Fifty most influential comics... according to NCS? 1 1

[BanjerD]

I also would argue that the two manga contributions (#40,41) would not be as "influential" as Lone Wolf and Cub from the 1970s and Astro Boy from the 1960s (and perhaps later on One Piece / Naruto / Dragon Ball).

[kav]

On 8/16/2021 at 7:11 PM, BanjerD said:

I also would argue that the two manga contributions (#40,41) would not be as "influential" as Lone Wolf and Cub from the 1970s and Astro Boy from the 1960s (and perhaps later on One Piece / Naruto / Dragon Ball).

did you see the lonely wolf and cube movie?

[BanjerD]

On 8/17/2021 at 11:30 AM, kav said:

did you see the lonely wolf and cube movie?

There were two different television series and about 6 movies released.

[kav]

On 8/16/2021 at 7:45 PM, BanjerD said:

There were two different television series and about 6 movies released.

I only knew abt one I saw back in the 80s.

[Kromak]

On 8/16/2021 at 2:11 AM, BanjerD said:

I also would argue that the two manga contributions (#40,41) would not be as "influential" as Lone Wolf and Cub from the 1970s and Astro Boy from the 1960s (and perhaps later on One Piece / Naruto / Dragon Ball).

I totally agree about Lone Wolf, Cub and Astro Boy, but I guess in 1999 there was very little information about manga available in the US or most western world.

If the list was made today, the last three should have been in it, no doubts.

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by Kromak

[Kromak]

The absence of Disney, Carl Barks and Gottfredson stuff is preposterous. They are BY FAR the most popular US comics outside US. At least in the comic book format. I would say its characters have by far the greatest readership in the comic book format of all time.

Other probably unforgivable absence is the Phantom. I wouldn't be surprised if he was more read than Superman/Batman through story, worldwide.

Other possible US characters that could have been on it is the Little Lulu, X-men and FF. Possibly replacing Cap.

The absence of Tex or anything Bonelli is also preposterous, although understandable from a US list.

 

[kav]

On 8/17/2021 at 6:49 AM, Kromak said:

The absence of Disney, Carl Barks and Gottfredson stuff is preposterous. They are BY FAR the most popular US comics outside US. At least in the comic book format. I would say its characters have by far the greatest readership in the comic book format of all time.

Other probably unforgivable absence is the Phantom. I wouldn't be surprised if he was more read than Superman/Batman through story, worldwide.

Other possible US characters that could have been on it is the Little Lulu, X-men and FF. Possibly replacing Cap.

The absence of Tex or anything Bonelli is also preposterous, although understandable from a US list.

 

I think we have to define what we mean by influential.  If we mean important in the sense they changed society then I dont see any of these books qualify.  If we mean important to collectors, again, none of these books qualify.  If we mean well written stories and well developed characters, again, no.
If you mean sheer readership then maybe.  Not sure how well read the phantom for instance is, I've never read a phantom comic and I've read a huge variety of comics since I was 8 years old.

[Namtak]

On 8/16/2021 at 9:53 PM, kav said:

Agree.  Yellow Kid was abt as influential on comics as my bald headed granny.

She was that influencial?!wow!was she mayor or something?

[Namtak]

On 8/16/2021 at 12:14 PM, aardvark88 said:

I am sure Obadiah or TMNT was # 51. 'Les Smurfs' is more influential than the popular storytelling of 'Lucky Luke' (France, Vietnam) though.

Lucky luke was from belgium morris drew those and it is schtroumph. I met morris when i was 5 a very polite and formal man,strange accent for a 5 year old born near montreal but thats belgium for you great memories 

[Lazyboy]

On 8/17/2021 at 8:49 AM, Kromak said:

The absence of Disney, Carl Barks and Gottfredson stuff is preposterous. They are BY FAR the most popular US comics outside US. At least in the comic book format. I would say its characters have by far the greatest readership in the comic book format of all time.

Other probably unforgivable absence is the Phantom. I wouldn't be surprised if he was more read than Superman/Batman through story, worldwide.

Other possible US characters that could have been on it is the Little Lulu, X-men and FF. Possibly replacing Cap.

The absence of Tex or anything Bonelli is also preposterous, although understandable from a US list.

 

"Fifty most influential comics..."

[Ken Aldred]

On 8/17/2021 at 2:49 PM, Kromak said:

The absence of Disney, Carl Barks and Gottfredson stuff is preposterous. They are BY FAR the most popular US comics outside US. At least in the comic book format. I would say its characters have by far the greatest readership in the comic book format of all time.

Missed that, and you’re quite right.

If you’re putting choices such as Herriman, Schulz, Watterson, (Jeff) Smith on there, how can you leave out Carl Barks ?

Edited August 18, 2021 by Ken Aldred

[Kromak]

On 8/17/2021 at 7:57 PM, kav said:

I think we have to define what we mean by influential.  If we mean important in the sense they changed society then I dont see any of these books qualify.  If we mean important to collectors, again, none of these books qualify.  If we mean well written stories and well developed characters, again, no.
If you mean sheer readership then maybe.  Not sure how well read the phantom for instance is, I've never read a phantom comic and I've read a huge variety of comics since I was 8 years old.

1)I am not sure how "changed society" should be defined and if comics  indeed did that, so I don't agree or disagree here.

2)False, at least for collector World Wide, more or less true for US collectors, if one discounts FF, x-men and perhaps Disney stuff

3)I totally and completely disagree. Barks stuff easily trashs 99.9% of anything belonging to the super hero stuff, I would saw. Kirby/Lee FF far above the average super hero stuff of its time, as Claremont/Cockrum or Claremont/"insert random artist here" for its time period. Average Boneli stuff or average Little lulu (from what I read so far), above average super-hero stuff.

4)Quoting wikipedia. "In 1966, King Features stated that The Phantom was being published in 583 newspapers worldwide.^[1] At its peak, the strip was read by over 100 million people daily.^[2][". Even in comic book format, I would say that the world wide readership would put him among the most read characters of hero/adventure genre.

[Kromak]

On 8/18/2021 at 4:30 AM, Lazyboy said:

"Fifty most influential comics..."

Depends as influential is defined. If you mean to influence the creation of similar characters, or to establish a genre (or change it), its debatable and very difficult to be sure. But between super-hero stuff, the original FF run and Chris Claremont on X-men would easily be on it.

[kav]

On 8/19/2021 at 2:42 PM, Kromak said:

1)I am not sure how "changed society" should be defined and if comics  indeed did that, so I don't agree or disagree here.

2)False, at least for collector World Wide, more or less true for US collectors, if one discounts FF, x-men and perhaps Disney stuff

3)I totally and completely disagree. Barks stuff easily trashs 99.9% of anything belonging to the super hero stuff, I would saw. Kirby/Lee FF far above the average super hero stuff of its time, as Claremont/Cockrum or Claremont/"insert random artist here" for its time period. Average Boneli stuff or average Little lulu (from what I read so far), above average super-hero stuff.

4)Quoting wikipedia. "In 1966, King Features stated that The Phantom was being published in 583 newspapers worldwide.^[1] At its peak, the strip was read by over 100 million people daily.^[2][". Even in comic book format, I would say that the world wide readership would put him among the most read characters of hero/adventure genre.

as i said if by influential you mean 'most read' then phantom maybe ok.  as far as barks and little lulu trashing 99.9% of super hero stuff all I can say is cool story bro.

[Ken Aldred]

On 8/19/2021 at 10:42 PM, Kromak said:

1)I am not sure how "changed society" should be defined and if comics  indeed did that, so I don't agree or disagree here.

Have any comics actually had that profound an effect?  
 

Relevance writing incorporated and highlighted social issues of the day, which is not the same as actually stimulating change in the world at large.

Perhaps we’re flattering ourselves if we believe we’re that influential.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Ken Aldred

[Cat]

On 8/21/2021 at 1:18 AM, Ken Aldred said:

Have any comics actually had that profound an effect?  
 

Relevance writing incorporated and highlighted social issues of the day, which is not the same as actually stimulating change in the world at large.

Perhaps we’re flattering ourselves if we believe we’re that influential.

 

Would it be fair to say they were the first entity that really embraced the concept of a shared universe? Yeah, DC had one, but it was very surface level for decades and decades, realistically. Marvel made it a point of pride upfront, and I can't think of any other to do it first. Possibly the Universal Monsters, but I'm a but sketchy on how well they all fit in together, any direct crossovers vs the indirect, the ones they had vs sharing a protagonist in respective films, eg 'Abbott And Costello VS Frankenstein/The Mummy'). 

[Kromak]

On 8/19/2021 at 9:46 PM, kav said:

 as far as barks and little lulu trashing 99.9% of super hero stuff all I can say is cool story bro.

99# is a generic term that means "the vast majority" of it, but if you disagree If you disagree, to say " cool story bro" does not help the discussion.

[kav]

On 10/18/2021 at 5:12 PM, Kromak said:

99# is a generic term that means "the vast majority" of it, but if you disagree If you disagree, to say " cool story bro" does not help the discussion.

The vast majority of people eat at McDonalds rather than 3 star restaurants.  That does not mean McDonalds is 'trashing' those restaurants.

[Kromak]

On 10/18/2021 at 12:21 AM, kav said:

The vast majority of people eat at McDonalds rather than 3 star restaurants.  That does not mean McDonalds is 'trashing' those restaurants.

So  are you saying that super-hero comic books are the comic equivalent of 3 star restaurants?

Edited October 19, 2021 by Kromak

[kav]

On 10/18/2021 at 5:29 PM, Kromak said:

So  are you saying that super-hero comic books are the comic equivalent of 3 star restaurants?

absolutely.  Thats why they command top dollar.