, but the due diligence is mostly on you in that case.

Now for what he said about grading, that's shady as heck as others have already said.  Sounds like the guy just wants to profit off your ignorance because he's definitely not forthcoming with that.

[ExNihilo]

This was posted to Reddit a few days ago (I can't find the discussion anymore, might have been deleted), but general concensus was...

- "yes, OP is being ripped off"

- "it takes a buyer and a seller to make a deal."

- "if you were happy to sell the book at a set price, then you weren't ripped off."

- "if someone offered me silver age keys at half price, i'd be quick to respond/pay as well"

[Heronext]

Many sellers of SA books list/ask for 1/2 to 2/3 of what CGC books go for (or auctions end by the same calculus).  Why?

- they want a quick sale

- they don't want the up front investment (fees), wait time, uncertainty, and risk of submitting to CGC

- buyer is willing to assume above, given an attractive price on the raw that makes it worthwhile

- book is often unpressed & even given that, seller often grades conservatively to make sure buyer is happy

 

Given all that, after pressing, yes, the CGC end-product often ends up twice as valuable as the "raw material"

Edited July 20, 2021 by Heronext

[William-James88]

On 7/17/2021 at 8:51 PM, Comics4Cash said:

Hello everyone, I'm a seller with over 800 silver age comics, 99% marvel. I've only been selling this one guy because he always pays quickly and responds fast. We have had many successful transactions, I give him my best estimation of what the grade is, compared to books that are graded by CGC. I always end up getting half of what the graded version is, despite it being the same grade or even higher grade. Even when I look up raw sold listings on ebay, he sometimes pays me less than what it sold for, and his reason being market is up and down, even though that book literally sold like last month I definitely considered getting my books professionally graded because I feel like I'm leaving so much money on the table. But The guy told me that grading isn't worth it, he said something along the lines of "because they are biased, they only give good grades to people who send them a bunch of books, like 50 books a month or something. And that also if the book isn't a key book, they will purposely give a worse grade to skew the market or something." This is the best I can remember what he said, it didn't make much sense to me at the time, if they are that bad why would people even use them? Is this guy full of it? Am I being ripped off?

Look at it this way. If grading a silver age book would cost you 40$ all expenses considered and you could sell it for 80, you are getting the exact same nominal profit by selling it for 40$ raw. So yeah, I can definitely see how someone would buy raw books for 50% of a graded one.

Basically, you arent comparing apples to apples. If you want to get the price of a graded book, then get your book graded. If you don't want to spend the money and time on that, then getting less makes sense.

Depending the specific scenario, you arent getting ripped off.

Your friend is wrong about CGC though, each book is graded independently of the market or who sent them in.

[Heronext]

On 7/20/2021 at 4:14 PM, William-James88 said:

Your friend is wrong about CGC though, each book is graded independently of the market or who sent them in.

I would agree with that - the guy you are selling to is definitely spinning you a tale.  The arrangement isn't necessarily a predatory one though.

[Bob Troub]

On 7/17/2021 at 8:51 PM, Comics4Cash said:

Hello everyone, I'm a seller with over 800 silver age comics, 99% marvel. I've only been selling this one guy because he always pays quickly and responds fast. We have had many successful transactions, I give him my best estimation of what the grade is, compared to books that are graded by CGC. I always end up getting half of what the graded version is, despite it being the same grade or even higher grade. Even when I look up raw sold listings on ebay, he sometimes pays me less than what it sold for, and his reason being market is up and down, even though that book literally sold like last month I definitely considered getting my books professionally graded because I feel like I'm leaving so much money on the table. But The guy told me that grading isn't worth it, he said something along the lines of "because they are biased, they only give good grades to people who send them a bunch of books, like 50 books a month or something. And that also if the book isn't a key book, they will purposely give a worse grade to skew the market or something." This is the best I can remember what he said, it didn't make much sense to me at the time, if they are that bad why would people even use them? Is this guy full of it? Am I being ripped off?

You set the prices, he doesn't....

[Bob Troub]

On 7/20/2021 at 1:11 PM, Count D. Monet said:

This guy sounds like a real scumbag. Why do you sell to him instead of MyComicShop or selling yourself on Ebay?

Wait a minute, is someone holding a guns to the sellers head? 

[Bob Troub]

On 7/20/2021 at 1:34 PM, MattTheDuck said:

Or sell here on the Boards?  If you're grading them honestly, you should be able to get good value if not the full "slabbed" price you might see on an auction site.

Sounds to me like you are getting screwed.  I will tell you right now I wouldn't sell the second time to someone who did not pay what was agreed for any reason.

So the seller sets a price, and he is getting screwed??! Lmao

[Bob Troub]

On 7/20/2021 at 2:19 PM, revat said:

Are you both adults? Do you both reasonably understand the language you’re both dealing in?  Do both of you have at least a basic understanding of business?

is he selling on consignment?  What is your agreement of how much he should be paying you? Are both sides fulfilling the terms agreed upon?

are you selling to him or is he selling FOR you.  The fact that all of this is not made clear and the fact that you didn’t think it necessary to make clear makes

 

not necessarily for comics business, but what info would you as a person should you want to know if someone was laying out a case and asking for your advice or opinion?  Think about It, then provide that info here.  
 

and let’s be clear, there CAN BE a huge difference between profiting off ignorance/inexperience, taking advantage of someone, giving biased OPINIONS, and actually ripping someone off -FRAUD/THEFT.  The EXACT words and representations made and HOW THEY ARE MADE are extremely important if you are alleging that some committed a crime or breached a contract/agreement. 
 

with that being said, it sounds like you don’t trust the guy, and certainly no one is forcing you do business with some you don’t trust.  
 

but if I were you, I’d lay out a FULL SPECIFIC EXAMPLE of what you’re talking about

Agreed

[Terry JSA]

On 7/20/2021 at 3:46 PM, ExNihilo said:

This was posted to Reddit a few days ago (I can't find the discussion anymore, might have been deleted), but general concensus was...

- "yes, OP is being ripped off"

- "it takes a buyer and a seller to make a deal."

- "if you were happy to sell the book at a set price, then you weren't ripped off."

- "if someone offered me silver age keys at half price, i'd be quick to respond/pay as well"

This is where I saw the post at originally too. My thoughts are that the buyer is misleading the seller by telling him things that aren’t true so they can get a better deal on books. Considering the buyer is now aware of that,  they can easily hit up the seller whenever for books below FMV. The seller is being taken advantage of in this situation. 

[sfcityduck]

On 7/20/2021 at 1:14 PM, William-James88 said:

Your friend is wrong about CGC though, each book is graded independently of the market or who sent them in.

Is that an actual promise CGC has made?