Why Verification Of Sigs On Nonverifiable Books Is Such A Bad Idea 0

[Cat]

Warning: To watch this 'experiment' watch between about 2:10 and ending around the 7 minute mark. The rest is garbage. 

So, anyone like to comment on the video? 

The Vid 

 

[Namtak]

He bables too much.could be a fake to damage cbcs.said could.send the right one and just signe a wrong one and trash it,why am i saying that?because yellow verified label is because there was a certificate with it wich he did not talked about.no certificate is red label i know i own both so nuff said ! 

[mattn792]

On 8/14/2021 at 7:01 PM, Namtak said:

He bables too much.could be a fake to damage cbcs.said could.send the right one and just signe a wrong one and trash it,why am i saying that?because yellow verified label is because there was a certificate with it wich he did not talked about.no certificate is red label i know i own both so nuff said ! 

Verified go on yellow too:

https://www.cbcscomics.com/verified-signature-program

[Namtak]

On 8/14/2021 at 8:03 PM, mattn792 said:

Verified go on yellow too:

https://www.cbcscomics.com/verified-signature-program

OK you are right so why red label?i send a zeck sig with certificate that i was present for and got it back yellow certified with certificate send back with.....that book stays in my collection anyway it was a gift but then why red label,im puzuled ....

[mattn792]

On 8/14/2021 at 7:14 PM, Namtak said:

OK you are right so why red label?i send a zeck sig with certificate that i was present for and got it back yellow certified with certificate send back with.....that book stays in my collection anyway it was a gift but then why red label,im puzuled ....

Verified used to go on red, but I think they switched to all yellow a couple years ago.

[alwaysbronze]

it’s a good experiment and interesting result. his forged signature wasn’t even that good, it was missing a 2nd loop i think. i don’t own any cbcs yellow labels and now i will stay away from them.

[Randall Dowling]

On 8/14/2021 at 7:37 PM, alwaysbronze said:

i don’t own any cbcs yellow labels and now i will stay away from them.

FTFY

[Namtak]

On 8/14/2021 at 8:37 PM, alwaysbronze said:

it’s a good experiment and interesting result. his forged signature wasn’t even that good, it was missing a 2nd loop i think. i don’t own any cbcs yellow labels and now i will stay away from them.

Well witness yellow is a diferent thing,if there is no cgc witness i might take a cbcs witness whats the difference?i mean for sig and not grading,i prefer cgc grading but for a sketch or sig witness i might why not?

[Artboy99]

interesting experiment. The part that bothers me the most is he doesn't show himself cracking the book out of the slab. 

[Terry JSA]

It’s an interesting experiment. I only have 1 verified signature book from CBCS since it’s signed by Bob Kane. Other than that, if I want a signature for any of my books, I always get a witness no matter what. 

[OJ Pimpson]

Word is his next experiment is trying to get color touch through CGC 

[Bookery]

The truth no one wants to tell you is that it is impossible for even the best experts to 100% verify ANY solo signature without context or provenance... whether it's in a book, on a baseball, a 3x5 card, etc.  There simply isn't enough there that a forger, even fairly amateur ones, can't duplicate it.  Of course, the more antiquarian the signature, the trickier for forgers, because then you get into matching period inks, paper, etc.  I deal in rare books as well as comics, but in terms of signatures, I only deal in either (a) the publisher's own limited signed edition, or (b) ones in which I know the provenance.

[MatterEaterLad]

Interesting vid. 

I have a few verified slabs. They were all books purchased from the Gene Colan and Dave Cockrum estates, so I have no reason to doubt their authenticity.

I worry more about fake Kirby and Ditko sigs because they're less common and more desirable.

And I'm sure there are plenty of fake Stan Lee sigs by Keya Morgan or his daughter or whichever grifter was around Stan at the time.

[Terry JSA]

On 8/15/2021 at 10:38 AM, MatterEaterLad said:

Interesting vid. 

I have a few verified slabs. They were all books purchased from the Gene Colan and Dave Cockrum estates, so I have no reason to doubt their authenticity.

I worry more about fake Kirby and Ditko sigs because they're less common and more desirable.

And I'm sure there are plenty of fake Stan Lee sigs by Keya Morgan or his daughter or whichever grifter was around Stan at the time.

Ditko has for a very, very long time refused to sign comic books. He wasn’t interested in the past and as follower of Ayn Rand's Objectivism philosophy, he see's no reason why he should do anything he doesn't want to do. He was known to respond to letters, which he signed.

Any comic book with Ditko's signature is almost certainly forged. He wouldn’t sign comics. Not for a charity, not for a friend, not for the kid with cancer or any other story you are told about the comic you found for sale. I wouldn't even fully trust VSP on Ditko's signature.

[Qalyar]

On 8/15/2021 at 12:24 PM, Terry JSA said:

Ditko has for a very, very long time refused to sign comic books. He wasn’t interested in the past and as follower of Ayn Rand's Objectivism philosophy, he see's no reason why he should do anything he doesn't want to do. He was known to respond to letters, which he signed.

Any comic book with Ditko's signature is almost certainly forged. He wouldn’t sign comics. Not for a charity, not for a friend, not for the kid with cancer or any other story you are told about the comic you found for sale. I wouldn't even fully trust VSP on Ditko's signature.

There are fairly dependable accounts that he signed some books at a handful of conventions in the late 60s and early 70s, and that he signed a small number of Mr. A books somewhat later than that. However, at this point, absent ironclad provenance, I can't imagine how any legitimate Ditko books could be distinguished from the comparatively plentiful forgeries.

As noted upthread, signature authentication is not a reliable science; indeed, it is neither of those things.

[Buzzetta]

Let us not forget that former member 'Aliens' was both put in our HOS and action was taken by CBCS after he revealed that he had forged Ditko signatures on raw books here and had submitted Ditko signatures there to be verified and graded and sold. 

They would not say exactly what they did but they took action and hinted that he was banned from submitting any other books based on the information obtained by the serial numbers on the books he sold and the account associated with them. 

[Namtak]

On 8/15/2021 at 4:05 PM, Buzzetta said:

Let us not forget that former member 'Aliens' was both put in our HOS and action was taken by CBCS after he revealed that he had forged Ditko signatures on raw books here and had submitted Ditko signatures there to be verified and graded and sold. 

They would not say exactly what they did but they took action and hinted that he was banned from submitting any other books based on the information obtained by the serial numbers on the books he sold and the account associated with them. 

Good news at least,man it is more terrifying than i thought,thank god i dont have more than one and another with one witnessed and verifyed but that one has an understandable story to it so....glad i dont have more wont try that again.

[Namtak]

Scary stuff wont be able to sleep tonight

Edited August 15, 2021 by Namtak

[Terry JSA]

On 8/15/2021 at 1:49 PM, Qalyar said:

There are fairly dependable accounts that he signed some books at a handful of conventions in the late 60s and early 70s, and that he signed a small number of Mr. A books somewhat later than that. However, at this point, absent ironclad provenance, I can't imagine how any legitimate Ditko books could be distinguished from the comparatively plentiful forgeries.

As noted upthread, signature authentication is not a reliable science; indeed, it is neither of those things.

Yes, he did attend a few comic conventions but the only documented one seems to be NYCC back in 1964. While there are legit signatures out there like Mr. A and Ditko Package, it can be hard to differentiate a real signature from a fake one since he didn’t like signing things.

Edited August 15, 2021 by Terry JSA

[kav]

Unwitnessed sigs are pretty much useless absent the rare ironclad provenance.  "verifying" them is in my opinion a waste of money.  True signature experts give a percentage.  "I am 85% sure this is a real sig based on all the elements".  Absent this percentage on CBCS slabs and the credentials of whoever verified it you have in my opinion absolutely nothing.