Batman 1

[benz]

Hi all, from an investment prospective which is a better buy...a CGC 9.2 M® Batman 1 or a CGC 5.0 unrestored Batman 1. Its nice to see a Batman 1 looking like it came from a newstand.

[JohnBull]

I'd guess the later, but it would obviously depend on how low the price for the former is.

[action1kid]

There is no question that Batman #1 IN UNRESTORED 5.0 is a better investment than a 9.2 restored batman 1 with moderate resto.This is a slam dunk!

 

Be careful of the MODERATE RESTO DESIGNATION!...

This is the resto designation where you start to see[pieces added] so look at the disrciption very carefully when resto reaches this level.Motor city a while back had an Action 1 with color touch,pieces added and TRIMMED and still recieved a designation of moderate resto.

Now if you haD said a batman 1 with slight resto,thats another story,but i would NEVER,NEVER,NEVER take a 9.2 bat1 with moderate resto over an unrestored bat 1 in 5.0...NO way!

[action1kid]

And you could always have the 5.0 bat 1 restored to a 9.2 if you wanted too.

But that would be a foolish move. Buy the unrestored 5.0!

[Filter81]

Hi all, from an investment prospective which is a better buy...a CGC 9.2 M® Batman 1 or a CGC 5.0 unrestored Batman 1. Its nice to see a Batman 1 looking like it came from a newstand.

 

Neither, buy my Batman 1 CGC 8.5 EP. Its obviously the best investment of all 3 :

[benz]

filter, that's against the advise of actionkid thanks for the advises...might get the 5.0 unrestored...IF the deal pushes through will let you know.

[The Black Hand ®]

Boy there's nothing worse then opening a restored book and seeing tan pages against a cleaned white inside cover.If you do but restored be sure of the page quality.

[Filter81]

Boy there's nothing worse then opening a restored book and seeing tan pages against a cleaned white inside cover.If you do but restored be sure of the page quality.

 

Thats what the CGC holder is there for.. so you don't HAVE to open it up and see the interior pages... duh.. Actually tho the pages on my 8.5 are OW/W.

 

Just as an aside btw (and this is just my opinion) I think the 9.2 is a better investment than the 5.0. (I don't know what prices you're being offered each, so I'm not making any statement regarding which one is the better deal at the present time) but I would always take a high grade restored book over a mid-grade unrestored book if the price is right. Personally, I think that regardless of whatever ups and downs the restored market goes through, it will gradually strengthen over time as less and less high grade unrestored copies become available for certain books. Also, the 9.2 overstreet value on a book like this will usually rise 10-15% a year, while the 5.0 value will usually rise minimally, if at all. So regardless of whatever percentage of guide you end up getting for a restored book, at least you are pretty much guaranteed the guide value you are taking the percentage from will rise steadily.

[action1kid]

Please consider, i have nothing to sell you!!

My opinion is unbiased.I own no bat #1s that ill sell you.

ill say it again, the 5.0 unrestored is a better investment than a modearte restored bat 1.[depending on the price you pay of course]But the power of negotiation is in your hands.Forget our opinions and consider past results,who has out performed who? Thats right,the bat1 5.0...Of course i know you will make the right decision.

WATCH THE NOTES ON THAT MODERATE RESTORED LABEL!!

[batman_fan]

I agree 100% with action1kid, the Batman 5.0 unrestored is the better buy.

[Filter81]

Please consider, i have nothing to sell you!!

My opinion is unbiased.I own no bat #1s that ill sell you.

ill say it again, the 5.0 unrestored is a better investment than a modearte restored bat 1.[depending on the price you pay of course]But the power of negotiation is in your hands.Forget our opinions and consider past results,who has out performed who? Thats right,the bat1 5.0...Of course i know you will make the right decision.

 

Again I am going to state this is just my opinion. I know full well most forum members would certainly disagree with me. I am simply putting this out there for arguments' sake and to provide an additional viewpoint. For the record I believe my opinion is unbiased, same as yours. I don't get anything if he buys the 9.2 or the 5.0.. neither are my book. Am I biased because I own a large number of restored Golden age key issues? Maybe.. but I'd argue that I purchased all those restored books BECAUSE this has always been my opinion.. not the other way around. I put my money where my mouth is long before ever sharing my opinions with anybody.

 

I will admit btw that the 5.0 is probably the safer book. It will also be the easiest to sell. (Pretty much any comic collector who had the income would be interested in a Batman 1 5.0 Unrestored. And it does take the right buyer to come along and purchase a Batman 1 CGC 9.2 MP) But which one has outperformed the other? Please Actionkid.. you are so off-base on that one its scary!

 

I purchased a Batman 1 CGC 9.0 with Slight Professional restoration several years ago in a public auction. I paid "market value" at the time which was a little over $15,000. I sold it roughly a year later at a reasonable profit. The book was listed by someone on eBay a few months ago and sold for over $65,000! (Was this a slightly extreme example? Yes. I probably wouldn't have paid $65,000 for it. But I also listed a Batman 1 CGC 9.2 restored on eBay late last year, for which bidding reached over $36,000)

 

I purchased a Superman 1 CGC 9.0 with EP a few years ago also. At the time I was able to get it for slightly over overstreet 2.0 guide. By the time I sold it a few years later on eBay the bidding reached straight overstreet 6.0 guide value. (And it wasn't just one bidder, because it was reserve not met and I had quite a few people contact me after the sale trying to buy it) Also, as someone who buys restored Golden age keys, I can tell you these are not isolated incidents. It is not rare for me to now have to spend as much as 2x to 2.5x more than what it cost me several years ago to buy many of these books.

 

Just looking at guide value, what has Batman 1 gone up in 9.2 over the last 2 to 3 years? I don't have a guide in front of me but I would guess it has probably gone from around $90,000 to $140,000 in the last 3 years. So you have to take 20%-25% or whatever of that number well.. its still a $10,000-$12,500 increase! What has Batman 1 done in 5.0 in that same time frame? Has it even moved at all?

 

As far as actual sales I was able to find.. a Batman 1 CGC 6.5 Unrestored sold in April 2004 for $29,900. The same book sold again in January of 2005 for $30,000. (Not a great increase) In February 2004 a Batman 1 CGC 4.0 unrestored sold for $11,500. In 2005 so far, the average price paid for Batman 1 CGC 4.0 Unrestoreds is $11,250. Less than impressive if you ask me!

 

Is it possible some of the huge gains in restored comics I mentioned are a function of the restored market being so heavily damaged when CGC first came into existence and now finally starting to make a comeback? Yes. Is it likely there will be more uncertainty and ups and downs when discussing restored comics compared to unrestored comics? Yes. Are low to mid-grade unrestored comics currently outperforming restored comics? NOT A CHANCE!!!!

 

Anyway.. my 2 cents!

[action1kid]

hi filter..

I just dont see it the way you see it.I can list just as many examples countering what you have said in favor of unrestored books.Sure there are exceptions if you look really hard.Like you acknowledged,you are in the minority on this but with that said, i do appreciate your opinion,If i came on a little to strong i opologize[i took literally that you wanted to sell him a batman 1.]I didnt realize you meant it in jest].Lets just say i respectfully disagree with you on this one and i hope we can be friendly debaters and friends...call me peter..

[Filter81]

Hey Peter,

 

Thats actually what I was hoping for was a friendly debate. I definitely have my own opinion but I'm not trying to say mine is right and anyone else's is wrong. I have seen debates on this subject going on for years but was afraid to ever say too much. (I was buying restored books so cheap in '02 and '03 I didn't want to ruin a good thing by convincing others to start buying them too. The money I made selling them a few years later has allowed me to put together a really nice collection of rare, hard to find books that I otherwise would've never been able to afford)

 

I was pretty much joking when I offered Benz my Batman 1. I wouldn't step in between anyone else's sale. But at the same time I saw people talking about buying Batman 1s and figured I'd throw in a shameless plug, and mention to any board members who might be reading that I also have one for sale. ($16,250 if any board members are interested.)

 

All I meant by saying I don't have a bias is that in giving my opinion between the 9.2 and the 5.0 I have nothing to gain. Honestly, I was offered the 9.2 some time back and would've probably purchased it myself if I had the money at the moment. I've also seen the 5.0 available and was never particularly interested. Honestly, I'd be better off if the 5.0 were purchased as I still may purchase the 9.2 at some point in the future. But now that the days of purchasing restored comics for pennies on the dollar are a thing of the past, I couldn't resist jumping in w/ my thoughts on the subject.

[skybolt]

For me it all depends on the QP of the book. If the 5.0 copy is structurally sound but looks absloutley awful visually, then I'd rather have the nice looking 9.0 restored copy. However, if the 5.0 copy has a clean cover, but a couple of 1" tears on the back cover, then I'd rather have the unrestored copy. I can always get these tears sealed if I choose to and upgrade the book. An ugly looking 5.0 copy with dirt and stains will probably never reach 9.0 status unless massive restoration is undertaken.

[batman_fan]

I think there is a huge difference between the moderate restoration and slight restoration. I think a Batman 5.0 unrestored would mainatin its value in the long run, but a restored Batman 1 is pretty common and has a smaller group of people chasing it. Myself, the unrestored would be what I would go for.

[jkrk]

Hi all, from an investment prospective which is a better buy...a CGC 9.2 M® Batman 1 or a CGC 5.0 unrestored Batman 1. Its nice to see a Batman 1 looking like it came from a newstand.

 

 

I'm not sure I fully understand the question. Are you asking which book would be the better investment if they both were offered for the same price? If that was the question I would try to evaluate what grade the 5.0 could be restored to if the book was moderately restored. If the book couldn't grade a 9.2 minimum I would buy the restored book.

 

If the books were offered at different prices then the pricing would be the determining factor.

 

If your question is whether the restored market will continue to weaken vs. unrestored books? My view is that the gap will close somewhat, over time, but it's not a high cofidence call. Currently the gap remains wide as the number of buyers is far fewer. If prices of restored books begins to rise buyers resistance towards these books will begin to melt away.

[action1kid]

To get a little bit of perspective on this restored and unrestored batman topic,

there is an ext restored 9.2 detective # 27 sitting on metros site for 77k.I think ive seen it sitting there for about 5 weeks maybe more[its still there].A nm- 9.2 unrestored Detective 27 would probably go for over 500k and i think thats conservitve.Even at this huge markdown the restored book is not selling.I do not think the tide has turned at all for restored books ,so much so that cgc is getting involved to change the tide.[the creation of an all blue label for everyone.This would not be necessary unless restored books are doing very poorly[at this time].

The term investment grade is coined to reflect high grade[unrestored]books.

I have never heard the term[investment grade referred to a restored book.

I just dont see moderatly and ext restored books as investments[unless they are one of a kind items] which they are not.I do believe that a slightly restored book in a blue holder is an investment book however.What is good about restored books is that they put the unreachible books into more collectors hands and i quess that is a good thing.But as an investment grade book? cant agree.

In comparitive terms to previous discussions i would estimate a 5.0 unrestored detective 27 at auction getting 85 to 100k [of course over guide]a 5.0 on the census is an incredible 4th highest graded copy. A 5.0 is the 4th highest graded copy! Let me say that again,only a 5.0 unrestored teC 27 copy fetches the 4th highest graded detective 27 spot on the census.Its Batmans 1st appearence,its out right rare in any grade in unrestored condition.It is extremely rare in 5.0 and above all it all spells a great investment.Im talking about investing in books[holding them for 10 years.Filter is talking about flipping books,turning them over for a quick profit.[the equivelent of a dealer]There is a huge difference between flipping[a quick sale for profit by a dealer] and [investing]holding a book for the long term.And this is where there is a huge profit to be made[that only an unrestored book can give you.

There is a Big differnce here you must understand and it is that getting back to the batman 1, If you buy that bat 1 mod restored 9.2 and hold it for 10 years and than you buy that unrestored 5.0 batman 1 and hold it for ten years the unrestored batman 1 will DESTROY the restored bat 1 in mod resto at 9.2 in price appreciation.This is what i learned from my friend [the dentist]who collects the very best unrestored material.If you can,invest in unrestored and hold it for the long term[if you want big profits] You are a collector arnt you?You love your books dont you?So why wouldnt you hold them for the long term. so.......

Interested in an investment at its best than buy unrestored, as high a grade as you can afford.Hold it for the long term and you will certainly see that unrestored books are a GREAT investment with no comparison at all..Sure [just maybe a flipped restored bat1 just might make a better profit than an unrestored bat 1 in the [short term] But it will NEVER in the long term,never,never ,never..your not a dealer,your a collector.Forget this flipping stuff and go unrestored for the long term.you will cream the restored books as an investment EVERY SINGLE TIME! youll see........pete

[action1kid]

I am honestly willing to bet you that if you got a EXTENSIVELY restored batman#1 for FREE and held it for 20 years] Than bought a 5.0 unrestored batman 1 and paid TWICE guide for it] You would still blow away the restored book as an investment.

There is just no comparison at all between unrestored and restored books at all when you invest[long term].

[Forbush-Man]

Hi all, from an investment prospective which is a better buy...a CGC 9.2 M® Batman 1 or a CGC 5.0 unrestored Batman 1. Its nice to see a Batman 1 looking like it came from a newstand.

 

An unrestored book will always win out over a restored book. I would take the CGC 5.0 unless the 9.2 is a slight(P).

[action1kid]

This is a flip....

I purchased a Batman 1 CGC 9.0 with Slight Professional restoration several years ago in a public auction. I paid "market value" at the time which was a little over $15,000. I sold it roughly a year later at a reasonable profit

 

This is an investment...

I bought an unrestored low grade pep22 for 400 or so dollars in 1993.I sold it 8 years later in 2001 for 6700.00.

 

Its really important to understand the difference because this is the formula for the biggest gains.Unrestored and long term.

 

nuff said.....good night